Why Elite has pushed me away

Mobius Oblidus

M
So. Oh wonderful Frontier Forum community, please help me in this - my hour of need.

I love this game.

Really, I do.

*But* - at the end of most play sessions, it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time. Like I've completely wasted the hours I've just put in. Like it's a time sink with no purpose, worse than a grind. Why?

Well, it's not because the missions currently on offer are stale and boring, and endlessly recycled. I can get over that. More content is on the way. I can wait.

It's not because trading is the *only* way to make decent money (it makes mining and bounty hunting look like laughable wastes of play time when cr/hour are looked at in any detail whatsoever. Plus, almost no risk.). Or because trading bores me to tears - and usually forces me to take a nap after an hour of trade runs. But, If I want a better ship... better get trading.

Why is Elite so flawed? Because it takes away everything you've worked for, at the slightest provocation - and most of the time, that loss doesn't even make sense.

If I want to experience senseless loss, then I'll just keep living real life thanks! A game should be for adventure, excitement, relaxation, escapism... Not senseless designed-in pain.

At least in Dark Souls (another franchise that I love) death is built into the system - it *expects* you to fail, and so prepares you for repeated loss. You also don't start back at square one. Sometimes in Elite after suffering a setback, it's worse than being back at square one. You're in DEBT.

Dwarf Fortress is another game that I adore, and have sunk hundreds upon hundreds of hours into. (DF's learning curve also makes the learning curve in Elite look like a five star catered holiday, with poolside bar service and a stunning a la carte restaurant experience thrown in for free.) Failing in DF is *FUN*. You are meant to fail. It's all part of the game.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but you're not meant to die in Elite, are you? If you are, then that's a whole other meta-level of opacity that the designers have thrown in there! The game doesn't kill you in a way that says: "Now, you won't do that again will you?" or "That was wrong, because of this, try again." It Says "Hai! I KILL YOU NOW!" and does it again. And again. And *again*. And when you die... you lose everything. (Unless you're a Gamma player who is now a space bazillionaire and the loss of anything below an Anaconda is just a bit of weekend fun for you.)

Please let me try and explain. I don't have much free time: long hours working, family time, etc. Two hours of game time is precious. I can maybe do a mission. Or three or four trade runs. I earn money slowly. And money is the only thing of value to currently be gained in Elite - besides skill.
When I play a game - any game - I'd like to get something out of it. Something worth keeping, that I can take away. A great memory. In-game progress. An achievement to savour (No, not like Steam Achievements. Actual 'I did that' achievements.) Instead, here was this afternoon's game session:

In Aulin, I take a kill mission: 150K credits on the line. Great. I jump into my Cobra, and set out. After an hour and a half containing twenty-six USS explorations, where I find a mixture of traders, funeral processions, cargo that it's not worth picking up, and 120K credits worth of NPCs with bounties, I find the Elite Anaconda that I've been sent to kill: Sivard.

I KWS him, and the duel begins. We have an epic duel for twenty minutes. My shield cells are spent, but he's down to 3% hull.
As he begins to power up his FSD to make a break for it, the Feds arrive to lend a helping hand. Wooohoo!
As I boost after Sivard to make the killing blow, some dumbass NPC Fed flies directly in front of my Beam Laser.
Suddenly. I'm WANTED.
The three Fed vessels (Two Vipers and an Eagle), turn on me instantly. An Allied commander, who is a Chief Petty Officer in the Federal Navy, the victor of hundreds of battles against the Federation's enemies and criminal elements, and a respected ally of two dozen Federation aligned communities. No loss of immersion there... This makes total sense. (NOT)
As I try to evade Fed missile salvos, Sivard escapes. Sivard: a freaking pirate general with a 70Kcr bounty on his head that has most likely murdered hundreds of innocents and runs a system's worth of crime syndicates.
Twenty seconds later, as I try to escape in a damaged ship - I am destroyed.

