Why i think exploration is as it is.

This is a cut out part from the article i wrote about how i feel about the current game, which you can either see at my website here, or by the forum post here.

I'd also like to point out that this isn't very related to my break from elite, as it has been on my mind way longer than that, anyways i hope this may enlight some of you, and as always i apologize for any bad grammar :)




3. The problems with exploration in the current game.
Exploration has always been a profession which frontier has put little effort into. Frontier counter-arguments this by saying there have been loads of updates to exploration, but updates, as proven by powerplay, aren't always good. Take the first discovered by system, although it gives nice rewards, and the ability to brag over being there first, it also has negative effects. I remember before the system was implemented, going to the far reaches of the galaxy and seeing amazing sights, which i most likely was the first to ever see. Now i could still do that, and i often would be the first one, but jumping just two systems away from it and seeing a "First discovered by Allintil" is more than enough to ruin that feeling. Another update, yet not an upgrade, was the ability to target planets from the system map. Although this certainly was a help to combateers, traders and smugglers, this was a rather downgrade to the exploration gameplay. There was always a challenge, a rather fun one, to look at the system map, trying to find the correct planet via an assortments of tricks, and either feeling like you've accomplished something getting it right the first place, or discover something you weren't planning on if you failed. It had a value for explorers, as it was one of the few times which skill was required, but frontier didn't listen, and exploration became even less skill-based than it already was.

One of the maybe more fundamental issues, but which i have literally seen none point out is how traveling in elite works vs in the real life. Okay, imagine sitting in a car. You're not the driver, but you sit in the second front seat, with a quite comfortable seat (amazingly enough) but yet nothing to do other than to look outside the window. Now imagine you're in a foreign, and very new country. A country with loads of things you haven't seen before. Of course most of us wouldn't mind being in that situation, even if that included being in the car for a few hours, you get to see stuff! So what has this to do with elite? Well in elite it's not quite the same. Once you reach a system it's for the most part just like any other, a star, maybe one or two or three nearby, very rarely a close planet, and nothing particularly new. You jump to the next system, and it's practically the same, except this time there's one star more 100k LS away. Of course on the system map this isn't the case, but as many explorers such as i do not always check the system map, and even if i do, go to the planets, it gets repetitive very quickly, and traveling only becomes rewarding after a couple of thousand lightyears as you see the backdrop change, which frankly, for most people, isn't worth the time. I've almost never seen anyone completley depend on the amazing gameplay of grinding yourself to the other end of the galaxy alone. Me myself tend to have whatever YouTube video playing on my phone, while barely paying attention to elite except from the occasional fuel scoop.
It's just not fun.

It doesn't help either that the rewards for exploration are, and have never been, that great. Now i'm not just talking about direct reward via credits, but also the reward in finding something unique. Sure, occasionally you get a ringed earthlike, a binary supergiant etc. but in comparasent to all the completley similar systems you find, and the rarity of the galactic wonders, you have to have a real dedicated and special mindset to make exploration any fun for you, which frankly very few actually have, and it is probably a part of the reason why exploration is such a small, and undeveloped proffession.




Fly safe!
 
While I agree that not a lot of effort has been put into exploration as such (apart from the galaxy being there at all) I am struggling to see your points. Maybe you are just burnt out and need a break. That's pretty understandable. I think most explorers in real life have really just wanted to tag a pole, a high mountain, a winter ascent or a bottomless pit. Lhotse is the fourth highest mountain in the world and part of it is attached to Everest. In fact you often climb part of Lhotse to get up Everest. Do you think the first people to reach the summit of Lhotse were put off by the fact that the neighbouring peak of Everest was climbed three years before? They were still the first people there.

I am one the those people who don't have anything running while exploring. Today I flew 2700LY and found nothing, not even a WW. Most of the stops didn't even have planets. Yesterday I found a ringed WW orbiting a beautiful gas giant and it's those moments that drive me on in my current journey which has clocked up a total of 83,000LY so far. I think the spirit of exploration in Elite is pretty good and reflects reality quite well. Vast tracts of boredom followed by sudden amazing discoveries. Sure there could be other things out there but ultimately they would dissolve into the tedium as well.
 
While I agree that not a lot of effort has been put into exploration as such (apart from the galaxy being there at all) I am struggling to see your points. Maybe you are just burnt out and need a break. That's pretty understandable. I think most explorers in real life have really just wanted to tag a pole, a high mountain, a winter ascent or a bottomless pit. Lhotse is the fourth highest mountain in the world and part of it is attached to Everest. In fact you often climb part of Lhotse to get up Everest. Do you think the first people to reach the summit of Lhotse were put off by the fact that the neighbouring peak of Everest was climbed three years before? They were still the first people there.

