Engineers Why explorers are always get the worst end of the stick?

[The Law]

For purposes of this thread, let's divide playerbase into three roles:
Pew-pew guy - likes to shoot everything up, because, give me biggar guns
Space trucker guy - has a big dreams of running a trading empire, does not mind jumping repetitevely around systems, with minor illusion of danger from pirates
Space adventurer a.k.a. Explorer = just wants to tour galaxy and go on sight-seeing

Now let's go through version history

Community goals
Pew pew guy - cool, now I can either shoot people doing those or shoot people and do those goals
Space trucker - nice, now I can trade and hoard stuff while filling a quota of community goal
Adventurer - Ok...I guess?

Wings
Pew pew guy - wow, so cool. Now I can pew pew with guys who like pew pew, so we can pew pew more
Space trucker - oh nice, now I can hire guys and team up to protect me and form a convoy
Adventurer - Exploring in wings? Oh lord, why....

Powerplay
Pew pew guy - yeah, shoot more stuff to please some people who will give me biggar guns and power
Space trucker - woah, so if I trade with this guy, I will earn even more money
Adventurer - *grabs "Will explore for food" cardboard sign*...anyone?

CQC
Pew pew guy - right on, commander!
Space trucker - guess I could give it a shot so I can become better at defending myself
Adventurer - *snores*

Oh the shiny 2.0 Horizons
Pew pew guy - cool, I can land on those planets and settlements, they will give me more missions to kill stuff and pew pew
Space trucker - ok, now I can trade with space station AND planets, so g cool
Adventurer - Yay, we can finally la...wait, so you want me to drive around, shoot rocks and collect canisters of tea? Guys.../facepalm

Engineers
Pew pew guy - those engineers are cool, bettar lazers
Space trucker - now I can deliver stuff to those guys to and they may even improve my ship, win win
Adventurer - Scan wakes, explore USS (at least now I can see if there are 3 Type-9s waiting to devour me, tired yay) and mine asteroids. Sigh...

When will there be proper patch that will mainly focus on the explorers? Other roles have plenty mechanics already built around them, while explorers really get nothing for their exploring

 

[Fangwulf]

Well, exploring is a rather simple mechanic that has been there since the start. What sort of improvements do you want? With engineers we can at least get a slightly better FSD. But really the reason I go exploring is for the sights, and the graphics update was a huge bonus, making the universe look even better. So, in a way this patch did have stuff for explorers. Although, I've explored so much that I wore myself out and the combat AI kicked me out of the game, and I don't have any plans to start playing again (maybe when I upgrade my PC sometime). So I see what you mean, not a lot of the updates feel worth-while for explorers but it is hard for Frontier to give us something besides better graphics or the third-person camera. I guess I'm more of a photographer, but catching combat shots is a lot harder than it was, and after taking a year long trip around the galaxy I got tired of it. But I suppose if just got tired of Elite altogether. Like how you worded your post though.

Edit: I honestly wish I had gone combat when I first got the game, then I would have gotten bored of combat first, then done trading, then exploring now with the graphics update and some POIs beyond the bubble. But instead I went trading until I was worn out, exploring until I was tired, now combat is just frustrating.

But you know the best thing Frontier could do for explorers in my opinion? They could:

Spoiler

make an offline version of the game, and allow us to edit game values, like FSD range. Elite is still a beautiful looking game, and continues to improve, but being able to actually use it as a sandbox would be great!

 

[Julio Montega]

What about pirates?

 

[Jezzah]

It's a good post OP. makes a lot of sense to a non explorer like myself.

Have to caveat the non explorer comment by saying that I would be an explorer if it was more interesting,rewarding,engaging.

The current system appeals to some for sure but it's clear that the whole mechanic and experience deserves a coat of polish and some dev love. Something that can take advantage of current in game features like Powerplay, CGs etc. Engineers gives some things that explorers might take advantage of but it doesn't address the underlying experience and reward the efforts that might attract more folk into exploring.

Exploring also shouldn't be limited to jumping to new systems and scanning. Exploring should also be about scanning and finding interesting things even in the bubble in systems that you might know very well.

 

[gooddoc]

Can't argue with that OP.....Iv been saying from day 1, it's unfortunate that pewpew sells any game the people want to play. It's all 'if it moves blow it up & if it doesn't move then shoot at it & see if it blows up'

For Elite Dangerous, us 'poor' Explorers have always had to make do with scraps while the pewpew fanboys get all the nice fat juicy steaks - & STILL COMPLAIN!!

