Why is it that...

[Kramster]

PP has the makings of a good system but as it stands it is close to everything I don't want. It totally ignores the existing rep/faction system which needed some love. The mission tasks are uninteresting and limited. The ranking system seems to be a ladder grindfest which is exactly what ED shouldn't be. It over complicates the interaction with the existing mechanics which makes it less attractive for many to want to sign up for it.

True it is optional but, but given it is such a large update which ED raved about, many are disappointed that it isn't for them and they are stuck with the same content they have done to death for months.

Players have a right to express their feelings but true some could possibly be a little more constructive.

It could have been so much better but hopefully, with the aid of 'feedback', it will grow into sometimes more meaningful and rewarding and maybe I will feel the urge to take part in it

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

There are tons of valid complaints and I won't get into them here.
However, the "completely optional" bit is not entirely true. sure - I don't have to sign up and can keep playing as I used to, but then I'm at risk of seeing the background simulation change massively. Minor factions I supported may dwindle because their systems are held by a hostile power, entire sectors may become uninhabitable because they're taken by a power changing the economy etc...

I don't like PP in its current implementation, however I feel the need to participate in order to preserve my way of life.

 

[Patrick_68000]

As long as the people are respectful and polite, no problem. The criticism is welcome

 

[random_tangent]

every couple days since power play we get a new wave of whiners saying "i hate this" When its completely Optional? I dont understand why people are upset. Everyone more or less knew what this was going to be about. Yes the bugs are a pain. but with them releasing a patch every 3 days its hard to complain. Its not like its Completely broken.


I love Powerplay and will Die on this hill defending it. Yes i wan more polish and fewer bugs. But overall the game is better for 1.3

Even if RES zones stopped crapping out credits like it had dysentery

Well, that much is obvious. Why don't you try reading some of the threads you're complaining about, then we wouldn't need an entirely pointless thread complaining about people complaining! The fact that PP is optional is irrelevant. Of the more well thought-out, calm and rational critiques of PP I've read, most are not raging for it to be ripped out of the game, or even saying that in principle it's a terrible idea. Their beef, understandably, is that the PP update didn't provide what they feel the game is sorely lacking. Moreover, a mechanic like PP itself would benefit hugely from more of that "lacking" stuff, like more gameplay, more variety, better missions etc. In other words, a lot of people believe PP is putting the coach before the horses. They believe it is too soon for end-game content like this. They worry that FD is prioritising stuff like this and in doing so neglecting the basics. Worse, they fear FD doesn't believe serious problems exist with the shallow gameplay ED currently offers. For the first time, a lot of people are starting to doubt that this unfurnished house will ever be furnished. Instead, FD will concentrate on building all the other houses in the neighbourhood, building schools and hospitals and shopping centres. The problem is that none of them are furnished - all of them are empty shells.

Because everyone feels entitled to have their own soapbox to yell from and since it never stops, I'm guessing they ARE entitled to do so. So they do, I think they really think they are making new points we haven't seen yet. Who needs consolidation anyway?

They are entitled to voice their concerns. They're paying customers. In my experience, most do so because they care about the game. A little assumption of good faith would go a long way on this forum at times.

 

[Sonoskay]

For some players there is no "going back to normal".
For them PP was the feature that either would keep them playing ED or bring them back to ED.
Of course PP is optional, but that's no good if you've already exhausted the other option.
I think that is where some of the disappointment comes from.

Perhaps you are right.
But in all honesty what did anyone really exspect? A personal narrative is impossible with a game like this, And people complain about "Grinding" But if there wasnt a need to work for it, it would be borring, and worse, it would allow Sabatures from other factions to wreck havoc. or even people just not understanding what they are doing... we already have way too much of that..
And if a single person could effect power play in a greater way this would be even more catastrophic,

It feels like people Complain because they want something that isnt really possible...

Reading those posts will generally give you the answer you seek.

And I fully expect this thread now be closed as it is labelling those critical of powerplay in a derogatory and insulting manner.

Especially since someone has his thread closing hat on this morning.

The only derogatory statement i made was in regaurds to RES sites. and that was mostly for Comedic effect.