I am one the those people who don't have anything running while exploring. Today I flew 2700LY and found nothing, not even a WW. Most of the stops didn't even have planets. Yesterday I found a ringed WW orbiting a beautiful gas giant and it's those moments that drive me on in my current journey which has clocked up a total of 83,000LY so far. I think the spirit of exploration in Elite is pretty good and reflects reality quite well. Vast tracts of boredom followed by sudden amazing discoveries. Sure there could be other things out there but ultimately they would dissolve into the tedium as well.

Well i see that, and i still enjoy exploration, but it all just results in a very isolated and small community. And at some point all of that community will be burnt out, there's simply not enough to make new players enter exploration apart from just doing it.
 
Well i see that, and i still enjoy exploration, but it all just results in a very isolated and small community. And at some point all of that community will be burnt out, there's simply not enough to make new players enter exploration apart from just doing it.
Dude, I joined this game because of exploration. Unfortunately I was a little too late to the party to join the Distant Worlds expedition. The number of players who went on that journey, though, is staggering. I am literally floored every time I watch a video from one of the many CMDRs who are covering the events that go on during the expedition. SRV races and mountain climbing--the amount of creativity and fun generated by players, with other players, for other players, is really heartening. And this is in a "career path" traditionally thought of as a solo occupation! :D

You're right, exploration seems like it would result in an isolated community. And it does if you think of it that way. I went on my first expedition in February, and it was a little lonely. But that was because I didn't have a sense of how the Elite community works. After I came back, I also joined these forums. I discovered all the resources that my fellow explorers are working to maintain and update as we learn more about the galaxy and the game. I never fail to be surprised or amazed by the sheer level of collaboration that has gone into some of these resources. We explorers are doing an awesome job.

I 100% agree that Frontier could give the exploration mechanics some TLC. For example, exploring doesn't have to be lonely if you're in a wing! But instancing and other issues can sometimes make that a tenuous proposition. Ironing those out would be cool. Improvements to the procedural system generator would be welcome too, though I'm not quite as dissatisfied as you by how it works right now--the fact of the matter is, most of the galaxy is like that: lots of stars, some of which have planets, some of which are interesting. But it's mostly empty space and hydrogen.

So, good post and not hating, but like Scoopy I kind of feel like the sense of frustration you're showing isn't so much with the game as it is with just burning out on doing too much of the same thing. Variety is good. Go shoot some stuff for a little and then come back and help explore the Formidine Rift with other people, or something community-like. But thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
Dude, I joined this game because of exploration. Unfortunately I was a little too late to the party to join the Distant Worlds expedition. The number of players who went on that journey, though, is staggering. I am literally floored every time I watch a video from one of the many CMDRs who are covering the events that go on during the expedition. SRV races and mountain climbing--the amount of creativity and fun generated by players, with other players, for other players, is really heartening. And this is in a "career path" traditionally thought of as a solo occupation! :D

You're right, exploration seems like it would result in an isolated community. And it does if you think of it that way. I went on my first expedition in February, and it was a little lonely. But that was because I didn't have a sense of how the Elite community works. After I came back, I also joined these forums. I discovered all the resources that my fellow explorers are working to maintain and update as we learn more about the galaxy and the game. I never fail to be surprised or amazed by the sheer level of collaboration that has gone into some of these resources. We explorers are doing an awesome job.

I 100% agree that Frontier could give the exploration mechanics some TLC. For example, exploring doesn't have to be lonely if you're in a wing! But instancing and other issues can sometimes make that a tenuous proposition. Ironing those out would be cool. Improvements to the procedural system generator would be welcome too, though I'm not quite as dissatisfied as you by how it works right now--the fact of the matter is, most of the galaxy is like that: lots of stars, some of which have planets, some of which are interesting. But it's mostly empty space and hydrogen.

So, good post and not hating, but like Scoopy I kind of feel like the sense of frustration you're showing isn't so much with the game as it is with just burning out on doing too much of the same thing. Variety is good. Go shoot some stuff for a little and then come back and help explore the Formidine Rift with other people, or something community-like. But thanks for sharing your thoughts!

This raises a good point. Most people are intrigued by exploration. I blogged my journey to Sag A* on Facebook every day of the trip. I just described it as a journey I was on and posted daily photos and updates and little bits of made up drama. I still get people in real life who know nothing about ED asking me about it and fascinated by whatever the hell it was I was doing. Some people, even some who have never bought a game before, have gone on to buy this one.

