Why Guardian hull reinforcements may be worth a second look.

Guardian reinforcements are absolutely worth the effort! But how can that be? After all, they do give a substantially lower amount of absolute reinforcement. However, that isn't the entire story, and I would like to give a few arguments in favor of these rarely seen modules.

The most important aspect people don't consider is the effects of Repair Limpets. After all, repairs are boosted by caustic resistances, too! On a ship without resistances, a class 5 repair limpet heals 310hp, but on a ship with 5% resistance, that same exact limpet repairs 326.5, a 16.5 point difference!

The second aspect to consider is module reinforcement. It's a little-known fact that resistance also effects the damage taken by your modules, including your canopy! So while a player may lose some hull reinforcement, they may more than recoup their losses in module integrity. And of course, that also makes your afmu faster and more effective by proxy, too!

Consider, for example, the meta shieldless chieftain. It carries 3x c4 heavy duty hrps, and has 3270 armor, and 578 module reinforcement.

Now, swap one hrp for a c4 guardian hull reinforcement; the build loses 50 armor, true. But in exchange, each repair limpet used repairs 16.5 more, making up the difference in just 3 repair limpets!

In addition, the build gains 30.5 module reinforcement!

So, your build sacrifices about 1.5% max armor, in exchange for 5.5% better repairs and module integrity. To me, that's a pretty good trade.

Lastly, and probably the least importantly, Guardian modules are quite a bit easier to acquire and replace, once you have them unlocked. Assembling a new human reinforcement can mean lengthy journeys collecting materials and visiting Engineers, while a Guardian module can be purchased on the fly, sold, and bought back just as easily. This is relatively minor, but can save a lot of time in the long run.

Of course, there are a few downsides. Guardian reinforcements take power, power which may not be available. But on the other hand, I've seen many builds that have more power than they need, so swapping out some standard reinforcements for Guardian ones could be a low-cost trade in that regard.

The other vulnerability is to missiles from the Swarm, since they do absolute, not caustic damage. That is definitely a point worth considering, and if you find yourself often hit by missiles, it may be a good idea to stick with the human reinforcements. Personally, however, the real danger of missiles has never been the outright damage, but rather the way it shreds my modules, which won't be affected one way or the other by which type of reinforcement you choose.

At the very least, don't immediately assume that one is outright better than the other. They both have their pluses and minuses, and can offer significant benefits in the right circumstances.
 
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Common wisdom is that Guardian reinforcements aren't worth the effort. After all, they do give a substantially lower amount of absolute reinforcement. However, that isn't the entire story, and I would like to give a few arguments in favor of these rarely seen modules.

The most important aspect people don't consider is the effects of Repair Limpets. After all, repairs are boosted by caustic resistances, too! On a ship without resistances, a class 5 repair limpet heals 310hp, but on a ship with 5% resistance, that same exact limpet repairs 326.5, a 16.5 point difference!

The second aspect to consider is module reinforcement. It's a little-known fact that resistance also effects the damage taken by your modules, including your canopy! So while a player may lose some hull reinforcement, they may more than recoup their losses in module integrity. And of course, that also makes your afmu faster and more effective by proxy, too!

Consider, for example, the meta shieldless chieftain. It carries 3x c4 heavy duty hrps, and has 3270 armor, and 578 module reinforcement.

Now, swap one hrp for a c4 guardian hull reinforcement; the build loses 50 armor, true. But in exchange, each repair limpet used repairs 16.5 more, making up the difference in just 3 repair limpets!

In addition, the build gains 30.5 module reinforcement!

So, your build sacrifices about 1.5% max armor, in exchange for 5.5% better repairs and module integrity. To me, that's a pretty good trade.

Lastly, and probably the least importantly, Guardian modules are quite a bit easier to acquire and replace, once you have them unlocked. Assembling a new human reinforcement can mean lengthy journeys collecting materials and visiting Engineers, while a Guardian module can be purchased on the fly, sold, and bought back just as easily. This is relatively minor, but can save a lot of time in the long run.

Of course, there are a few downsides. Guardian reinforcements take power, power which may not be available. But on the other hand, I've seen many builds that have more power than they need, so swapping out some standard reinforcements for Guardian ones could be a low-cost trade in that regard.

The other vulnerability is to missiles from the Swarm, since they do absolute, not caustic damage. That is definitely a point worth considering, and if you find yourself often hit by missiles, it may be a good idea to stick with the human reinforcements. Personally, however, the real danger of missiles has never been the outright damage, but rather the way it shreds my modules, which won't be affected one way or the other by which type of reinforcement you choose.