All that aside, I think if you have done most of what there is to be done aside from power play, then once you get into a character and roleplay a bit, it can be quiet the dangerous way to effect the game around you...
before Factions did very little anyway, so a faction coming and going becuase of political pressures dont effect the player who ignores pp anyway.

 

[Sonoskay]

Moreover, a mechanic like PP itself would benefit hugely from more of that "lacking" stuff, like more gameplay, more variety, better missions etc. In other words, a lot of people believe PP is putting the coach before the horses. They believe it is too soon for end-game content like this. They worry that FD is prioritising stuff like this and in doing so neglecting the basics..

Well aside from the broken assassination missions. What would you say is lacking? what could they add to make the "basic game more interesting" I have heard this complaint a lot and have not seen anyone actualy say what could be added or what is needed.

As far as the begining of your statement. I have read most of the complaints about power play, and the vast majority of them are whining. Thats the problem i see. I can respect Actual Critique, But most are just pointless complaining , and when they do try to say what they dont like it seems almost like a straw man.

 

[random_tangent]

Well aside from the broken assassination missions. What would you say is lacking? what could they add to make the "basic game more interesting" I have heard this complaint a lot and have not seen anyone actualy say what could be added or what is needed.

As far as the begining of your statement. I have read most of the complaints about power play, and the vast majority of them are whining. Thats the problem i see. I can respect Actual Critique, But most are just pointless complaining , and when they do try to say what they dont like it seems almost like a straw man.

There are a LOT of threads and posts about stuff like this. Many people would refer you to the DDA, because much of the content and gameplay discussed there is still absent. However, to give you a flavour of the sort of stuff I'm talking about:

*Content, content and more content
*More involving missions with characters and minor story arcs
*Branching and sequential mission arcs with a clear progression
*More variety within missions
*More sophisticated seeding of procedural generation to avoid the "cookie cutter" problem
*A greater variety of game-play scenarios - battles around stations, planetary bombardment, derelicts, etc. - this is just limited by imagination
*Overhaul of existing instanced stuff - CZs should actually have a point or purpose, they should be to secure or take a station or something like that, they should be winnable or losable. RES should actually have some infrastructure in them, some large-scale commercial mining operation should be evidently present, there should be some REASON for them to be where they are, you should be hireable as a merc to defend coporate mining interests, regular visits by big trading ships to take minerals away from static refineries could provide random/timed events, etc.
*Something to do when exploring - probes, samples, scanning gameplay, other astronomical phenomena like comets or asteroids. Wouldn't it be cool if you could scan for likely asteroid hits and watching something crashing into a planet. Exploration is completely empty at the moment for me, and is one of the most obvious areas for improvement. Gameplay is literally just fly near to a planet, look at it, and wait. I would like to see things like scanning trajectories of planets and being able to simulate their motion sped up in the system map - things like that. Everything is so static at the moment. Once the awe wears off, exploration becomes extremely repetitive and boring.

There is a lot more than this out there - I'm just spitballing off-the-cuff. We haven't even got to the whole "living breathing universe" aspect of the game and how it is completely lacking, or the background simulation, or real-life economics, like supply and demand. The point is that there isn't much to DO in elite at the moment. There are reasons to do it - get rich, earn merits, get a bigger ship - but the actual activities themselves are in extremely short supply. Elite has the potential to be an engaging, immersive, believable rendering of the future. At the moment though, it feels like a space flight/combat simulator with some token content sprinkled on top to give people a bit of something to do.