Exploration is the jewel in ED's crown. It is what sets it apart from all the other games
 
Exploration is the jewel in ED's crown. It is what sets it apart from all the other games

That's an interesting point. I wonder if that's why I'm not very interested in Star Citizen? I mean I love space games, always have, but Elite seems to be enough of a game to fill my "space sim" needs, and honestly now that you put it like that I think I realize that it's the exploration aspect that makes Elite so much fun for me. I do enjoy some combat now and then, and I find mining to be fun too, and even trading in small doses, but the vast majority of my time with Elite has been exploring.

Kola, while I do agree that exploration could use some tender loving from FDev, I find it a lot of fun just the way it is now too. It sounds like you might just be burned out a bit.
 
I've just gotten to Beagle Point (as part of DWE) and have, mostly, loved every moment. Even though it's been a LOT of jumps and at times got a tedius, this was mostly due to the rush of staying with the group rather than the exploration itself.

I kinda agree it's a bit disappointing to travel 60kLY just to find a "Discovered by Stulli" tag on something. But can't help that - either you're amongst the first,
or you're not. And there's still plenty of places in the galaxy where you do get the feeling of being first. Just get off the beaten track by a few jumps.

OTOH, the analogy of sitting in a car and watching the new countryside going past is also only interesting the first few times if you're generally the type to get bored quickly. Travel a few times and the magic of being somewhere new gets diminished; it's still exciting, but not as much as those first times. Your example of being in a brand new country with loads of things you haven't seen before only holds while you haven't travelled much - the more you travel, the more things are similar. Sure, they'll still be different in detail, but overall big cities are the same, countryside is the same, etc.

So it's hardly surprising that jumping into a new system after having jumped into thousands before is going to feel samey. Bet you didn't feel like that for your first dozen or hundred or whatever. If we ever do develop interstellar travel, it -will- be like that. You'll find millions of planet(oid)s which look a bit like Mercury or Mars or Jupiter etc. Sure, they'll all be unique in detail, but generally there's only so many different ways you can stack rocks and gases together. Same with solar systems, they'll all just be variations on the theme. So not sure how you expect them to be different enough to warrant continued interest. It really is about the magic of finding that ringed Water World, or a beautiful Gas Giant with its cluster of moons beguilingly lit by a distant nebula amongst the more humdrum systems.

But yeah, if you feel you're grinding, it's not the right game, or game mechanic for you. Maybe I'll feel the same in another 80kLY (I have to fly back, after all!) but for now, apart from the aforementioned speed, it hasn't felt like a grind, rather a quite relaxing way of enjoying the sights.


Having said that, I do feel FDev has lost an opportunity for implementing a real galactic exploration mechanic. Unfortunately it's too late now. But imagine if the Galaxy Map was, mostly, fogged out when the game started. Each developed System has an Observatory (linked to its tech level), which determines its Range. Objects are detected depending on the Range of the Observatory, and the luminosity of the Object itself (so SagA* for example is detected by pretty much anything in the whole galaxy, O-class stars can be detected quite far away etc. and Brown Dwarfs only from relatively close by).

Now an exploration ship can carry a portable Observatory as a module, again, different class, different Range, but significantly less powerful than a System Observatory. But as Explorers carve their ways through the galaxy, it is slowly exposed. Again, brightest objects first but as ships approach, less luminous stellar objects.

That would have given exploration a real feeling of discovering the galaxy!


I never played the game before the Advanced Discovery Scanner, nor before being able to click on an object in the System Map, so can't really say how good/realistic it was to explore a System before these.
 
Having said that, I do feel FDev has lost an opportunity for implementing a real galactic exploration mechanic. Unfortunately it's too late now.

Nah, it's not too late, the game will evolve in time, and I'm certain that exploration will be expanded upon eventually. Honestly I'd be happy with little things like exploration POI's on planet surfaces that we can scan for data, the further from Sol the more the artifact is worth. Or comets put into solar systems that can be scanned for data. Or maybe make the value of escape pods dependent on how far from Sol they are discovered? Eventually exploration missions will be implemented, and then someday exploration might be the key to civilization moving out into the stars and expanding the bubble.

Maybe I am just an optimist though too. :D
 
Nah, it's not too late, the game will evolve in time, and I'm certain that exploration will be expanded upon eventually.

Oh, sorry, yeah, I didn't mean overall it's too late. But for the specific mechanic that I outlined it is; can't hide the galaxy now!

In general I too am optimistic that exploration will get some love in future - especially after the very high-profile DWE which got ED into various magazines..
 
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