I lose my ship: a Cobra with modules enough to make it worth 4 Million credits. Ouch. Even with the cash that I had spare, I'm now almost at max loan.
I lose my collected bounties: 360k credits worth, as on top of the money earned playing this afternoon, there were over 230k credits worth of Alliance and Empire bounties that I hadn't yet wanted to travel over 100+ LY to collect.
I lose the mission bounty: 150k credits, as I don't have another two hours of play time to track Sivard down again.

I respawn.

Even after all that, I'm lucky enough to have another ship. A Lakon Type-6, stripped down with no turrets and no unnecessary modules to allow maximum cargo space and jump distance. I do use a shield though. I'm not an idiot.

I sell my precious Cobra for seed money (Basically selling my *fun* in the game, as I currently see trading as a tasteless necessity along the path to enjoyment.), and begin my favourite trade run. It's short, quick, and nets 100k profit for each leg, which can earn 300k in an hour or so. *Yawn*. Great. Better get on with it then so I can have some fun later (WHAT?! Why am I playing this game?! Fun *later*?!)

On the way back from the second run, with a hold full of 98 tons of gold, I'm docking with an Orbis starport. As I make my way through the slot at a reasonable speed of 75 m/s, an NPC Asp decides to try and pass through the slot from behind me. It runs straight into the back of my Lakon, and causes me to smack into the side of the starport at an angle. My shield pops, and the Lakon is taken down to 42% hull strength. Thank *INSERT EXPLETIVE* I shelled out for military grade composite armour...

However. I am now stuck. I don't know how. I can't see where I am from the limited cockpit view. Maybe I'm stuck just before the slot of the starport? I try to thrust, forwards, backwards, up, down, sideways. Nothing. Some vibration, and lots of proximity warnings.

Then the starport informs me. I have thirty seconds to stop blocking the slot, or else I shall be destroyed.

Long story short, I'm destroyed by the starport for being rear-ended by an imbecilic NPC Asp. It would seem that the computer systems in Elite would feel right at home in both 2001: A Space Odyssey and the pen & paper RPG 'Paranoia' (look it up.)

I lose my ship: A simple Lakon Type 6 with basic modules and top grade armour. 2 Million credits. However. My insurance can't cover the cost. I lose the ship and get offered a Sidewinder. Also a complimentary 200K debt. Brilliant.
I lose my cargo: 1,005,088 credits worth of gold. Now this hurts. It was all the money that I had. Please oh please Frontier - let us insure our cargo!

So there you go. Two incidents that weren't my fault in the slightest.
The end of a month's hard work and free time.

I'm in a Sidewinder, with 200K debt, and million missions that I can't even attempt.

Oh wonderful community of the Frontier Forums: please tell me why I should swallow my rage and keep playing this rough diamond!

TL;DR I'm mad. Really, really mad. And sad too. Really, really sad.
 

Lobstris

Lobstris
Because how many other space games are their out there with a 1-to-1 scale galaxy, great graphics and sound effects?
.
However, in the first instance you did shoot a cop, irresponsible flying on his part, irresponsible laser use on yours? I've just learnt to let things go when the Feds show up - or be VERY careful when I shoot (as it should be IMHO).
.
In the second instance, I do feel for you - I lost a T9 during the beta for the same reason (so no real loss for me, but you're not alone in the experience). FWIW The AI dev (Sarah Jane Avory) has said that the docking computer and avoidance tactics of the AI in stations are getting some love in 1.2. Small consolation I know but...
 

Hadron-Higgs-Boson

Hadron-Higgs-Boson
idiot mechanics are just there as a result of bad ideas, bad advice and a lack of common sense. now the game has been out for a while we can hope FD start to realise that some things just make no sense at all. Walk away, come back again and go for it. This sort of rubbish will get fixed :)
 

Jynnan Tonnyk

J
You're right, you're dead right.

A very similar thing happened to me and it's soul-destroying. I really feel your pain and it took quite a bit for me to decide to soldier on and try again.

Unfortunately also, there will be some coming on here soon who will laugh at you. Try to ignore them.

Take a break, then come back tomorrow, or the day after and try again if you have the stomach for it; I doubt the game mechanics will change any time soon, but maybe they will in time.

Again, I feel sorry for your loss.
 