 

[Dbrn47]

There are a LOT of threads and posts about stuff like this. Many people would refer you to the DDA, because much of the content and gameplay discussed there is still absent. However, to give you a flavour of the sort of stuff I'm talking about:

*Content, content and more content
*More involving missions with characters and minor story arcs
*Branching and sequential mission arcs with a clear progression
*More variety within missions
*More sophisticated seeding of procedural generation to avoid the "cookie cutter" problem
*A greater variety of game-play scenarios - battles around stations, planetary bombardment, derelicts, etc. - this is just limited by imagination
*Overhaul of existing instanced stuff - CZs should actually have a point or purpose, they should be to secure or take a station or something like that, they should be winnable or losable. RES should actually have some infrastructure in them, some large-scale commercial mining operation should be evidently present, there should be some REASON for them to be where they are, you should be hireable as a merc to defend coporate mining interests, regular visits by big trading ships to take minerals away from static refineries could provide random/timed events, etc.
*Something to do when exploring - probes, samples, scanning gameplay, other astronomical phenomena like comets or asteroids. Wouldn't it be cool if you could scan for likely asteroid hits and watching something crashing into a planet. Exploration is completely empty at the moment for me, and is one of the most obvious areas for improvement. Gameplay is literally just fly near to a planet, look at it, and wait. I would like to see things like scanning trajectories of planets and being able to simulate their motion sped up in the system map - things like that. Everything is so static at the moment. Once the awe wears off, exploration becomes extremely repetitive and boring.

There is a lot more than this out there - I'm just spitballing off-the-cuff. We haven't even got to the whole "living breathing universe" aspect of the game and how it is completely lacking, or the background simulation, or real-life economics, like supply and demand. The point is that there isn't much to DO in elite at the moment. There are reasons to do it - get rich, earn merits, get a bigger ship - but the actual activities themselves are in extremely short supply. Elite has the potential to be an engaging, immersive, believable rendering of the future. At the moment though, it feels like a space flight/combat simulator with some token content sprinkled on top to give people a bit of something to do.

It seems pretty clear that they are still working on the framework of the game. I'm sure all that lovely content we are looking forward to will come once they have all the actual systems they want in place. Who really knows. They were really excited about power play apparently only to have the forum community basically bash them day in and out for it. If it keeps up, what's really in it for them to continue trying things other than"WE ARE CUSTOMERS, GIVE US THINGS."

I will continue to reiterate that I like what they've added and I am looking forward to more.

 

[salad]

Because people whine about anything..

ANYTHING...

if there's a BUG that allows you to earn easy money and that BUG gets patched, they cry.

Remember when they used to call the VIPER OP?

Suddenly the crying stopped because they released new ships...lol

Don't take them too seriously, If I did I would have ragequit ages ago, instead I just play the game...

And FD is doing an excellent job with it, making it better each update.

Just rememeber, people will cry about everything and they are a loud minority.

 

[random_tangent]

It seems pretty clear that they are still working on the framework of the game. I'm sure all that lovely content we are looking forward to will come once they have all the actual systems they want in place. Who really knows. They were really excited about power play apparently only to have the forum community basically bash them day in and out for it. If it keeps up, what's really in it for them to continue trying things other than"WE ARE CUSTOMERS, GIVE US THINGS."

I will continue to reiterate that I like what they've added and I am looking forward to more.

I think that's exactly the point: who DOES know? I think people had a certain amount of faith, pre-PP. They had a certain amount of hope that the PP update would address some of the more fundamental shortcomings of the game. It didn't do that. It pretended like those shortcomings didn't exist, and added a meta-game layer on top of already shallow, repetitive game-play mechanics which most seasoned players have done to death. And that's really the heart of the issue. Do FD really believe that these shortcomings exist? Do they think the game needs content? If they do, why are they wasting time on things like powerplay when the basic game isn't finished? To extend the building metaphor to torturous extremes: surely one needs to have finished laying the foundations before trying to build a roof?

And secondly, some people seem to believe we should just be thankful for what we've got. That is a bizarre attitude to me. I appreciate FD's efforts, but they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts'. ED isn't a favour they're doing for us. This is a commercial arrangement. They made something and now they want people to pay money for it. They want us to like it, and we want to like it, but I'm afraid I don't recognise this whole "we should stop moaning or they'll get discouraged" attitude. I don't owe FD anything. That doesn't mean we can't be respectful and polite though, I completely agree.

- - - Updated - - -

Because people whine about anything..

ANYTHING...

if there's a BUG that allows you to earn easy money and that BUG gets patched, they cry.

Remember when they used to call the VIPER OP?