It's just the way it is - but bear this in mind....Elite would not have a chance of surviving in the games market if it was geared mainly to the Exploration side....the pewpew is keeping the game going for us!

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Can't argue with that OP.....Iv been saying from day 1, it's unfortunate that pewpew sells any game the people want to play. It's all 'if it moves blow it up & if it doesn't move then shoot at it & see if it blows up'

For Elite Dangerous, us 'poor' Explorers have always had to make do with scraps while the pewpew fanboys get all the nice fat juicy steaks - & STILL COMPLAIN!!

It's just the way it is - but bear this in mind....Elite would not have a chance of surviving in the games market if it was geared mainly to the Exploration side....the pewpew is keeping the game going for us!

A bit harsh but funny never the less. To be fair, planetary landings is quite a big asset for explorers. We have one explorer for example, currently driving pole to pole on planet Beagle Point 2 in his SRV. We have another, completely mapping and naming every crater on the same planet. Even aside from that, planets provide resources for synthesis and without that, no sidewinder could get to Beagle Point. Additionally, there are some amazing sites to see from the surface of planets which are quire rewarding in themselves.

CQC actually often gets visits from explorers, myself included. When you are into day 72 of your trip and only half way there, sometimes you take a couple of hours break to blast things in CQC.

One more thing. For those that say they would try exploring IF there were something more interesting or rewarding out there I say these things are already there. When you find your first ringed earth like (I have only found 2 in 220,000 LY), perhaps with a close by landable moon, you know you have something special and you sure want to make sure you don't want to lose that before you get home. There are lots of other really rare things too. I have bumped into only one stellar super giant, have found and investigated only one ringed water world orbiting a gas giant. I have found two systems with six water worlds in. I have never found a planetary nebula or a black hole. etc etc. My real goal is to find an earth like moon of another planet.

If these kind of things don't appeal then exploration won't. No problem

 

[gooddoc]

Here's my what Iv done list

Community Goals - did 1st one to see what it was about (while in my early trading/exploring days) - not done one since, not even if linked to selling data.
Wings - only 'winged-up' once & that was a couple of weeks ago on the M&G trip- just so another CMDR could use me as a beacon to land at a WP.
PP - never done it & never will - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!
CQC - what! there's a button to press for CQC??.....not on my laptop there isn't!!!
Horizon's - Yeah, must admit this is useful to get my ship to far out places like Beagle Point & keep it flying using mats found on the surface.
Engineer's - currently doing atm to upgrade my Exploration ships to make them travel further.

It's getting better, not much but better!

 

[L.S Algir]

I support this OP . I 've just made an exploration trip at the begining of the year and it was very pleasant. I fited a new ship to go on a trip far deeper in space but I am still in the waiting of something a bit more valuable than taking pics ( i don't speak about money but implication ) . I must admit I don't have any idea about what I would want to see but well , there are game designers payed to think about that .
I see 2,5 major updates for exploration in 2.1 :
1-coordinates in log ..at last we can trace our trip more efficienlty.
2-Bookmarks .
and the last one , the 0.5 : fsd boost .... why 0.5 ? just because if you already fitted your ship the right way , well you already have plenty of Ly to jump where you want, plus jumponium from 2.0 ... so it's a boost , yep , but not a revolutionary one . Moreover , you have to deal with engineers in order to upgrade , and this leads to pewpew anyway.......

 

[Kirth]

Seems that you haven't looked into what the engineers actually ask for, but just made assumptions instead. Why don't you actually look rather than assume? For an Explorer you need better FSD drives, lighter modules. So what do the engineers ask for that? Do you have to' pew pew' in order to obtain them? You clearly seem to think you do. Please share this info.

 

[The Law]

Seems that you haven't looked into what the engineers actually ask for, but just made assumptions instead. Why don't you actually look rather than assume? For an Explorer you need better FSD drives, lighter modules. So what do the engineers ask for that? Do you have to' pew pew' in order to obtain them? You clearly seem to think you do. Please share this info.

I did. To upgrade FSD, you have to install wake scanner and scan other ship wakes and also go to wrecked ship USSes. Why would explorer have a wake scanner and also scavenge ships?

 

[matemaster]

OP what about mining ?