Devil's Refugee

Devil's Refugee
I've done stupid things like boosting from a station with a cargo full of Gold and getting caught in the grills and losing it all. ED is harsh and unforgiving but for some reason I want to give it the finger and prove it wrong, I can't be broken. The amount of times I've faced a situation in life that's gone down to the wire and I've come out the other end reminds me of playing Elite. Tenacity is what you need playing this game. I feel your pain, I'd love to have cargo insurance too, I've stared at the "Your ship has been destroyed" screen with sheer incredulity and shock but there is always that piece of the rage that says "No, f YOU" and I log straight back in.

I'm also watching Inception just now, and trying to find an analogy that fits lol - Elite is a game within a game. You die, but you only wake up one level higher up and you never know just how many levels there are left....
 

Crazy_Mayes

Crazy_Mayes
Wow, you have have had it rough. You should take a break from the game, go to the beach and relax a little. I mean what's the worst that could happen?

Jaws_large.jpg
 

Phier

Phier
And then you have players like me, and there are a lot of us, who find the difficulty laughable, money making simple (pre-post nerf whatever), and the danger pretty non-existent. Elite pushed me away because I'm bored with how easy it is. I have to gimp myself and my brain to make it interesting. Post nerf I can make, in a clipper (though it could be a type-7 too), about 600k every 12 minutes doing a rather average cargo run, without a single threat. In a type-6, which is very easy to reach just basic bounty hunting, I could make 300k in the same time. Still pretty damn good.

STUDY the game, learn it, and then you will find your deaths, bugs, weirdness or otherwise, are easily avoidable.
 

sfajardo

S
you need to learn when to abandon a mission. After weeks I lost my ASP hunting a Anaconda, clean save ( I was mad). After 3 weeks now I can buy again a ASP. Tip: Don't play too much, think in Months to get what you want ( Ana, Phyton, etc.) Enjoy the game slowly.
 

bigmuthatrukka

B
Engaging in any activity without having the buy back is your own fault. I'm not sniping, I did exactly the same and went from 19mil of asp to a sidewinder. As for the docking, unfortunate, but maybe you should have docked quicker. But I have a degree of empathy with your sentiment. All I'll say is on the road to recovery I assembled a viper for combat, a type 6 for trade and an adder for exploration. Smaller ships, less cost, same fun. And you can put them together in bitesize chunks. I think wings will be the making of multiplayer.
 

Drunk Si

D
It must be pretty annoying to get totally wiped out but I guess if you ever find yourself in a similar situation you'll settle for doing smaller runs in your type 6 whilst you build up a safe insurance + cargo dosh buffer before going the whole hog and shipping 100 odd tons of gold. And you'll always look sideways at the NPCs as you dock. This setback will ultimately make you a much better pilot and a shrewder businessman. You've been burned on a crucible; distilled down into the most ELITE version of yourself possible.
 

malkythealky

M
Sorry to hear that bud :( you must feel really annoyed. I've had similar 'stupid' things happen to me where i've lost the past couple of hours work resulting in getting annoyed and closing the game down and continuing the next day. Sounds like you lost months though....

I'd probably not play it again for a month or so if that were me.

I do think that FD needs to sort out accidental friendly fire. Surly it would make more sense just too incur the fine without the wanted status. It's stupid the way that you can have a 250C fine but everyone wants to take you out like you were the universe's most wanted. If you damage someones ship by mistake just send them the repair cost.
 

Nutter

Nutter
Kudos for putting up with trade Grinding and Missions - I did trading to get a ASP to explore, I never enjoyed the trading, I did try to earn by mining but, lets be honest, Mining is currently , with it's "It looks like you are scooping another ton of metal, do you want it?" Which drove me crazy after 40 tons.

With so many pew pew games out there the last thing I wanted to do, was do it again, then all the nerf wars started, because little sammy got blown up by a bigger badder ship, so the balance hammer of doom came down on anything dangerous.

So that leaves exploring, they can't nerf that, they can't tell me where to go, I can go where I want (apart from the sections reserved for aliens), so I'm going sight seeing round my galaxy, something I will never do before I die in real life. Also keeps me away from all the strife waiting for the content to be fleshed out :)
 
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