Suddenly the crying stopped because they released new ships...lol

Don't take them too seriously, If I did I would have ragequit ages ago, instead I just play the game...

And FD is doing an excellent job with it, making it better each update.

Just rememeber, people will cry about everything and they are a loud minority.

And apparently people will cry about legitimate complaints, because apparently, for some reason, they feel unnecessarily threatened by them. If you enjoy the game that's great. Why do you care that other people have issues they want to raise?

 

[Sonoskay]

There are a LOT of threads and posts about stuff like this. Many people would refer you to the DDA, because much of the content and gameplay discussed there is still absent. However, to give you a flavour of the sort of stuff I'm talking about:

*Content, content and more content
*More involving missions with characters and minor story arcs
*Branching and sequential mission arcs with a clear progression
*More variety within missions
*More sophisticated seeding of procedural generation to avoid the "cookie cutter" problem
*A greater variety of game-play scenarios - battles around stations, planetary bombardment, derelicts, etc. - this is just limited by imagination
*Overhaul of existing instanced stuff - CZs should actually have a point or purpose, they should be to secure or take a station or something like that, they should be winnable or losable. RES should actually have some infrastructure in them, some large-scale commercial mining operation should be evidently present, there should be some REASON for them to be where they are, you should be hireable as a merc to defend coporate mining interests, regular visits by big trading ships to take minerals away from static refineries could provide random/timed events, etc.
*Something to do when exploring - probes, samples, scanning gameplay, other astronomical phenomena like comets or asteroids. Wouldn't it be cool if you could scan for likely asteroid hits and watching something crashing into a planet. Exploration is completely empty at the moment for me, and is one of the most obvious areas for improvement. Gameplay is literally just fly near to a planet, look at it, and wait. I would like to see things like scanning trajectories of planets and being able to simulate their motion sped up in the system map - things like that. Everything is so static at the moment. Once the awe wears off, exploration becomes extremely repetitive and boring.

There is a lot more than this out there - I'm just spitballing off-the-cuff. We haven't even got to the whole "living breathing universe" aspect of the game and how it is completely lacking, or the background simulation, or real-life economics, like supply and demand. The point is that there isn't much to DO in elite at the moment. There are reasons to do it - get rich, earn merits, get a bigger ship - but the actual activities themselves are in extremely short supply. Elite has the potential to be an engaging, immersive, believable rendering of the future. At the moment though, it feels like a space flight/combat simulator with some token content sprinkled on top to give people a bit of something to do.

Most of the things are NOT spesific. "more content" is not spesific"

"*More involving missions with characters and minor story arcs
*Branching and sequential mission arcs with a clear progression"

so.... MMO quests? You relaize the problem with this right? unless there is a bunch ful time writer constantly writing stories for ED, then what this is asking for is those terrible Linier MMO quests. i dont think this exsperience is right for ED. The whole point is to make your own story. Not fallow one that is pre-made. and "Dynamic quests or missions" is not at all practical. not even WoW or guild wars, arguably the richest MMOS ever can do this in any cost effective mannor. this is simply a bad idea.

"*More variety within missions
*More sophisticated seeding of procedural generation to avoid the "cookie cutter" problem"

Mission Variaty is not so easy to come up with as you think. come up with ONE that fits within EDs universe , that would be fun and fulfilling. I will conside thos point if someone can actualy make up one that makes sense.
Proceduarl generation... for what? the systems. most of space looks pretty boring... to make rare finds rare... most of space needs to be fairly common... For res sites maybe? There are only so many combinations of ships...

*Overhaul of existing instanced stuff - CZs should actually have a point or purpose, they should be to secure or take a station or something like that, they should be winnable or losable.

Attacking of stations might be interesting. But doing somthing like this would be dificult to pin the mechanics down.. Planetary bombardments cant happen without landing on planets..so this isnt an option at all until like 1.4 or 1.5... and making CZs "winnable" is a nicce idea. but to make it work in ED would require groups of players and getting people together is sort of like hearding cats. Not a bad idea just.. hard to work out... and if you make CZs winnable by a single player then you just gave players too much power. it Could ruin the game in a completely new way..