At the very least, don't immediately assume that one is outright better than the other. They both have their pluses and minuses, and can offer significant benefits in the right circumstances.
I am not buying the argument. Yes, 310 / (1 + 0.05) = 325.5 a 15.5 increase for a 5% additional caustic resistance.

But if I understand correctly (correct me if I am wrong), this calculation can only be applied, i.e. caustic resistance matters only IF(!) you receive caustic damage, and the only source of caustic damage is the thargoid seeker and the fog.

In small and medium ships piloted by reasonably competent cmdrs, caustic seeker is easily avoided. You could fit GHRs but then you are losing many hitpoints vs G5 HRPs.

Perhaps GHRPs make sense for large ships or if the HRP engineer is not unlocked.
 
Do use the gmrs as their fab...trade of power for more module integrity.
I've no idea why ghrs are not at least a third more integrity than their human equivalents. Power as trade off same as gmrs.
Daft! Needs a balance pass if you ask me
 
I am not buying the argument. Yes, 310 / (1 + 0.05) = 325.5 a 15.5 increase for a 5% additional caustic resistance.

But if I understand correctly (correct me if I am wrong), this calculation can only be applied, i.e. caustic resistance matters only IF(!) you receive caustic damage, and the only source of caustic damage is the thargoid seeker and the fog.

In small and medium ships piloted by reasonably competent cmdrs, caustic seeker is easily avoided. You could fit GHRs but then you are losing many hitpoints vs G5 HRPs.

Perhaps GHRPs make sense for large ships or if the HRP engineer is not unlocked.
Caustic resistance is not related to the debuff status effect from caustic missiles.

"Caustic" is a damage type, the same as thermal/kinetic/explosive. It's the type of damage done by a thargoid interceptor's main cannon and the laser fire from thargons. They do not do absolute damage like a lot of people think.
 
Caustic resistance is not related to the debuff status effect from caustic missiles.

"Caustic" is a damage type, the same as thermal/kinetic/explosive. It's the type of damage done by a thargoid interceptor's main cannon and the laser fire from thargons. They do not do absolute damage like a lot of people think.
If it is indeed the case that goid cannon shots are 100% caustic (which would be in agreement with player preference for heavy duty hrp instead of thermal or kinetic) then I stand corrected.

Because you gain 5% of total hitpoints with each guardian hrp but you lose hitpoints with respect to a G5 hrp, it is likely that for most ships the best build should have a guardian hrp in the small slots only.
 
If it is indeed the case that goid cannon shots are 100% caustic (which would be in agreement with player preference for heavy duty hrp instead of thermal or kinetic) then I stand corrected.

Because you gain 5% of total hitpoints with each guardian hrp but you lose hitpoints with respect to a G5 hrp, it is likely that for most ships the best build should have a guardian hrp in the small slots only.
Unfortunately, for a long time, the fan-made resources incorrectly listed the thargoid main cannon damage as absolute, even long after most experienced players knew otherwise. They did eventually change it after I pestered them enough! That is likely part of the confusion, plus the fact that both the damage over time and main damage are both listed as caustic damage. But yes, most thargoid damage is definitely caustic. The two big exceptions are the lightning, and the thargon suicide missiles. Fortunately, both of those can be avoided more easily than the main cannon.

The part people always forget, however, is the fact that almost all players use repair limpets before the end, and the caustic resistances multiply that, as well. If you use three repair limpets, you've added a bonus 49 hull the all-human build won't get! Unless you anticipate dying before being able to repair yourself, the two even out before the end of the fight. AND, of course, you have the benefits of the additional module integrity, as well, which in my experience, is the real reason most players end up bugging out.


Ship BuildTotal Hull after 3x repair limpets.(module integrity)
All-Human4200 (578)
Swap 1x human for 1x guardian4199 (608)

As you can see, by the end of the fight, you've functionally got exactly the same amount of hull, but with bonus module integrity besides.

You are largely right that it's best to swap out smaller sizes if possible, and that's DEFINITELY ideal, but even if you don't have a smaller one to swap, trading a larger class can still be worthwhile!
 
It’s worth it if you want to build multiple AX ships but don’t want to grind out the matts or spend the time engineering a bunch of modules. Truth is, unless you are hunting the tougher interceptors the advantage of G5 engineered over the guardian hull reinforcements is largely mute.

If you go out to guardian space to grind the blueprints for the FSD booster and mod reinforcements it doesn’t take much more time to get an extra blueprint.
 
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