Elite / Frontier Why Elite 4 could be "Bad for Business" at this point

[m1rkd1rk]

I would like to voice my thoughts about Elite 4.

There are a handful of members (including me) registered on this board, who remember the classic Elite games and who will agree the Elite 2 was the best game from the lot. For me, Frontier Elite 2 is a cherised memory from my very early childhood, more recently I have bought the pc version so that I can enjoy the full game. I first played it when I was 3 (I was born in 1990 and it was released in 1993) I could barely point and click, in fact I have been pointing and clicking for as long as I can remember.

From my experience and knowledge of the game design business, I think releasing Elite 4, might be bad for business if it released mainstream straight away.

I am a member of "The Game Creators" forums. I am there because I eagerly awaited "FPS Creator" I was registered there for nearly the entire duration of FPS Creators development, I preordered it as soon as I could because in my eyes it was a very could piece of software that could do alot and it was my gateway into game design. At that point, the forum had polite, courteous members who would actually research any problems they had with the software. Over time after the software was released I started noticing a "change in the crowds" and many of the veteran members of that board will agree with me very much. We now have young spineless teenage little brats. They havent even read the first word in the manual and they make very rude posts demanding an awnser, even though the problem was probably solved a few threads ago. I no longer go to that board because I dont like the new people that have ruined it. In fact - I no longer use FPS Creator.

FPS Creator was released mainstream, it appears in high street stores everywhere now, especially PC World.

I fear this could happen to Elite 4. The new people on the TGC forums have given FPS Creator bad publicity.

Now, everyone here whos played Frontier Elite 2 or even the first one will say that all the Elite games require a certain amount of intelligence to play. Even more that FPS Creator. Now I dont like to say things like this but if a teenager whos never played and Elite game in his life picked it up and purchased it out of curiosity, probably wouldnt have a clue about how to play it or what its about etc. So he would come to these boards and obliterate everything with "oMg I fIrED mY LaSErS aND pAwLeEse CaMe AfteR Me", I would not like to see this happen here because this board is probably one of my only connections with true elite fans. My dad is also an elite fan but he pops in and out of it. I have recently got back into Frontier Elite 2, im just trying to get DosBOX to work and I'll be fine.

So if it does get released mainstream, I only hope to god some nitwit doesent ruin it. Elite is very sacred to me. Elite has always had an "Adult" fanbase (in a good way! ) mainly because the last one came out in 1995.

Well - comment away, I look forward to reading the replys!

 

[DeLeiros]

Actually, I reckon it would be a huge business success if they git it right. You talk about new people getting involved and ruining it...thats just sentimentalism thats got nothing to do with the business issues, and in fact would be a very good thing from a buesiness point of view, as the game couldn't survive based on the old timer support. What Frontier have got is a well known brand, which would immeadiately break through the gaming ice, just for that reason. And from that starting point they could gain a lot of new support, if and only if they doing something truly original with it.

Although I do take your point from an 'ol timer' perpective. Welcoming new people on baord can sometimes ruin the feel of something. Had a similar experience with a different forum...but frankly its the game I'm concerned about most, not anyone else who would be playing.

 

[Kipper]

I dont think the game would be mass appeal to our spelling-challenged friends, it'll be more like a simulation than an instant-gratification console type.

Besides, forums tend to be self regulating when you have enough people, because 'popular' opinion will decide whats acceptable or not, and if people stupidly spam boards, they will not be responded to, and they will soon become bored....

 

[m1rkd1rk]

They wont be able to play the game anyway, it takes a certain amount of brain cells to play Elite, not like those run of the mill FPS's!

Elite system requirements:
5 GHz CPU
3 GB Ram
7 GB Hard disk space
52x CD-Rom drive
Direct X 15 Graphics card
At least 11,000 braincells at time of play

Bog standard fps game requirements:
1 ghz CPU
512mb RAM
1 GB hard disk space
32x cd rom drive
Direct X 9 Graphics card
No braincells required!

 

[Moodles]

What made Frontier: Elite II impossible for me to learn how to play, was I didn't have any documentation on what do to (docking, taking off etc), much patience and no idea what each hud thing did or meant. Luckily I had someone to teach me the game, to a point where I was working for the military delivering things, and doing the Barnards Star <-> Sol run (robots, computers & luxury good).

What Elite IV really needs is a simple tutorial mode, to teach the game (icons, abit about trading, exports, imports, illegal.. maybe some subtle hints, hinting normal shields aren't able to provide protection against a planet's atmosphere if it has one), but not to the point of spoon feeding. Shooting at a space station, taking off without clearance should be learnt the hard way

Things like jettisoning cargo, should have a warning like "Jettisoning cargo is illegal, do you want to continue?" with an optional "Do not show me this again" tickbox.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Things like jettisoning cargo, should have a warning like "Jettisoning cargo is illegal, do you want to continue?" with an optional "Do not show me this again" tickbox.

I do hope you're joking; getting a warning before doing something illegal (firing your lasers while landed or whatever) would be plain daft. Better would be have the gazetteer (or a short story, if they include them) give hints about what the galaxy-wide laws are.

If anyone wants to be hand-held through their game, they are better off waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Steve]

Things like jettisoning cargo, should have a warning like "Jettisoning cargo is illegal, do you want to continue?" with an optional "Do not show me this again" tickbox.

Real commanders don't jettison. They bribe the police

 

[waitingfordavid]

someone making silly posts on this website does not affect the financial viability of the game.
proof?
does the the posting of intelligent posts make it "more" financially viable?
and if so couldnt anyone just post incredibly intelligent and insightful posts on a webpage somewhere to boost said viability?

is there a webpage somewhere i could post that would boost my own financial viability?
or make my hair grow back?