"RES should actually have some infrastructure in them, some large-scale commercial mining operation should be evidently present, there should be some REASON for them to be where they are, you should be hireable as a merc to defend coporate mining interests, regular visits by big trading ships to take minerals away from static refineries could provide random/timed events, etc."

This might work. but getting the AI to do what you want is hard. Smart AI is dificult to program. given time this may come. but doing this would actualy take longer to make work than introducing something new like power play. Making the simulation work in a way that is clearly visable has a similar problem.
Though i like the "big trading ships thing." i guess that might not be to hard to do. though its a small thing most wouldn't care too much about i feel...

Infact, the oly thing that seems actually practical to make work in a timely way would be giving explorers a more active roll in exsporing. Giving them more info on the planets themselves by sending probes or something. That is cool. and the other things you suggest with exsporing might be added easily with each new patch.. probes and Planetary info in 1.4, Commets and large asteriods or dwarf planets in 1.5 and so on..

Overall it seems what people want is impractical and Unwieldy. some of those things would be Absolutely wonderful to see, but would be near impossible to get right. And thus probably be better off waiting/not having some features. If i had to guess why PP was out forth was because its a neat and cool idea that would generate long term interest in the game. It game a direct way to Observe how in game characters interact.

 

[salad]

And apparently people will cry about legitimate complaints, because for some reason they feel threatened by them. Why do you care that other people have issues they want to raise?

I don't, most people have no idea what they're complaining about and sometimes people take it too far, happens too often here...

Not feeling threatened, just a friendly advice to new forum members.

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

Why is that every couple of days we have a new wave of whiners opening threads complaining about whiners?

 

[NVNM]

We can only voice concerns and issues, it's not our place or job to fix the problems we found or create the content we as customers want.

 

[BigFW]

Well I suppose if you do don't like PP and feel that resources were allocated here rather than in other areas of the game then 'one' may feel a need to whine.

Personally I don't care for PP and with total assets approaching 20mil I still feel I need to earn money. I've avoided 'farming' be it RES or external sources pointing to good trade routes. Just trying to play the game.
I feel PP may appeal more to those that have made their money as it comes across more about earning merits for your cause. Not for me at the moment.

But I'm kinda laid back and am still enjoying the game having played since last August in Beta. Maybe only being able to play a few hours a week helps, thanks to family life and dare I say it... other games!

 

[random_tangent]

Most of the things are NOT spesific. "more content" is not spesific"

It doesn't need to be specific. I don't want to design the game. I want them to add content. I want them to invent interesting content which is fun to play.

"*More involving missions with characters and minor story arcs
*Branching and sequential mission arcs with a clear progression"

so.... MMO quests? You relaize the problem with this right? unless there is a bunch ful time writer constantly writing stories for ED, then what this is asking for is those terrible Linier MMO quests. i dont think this exsperience is right for ED. The whole point is to make your own story. Not fallow one that is pre-made. and "Dynamic quests or missions" is not at all practical. not even WoW or guild wars, arguably the richest MMOS ever can do this in any cost effective mannor. this is simply a bad idea.

Look, you seem to want to get into an argument about details. You're not a game designer. I'm not a game designer. This is a waste of time. All I will say is that other games with procedural mission systems do a better job of making them interesting, sequential, less derivative, with features like branching points. In other words, decent missions do not require a dedicated full-time writer. But even if they did, what's your point? Most games have to write SOME content, MMO or not, even if it is just playable once. Most MMOs have a limited number of quests, then they have endgame content if you're still interested beyond that point. Expecting elite to have a certain amount of scripted, created content, is not unreasonable. Why do you think it is?

"*More variety within missions
*More sophisticated seeding of procedural generation to avoid the "cookie cutter" problem"

Mission Variaty is not so easy to come up with as you think. come up with ONE that fits within EDs universe , that would be fun and fulfilling. I will conside thos point if someone can actualy make up one that makes sense.
Proceduarl generation... for what? the systems. most of space looks pretty boring... to make rare finds rare... most of space needs to be fairly common... For res sites maybe? There are only so many combinations of ships...