I was on 3 exploration trips, bought my first python with credits I got from my second exploration trip. I allready have plans for my fourth exploration trip.
But this time it will be special. I will go on sightseeing-mining tour, to find very exotic-looking rings and mine there only the very precius stuff like painite and diamonds

 

[gooddoc]

I did. To upgrade FSD, you have to install wake scanner and scan other ship wakes and also go to wrecked ship USSes. Why would explorer have a wake scanner and also scavenge ships?

At a first glance - if you're not into pewpew - then you're right, Engineers doesn't have much for the Explorer. But you need to give it try to see what IS on offer.

I thought the same, Iv never fitted a wake scanner nor scanned other ships & I would never enter ANY USS.
However, I decided to give it a go & now I'll enter ALL USS sites - that have a 0 threat rating & have installed a wake scanner & just hang around a station & wait for wakes & ships to appear.
I get the materials with NO threat to my ships.

Sure it's got nothing really to do with anything that an Explorer would want to do, but if it gets my ships longer jump ranges then it's worth a try.

 

[fuub]

And exploration still has the broken from the start mechanic that promotes just scanning the star and move on to the next one instead of rewarding better for far away planets and landing on them.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

There is plenty of stuff that FD will do for explorers over the coming updates. We are just not there yet.

Indeed given the size of the galaxy you could say that explorers are catered for more than anything else. But people want to see more stuff out there in space to find. We know aliens are coming. What I would like to see is the ability to find dead civilisations that might have been around in the past. Some sense of the a galaxy that has had life, dead cities, ruined worlds etc. We will also the 'The Missing' to look forward to as well, whatever that is.

Exploring is always a difficult one, because if you fill space will stuff then people say its unrealistic, if you fill space with nothing then people say its boring. Space in the end is just a big bunch of nothing.

 

[Jamie Wolf]

I agree to most parts.
Think the planetary landings were a big addition for explorers.
Gives you something else to do, apart from jsut watching the planet from above, now you can do joyrides there and maybe even find something interesting.

What is annoying to me, is that both engineers that offer drive and FSD upgrades need extremely rare items so they even talk to you. Have been docked at Maia now for days and not even seen 1 scrap of a Meta-Alloy which are supposed the be sold there.

For weapon upgrades they just want Bounty Vouchers or Money both things everyone has in abundance, or can produce in just a few minutes.

Sure the size of the Galaxy is nearly limitless, but it is also devoid of interesting things, as soon as you leave the bubble.
Think the explorers do not want to meet Aliens on every planet they touch down, but finding something else but rocks would be interesting.

Even in our solarsytem there have been various traces of unusual bacteria found on asteroids, so guess what strange microorganisms you could find on far away planets.

 

[CMDR Ash]

All you have done OP is explain what is wrong with the game for explorers, you haven't offered any constructive way to change it or even any positivity at all. I for one love driving around on planets, I don't have to collect material or tea, I just like to sit there and wait for that glorius class B star sun rise within a beautiful nebula.

What gameplay would you like to see as an explorer? I can't wait until we can see comets and other stellar items, imagine landing on a huge comet or asteroid and having to overcome extreme gravitational stress and huge chunks falling off

 

[MickyG1982]

Anyone remember the quote from Braben himself "Winter is coming!"

Pretty certain that means at some point the Thargoids are going to be appearing (along with other alien races) & guess who is probably going to see them &/or evidence that they exist first?

It won't be those of us in the bubble, thats for sure.

 

[Eera]

Engineers
Pew pew guy - those engineers are cool, bettar lazers
Space trucker - now I can deliver stuff to those guys to and they may even improve my ship, win win
Adventurer - Scan wakes, explore USS (at least now I can see if there are 3 Type-9s waiting to devour me, tired yay) and mine asteroids. Sigh...

And CASINO game too !

 

[Chris M Fortune]

I think exploration may well take a huge leap forward when we get landing on atmopheric planets, if we had planet side mining as well then that gives an explorer a revenue stream they can tap between being out in the black. not that exploring in itself isnt potentially rewarding enough in itself.

 

[goemon]

while explorers really get nothing for their exploring

actually, exploration data might be the best way to unlock high level modification for those explorer friendly engineers (like martuk and fraseer), who accept exploration data. and those only invite you if you have achieved some exploration.

also, ship modifications make a) a lot more ships very capable exploration vessels b) allow to optimize exploration outfitting in terms of weight, powerdraw and heat.