 

[m1rkd1rk]

Please keep to topic. Thankyou.

 

[Marcus_UK]

I like what you are saying and understand where you are coming from . You are in the minority for you age group as to those who have played understood and enjoyed the games we know as Elite.

Fair play to you though for coming on and stating your beleifs. Whilst many may not accept them I can see where you are coming from and hope this not to be the case. Elites fan base should be enough to see the game to the top spot in the charts and to have longevity for a long while yet hopefully the guys at frontier ( come on they named the company after the game ( or vice versa)) What more do we need to say.

I have spent more time playing Elite games than I have any other game. That is likely true of many other users aswell.

 

[Kipper]

Any game that breaks the mould can only be a good thing.

So many games are released that are just clones of something the marketing fairies thought would sell well.

I dont blame developers, by and large they write what their publisher tells them to write, so I applaud Frontier and any other devs that want to make great NEW games, rather than just rehash ones we've all seen before.

The only exception to that is when a game takes a genre another leap forward. I've not played an RTS in ages, but i'm looking forward to Supreme Commander

Elite was brand new, Frontier/FFE leaped the genre forward, and while others have tried, none have really beaten it for playability (though its been well usurped graphically and feature wise) -- the other games just haven't had the X (not that X) factor.

 

[Jammy]

..the only problem with the argument is.... the 'x' series of games. They've proved ppl still want this type of game and it is quite successful. There was also 'Freelancer'- a bit to repetitive and arcady for me, and of course 'Eve-online' which is hugely popular(though not as much as ultima online and WoW, hell, some ppl will only play games if they've got elve and orcs). There's always a market, and you can't not release a game, just because you deem most ppl to be thicker than yourself.

 

[Kipper]

You say that, but todays games represent multi million pound investments by the makers.

You're not going to spend millions on something unless you're 90% sure you're going to make money on it...!

Many developers get into writing games because they WANT to, but the money men will ultimately pull the strings and decide what can and cannot be made, based on whether the risk is worth it. Making a great new type of game might prove to be a best seller, but what if it doesnt?

 

[Hawk]

Elite...

Morning everyone,

I joined the forum yesterday. It's good to see so many enthusiasts around. I played the original Elite on the BBC B. It was, and still is, my favourite game. I have been absent from the gaming community for several years (with the odd incusion into it at Christmas time). I never really got into the Elite sequals. I tried FFE but the early versions were so badly bugged, even after several patches, I finally gave it up.

I have also given up my career to return to education and complete a degree course, so I should have a lot more free time on my hands. I have enjoyed your comments about Elite and look forward to the next installment of the game. In the meantime I was considering getting a copy of FFE to run. Does any one know how to get it working through DOS box? Your help would be appreciated.

Hawk

 

[zmurf]

Just make the game really realistic, with real spaceship controll (no fighter airplane controll in space). And no massive colourfull nebula in space that dosent exist. Space should be black... with maybe some fade white pixels in the background being other stars (that you actually can fly to if you only give it enough time).

If you make the game this way all small script kiddies will be bored to /dev/null and wont play the game and wont bother us Elite/Frontier veterans.

And i will be happy beyond believes.

 

[VersionFour]

If people wanted to play it they would learn, no one who played it first time round knew how to play it did they. Personally I think people who have played it before would buy it and then those who hadn't played it before would see it and want it.

Look at other games, football managing games, they have big followings and new people buy it each time and there certainly not the easiest pick 'em up and go games. Formula One managing games, anything like that, there all the same.

They could add an arcade mode to Elite 4 allowing multi player options and person V computer combat fights, but make it a seperate part so we can all carry on enjoying the game we love so much.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Just make the game really realistic, with real spaceship controll (no fighter airplane controll in space). And no massive colourfull nebula in space that dosent exist. Space should be black... with maybe some fade white pixels in the background being other stars (that you actually can fly to if you only give it enough time).

If you make the game this way all small script kiddies will be bored to /dev/null and wont play the game and wont bother us Elite/Frontier veterans.

And i will be happy beyond believes.

See I'd have to dissagree with you, not so much about the controlls or the nebula (Darkstar One certainly thrashed and killed that theme) but the game must be engaging, and "us Elite/Frontier veterans" still need that. If the game is not MMO then what difference does it make who plays it, and to put it into perspective, I was around 8-10 years old when I first played Elite, so I don't feel like there should be some sort of an ageist exclusion.

Flying to the stars, sure, doing it in real time - thanks but no thanks. Alpha Centauri is 4.3 light years away, and I don't have that much patience.

I agree that space should have a desolation, but there is a happy medium to be met, space is allowed to have it's beauty.

Bringing the thread back to subject - I also have a similar feeling as the OP (as in Elite and Frontier evokes some very fond feelings) 'BUT' the reality of the situation is that if you want the wonderful game that you dream about, there has to be some commercial realisation about it. Designing a game that only appeals to the old school would be foolish in the extreme. As much as Elite4 is a labour of love, it is also a commercial venture and one that has potential to go down in history - Should it just be remembered by the minority of people that played it in their youth 20 years ago? Elite was one of the few things good to come out of the 80s surely others should have the opportunity to enjoy the game even if it is without the nostelgia that we 'veterans' will have for it.

There is a fine line with creating a game between realism and playability, and I think soulely pandering to the 'space/physics geeks' would be a mistake, I believe that there will need to be a level of immediacy in the gameplay so that I can pick it up for an hour and still get some level of satisfaction from that time.