Lol. In logic, this is called an argument from incredulity. In other words, your argument is just that you find it personally hard to believe that any of this is possible. That is not a real argument. "More variety [than elite currently has] in missions" is not implausible or unprecedented in computer games. I can't really believe I'm having to say this.

*Overhaul of existing instanced stuff - CZs should actually have a point or purpose, they should be to secure or take a station or something like that, they should be winnable or losable.

Attacking of stations might be interesting. But doing somthing like this would be dificult to pin the mechanics down.. Planetary bombardments cant happen without landing on planets..so this isnt an option at all until like 1.4 or 1.5... and making CZs "winnable" is a nicce idea. but to make it work in ED would require groups of players and getting people together is sort of like hearding cats. Not a bad idea just.. hard to work out... and if you make CZs winnable by a single player then you just gave players too much power. it Could ruin the game in a completely new way..

I don't really agree with your assessment in terms of how hard something like is to do. That said, I'm not interested in debating it either. I don't care how hard it is. We're just talking about things that would make the game more interesting. In other words, high level features. The implementation is the designers job. I'd imagine some people would have said a universe of 500 billion stars in-game would be impossible. Given you think combat around stations is implausibly difficult to implement, I believe strongly you would have been one of those people. A talented engineer doesn't 1) intuitively evaluate how hard problems are to solve 2) hide from difficult problems.

"RES should actually have some infrastructure in them, some large-scale commercial mining operation should be evidently present, there should be some REASON for them to be where they are, you should be hireable as a merc to defend coporate mining interests, regular visits by big trading ships to take minerals away from static refineries could provide random/timed events, etc."

This might work. but getting the AI to do what you want is hard. Smart AI is dificult to program. given time this may come. but doing this would actualy take longer to make work than introducing something new like power play. Making the simulation work in a way that is clearly visable has a similar problem.
Though i like the "big trading ships thing." i guess that might not be to hard to do. though its a small thing most wouldn't care too much about i feel...

Why is it hard? Are you an AI programmer? It doesn't sound hard to me. At least, no harder than AI is to program generally. There is plenty of precedent for highly sophisticated NPC interaction in games.

Infact, the oly thing that seems actually practical to make work in a timely way would be giving explorers a more active roll in exsporing. Giving them more info on the planets themselves by sending probes or something. That is cool. and the other things you suggest with exsporing might be added easily with each new patch.. probes and Planetary info in 1.4, Commets and large asteriods or dwarf planets in 1.5 and so on..

Overall it seems what people want is impractical and Unwieldy. some of those things would be Absolutely wonderful to see, but would be near impossible to get right. And thus probably be better off waiting/not having some features. If i had to guess why PP was out forth was because its a neat and cool idea that would generate long term interest in the game. It game a direct way to Observe how in game characters interact.

Yeah, I don't agree. I don't really know how hard many of these things would be to do, and for reference, I've been a software engineer for 10 years (not a games developer). You seem very sure they're extremely difficult. So difficult as to be undoable. My intuitive assessment is different. I don't think they sound any more difficult than features in hundreds of modern games. Indeed, I think they sound markedly easier than some of the incredible features ED already has. So, yeah, we disagree.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't, most people have no idea what they're complaining about and sometimes people take it too far, happens too often here...

Not feeling threatened, just a friendly advice to new forum members.

I wouldn't presume to tell "most people" that they "don't know what they're complaining about". Call me old fashioned, but generally if your customers are "doing it wrong" and consequently complaining under false pretences, it's a failing of your design.

 

[Sonoskay]

It doesn't need to be specific. I don't want to design the game. I want them to add content. I want them to invent interesting content which is fun to play.



Look, you seem to want to get into an argument about details. You're not a game designer. I'm not a game designer. This is a waste of time. All I will say is that other games with procedural mission systems do a better job of making them interesting, sequential, less derivative, with features like branching points. In other words, decent missions do not require a dedicated full-time writer. But even if they did, what's your point? Most games have to write SOME content, MMO or not, even if it is just playable once. Most MMOs have a limited number of quests, then they have endgame content if you're still interested beyond that point. Expecting elite to have a certain amount of scripted, created content, is not unreasonable. Why do you think it is?



Lol. In logic, this is called an argument from incredulity. In other words, your argument is just that you find it personally hard to believe that any of this is possible. That is not a real argument. "More variety [than elite currently has] in missions" is not implausible or unprecedented in computer games. I can't really believe I'm having to say this.



I don't really agree with your assessment in terms of how hard something like is to do. That said, I'm not interested in debating it either. I don't care how hard it is. We're just talking about things that would make the game more interesting. In other words, high level features. The implementation is the designers job. I'd imagine some people would have said a universe of 500 billion stars in-game would be impossible. Given you think combat around stations is implausibly difficult to implement, I believe strongly you would have been one of those people. A talented engineer doesn't 1) intuitively evaluate how hard problems are to solve 2) hide from difficult problems.



Why is it hard? Are you an AI programmer? It doesn't sound hard to me. At least, no harder than AI is to program generally. There is plenty of precedent for highly sophisticated NPC interaction in games.



Yeah, I don't agree. I don't really know how hard many of these things would be to do, and for reference, I've been a software engineer for 10 years (not a games developer). You seem very sure they're extremely difficult. So difficult as to be undoable. My intuitive assessment is different. I don't think they sound any more difficult than features in hundreds of modern games. Indeed, I think they sound markedly easier than some of the incredible features ED already has. So, yeah, we disagree.

- - - Updated - - -



I wouldn't presume to tell "most people" that they "don't know what they're complaining about". Call me old fashioned, but generally if your customers are "doing it wrong" and consequently complaining under false pretences, it's a failing of your design.

"Look, you seem to want to get into an argument about details. You're not a game designer. I'm not a game designer. This is a waste of time. All I will say is that other games with procedural mission systems do a better job of making them interesting, sequential, less derivative, with features like branching points. In other words, decent missions do not require a dedicated full-time writer. But even if they did, what's your point? Most games have to write SOME content, MMO or not, even if it is just playable once. Most MMOs have a limited number of quests, then they have endgame content if you're still interested beyond that point. Expecting elite to have a certain amount of scripted, created content, is not unreasonable. Why do you think it is?"

Because this game is about YOUR story, and YOUR experiences. Most of those games that have scripted content have a framework for an over arching story. Even if you don't Peruse them explicitly they are there, and are planned out from the very begining.
this game is not like that at all. You are not a character who roams around and meets and greets people. this is not an RPG, this is a space sim with a universe and story in the background. i can Name numerous great games that never had scripted missions. but had a vague plot and a story happening around you, but you were not involved in. and to me this is one of those.


"Lol. In logic, this is called an argument from incredulity. In other words, your argument is just that you find it personally hard to believe that any of this is possible. That is not a real argument. "More variety [than elite currently has] in missions" is not implausible or unprecedented in computer games. I can't really believe I'm having to say this. "

Your argument seems to be "its not impossible so just do it" You cant seem to give examples, or a clear idea, Just "its possible". Your argument is no stronger than mine.

"Why is it hard? Are you an AI programmer? It doesn't sound hard to me. At least, no harder than AI is to program generally. There is plenty of precedent for highly sophisticated NPC interaction in games. "

this isnt even really true.... There is a reason why basically everything in an open world game acts like a fricken idiot. Heck Im not sure there is a single sandbox or open world game that does AI well. "highly sophisticated NPC interaction in games" Can mean anything from a good and solid Dialog tree to an entirely scripted event that is predetermined and has nothing to do with the AI of a game making decisions

Yeah, I don't agree. I don't really know how hard many of these things would be to do, and for reference, I've been a software engineer for 10 years (not a games developer). You seem very sure they're extremely difficult. So difficult as to be undoable. My intuitive assessment is different. I don't think they sound any more difficult than features in hundreds of modern games. Indeed, I think they sound markedly easier than some of the incredible features ED already has. So, yeah, we disagree.

I never said "undoable" or even meant to imply such. I clearly said "impractical" As in Dificult enough so it might not be worth doing. Time and money are factors here. My final thoughts before bed will be this.

Just because its been done in a game before, does not mean it will work in THIS game. You say there are "hundreds of games that have done these things" Well How many of those were a space sim in the same vein as elite dangerous.?.well... I know there were just under one hundred games that are the same genre. period. and want to know how many of those were made in the last 5 years? ... 13. and how many of those are multiplayer focused? 2 Evocron mercenaries (a horrible clucky game at best) and Elite dangerous. Game genre is an important factor in understand what mechanics will work with what game....

Anyway im off to bed.... im tired... i stayed up an hour past bed time to contrust this pointless fricken discussion. ED will do what ED does....

 

[CMDR MassDef]

Bying a game is also optional. What does this say to you? That people shouldn't complain just because is optional? What kind of irrational logic is that?

 

[Smugallo]

Well. Instead of spending development time developing something fun for us all to play, something worthwhile, they designed the biggest grind yet in the game.

 

[random_tangent]

Dude, little piece of advice: just copy/paste the quote bits so you can quote in blocks, rather than reproducing more or less the entire post you're quoting twice. It takes up so much room.

Because this game is about YOUR story, and YOUR experiences. Most of those games that have scripted content have a framework for an over arching story. Even if you don't Peruse them explicitly they are there, and are planned out from the very begining.
this game is not like that at all. You are not a character who roams around and meets and greets people. this is not an RPG, this is a space sim with a universe and story in the background. i can Name numerous great games that never had scripted missions. but had a vague plot and a story happening around you, but you were not involved in. and to me this is one of those.

All I will say on this point is that you're just telling me what the game means to you. Whereas, I'm suggesting things I believe will make the game more enjoyable and give players more things to do. You saying "but this game shouldn't have those things, because that's not what it's about" is not an argument against this point of view in my opinion. More to the point, ED DOES have missions, so the argument that no such framework should or can exist in the game is patently false.

Your argument seems to be "its not impossible so just do it" You cant seem to give examples, or a clear idea, Just "its possible". Your argument is no stronger than mine.

What? I think you have rather catastrophically missed the point. I'm saying these suggestions will give players SOMETHING to do. Potentially, something INTERESTING! They should be done for that reason, not just because.

this isnt even really true.... There is a reason why basically everything in an open world game acts like a fricken idiot. Heck Im not sure there is a single sandbox or open world game that does AI well. "highly sophisticated NPC interaction in games" Can mean anything from a good and solid Dialog tree to an entirely scripted event that is predetermined and has nothing to do with the AI of a game making decisions

So, to clarify, you're saying having AI mining ships, AI escorts for these ships, AI traders visiting RES to take minerals away, and AI pirates turning up at opportune moments to attack those ships and steal their cargo is not possible? Because that was the example we were talking about. This is more complex than the AI in elite now, because?

I never said "undoable" or even meant to imply such. I clearly said "impractical" As in Dificult enough so it might not be worth doing. Time and money are factors here. My final thoughts before bed will be this.

Yeah, and my point was, and is, that you're pulling "difficult" out of your a**. No offence. From a position of complete ignorance on the subject, this stuff just sounds "impractically difficult" to you, so you're deciding it can't really be done. I have no idea how you got here, honestly.

Just because its been done in a game before, does not mean it will work in THIS game. You say there are "hundreds of games that have done these things" Well How many of those were a space sim in the same vein as elite dangerous.?.well... I know there were just under one hundred games that are the same genre. period. and want to know how many of those were made in the last 5 years? ... 13. and how many of those are multiplayer focused? 2 Evocron mercenaries (a horrible clucky game at best) and Elite dangerous. Game genre is an important factor in understand what mechanics will work with what game....

ED is not multiplayer focussed my friend, not for large numbers of its players. Let's not bring that up though, because it usually results in bad feeling. All I can really say to this is that all the suggestions I made were specifically tailored to ED. There is no reason decent missions, more detailed instanced scenarios and other content wouldn't work in a space sim. None whatsoever.

Anyway im off to bed.... im tired... i stayed up an hour past bed time to contrust this pointless fricken discussion. ED will do what ED does....

Night dude.