Why is the external camera so horribly gimped?

Greetings all,

So back during gamma when I was last playing one of the simple things that was missing was and external camera. I argued strongly in favour of one for many reasons but the simplest is that it gives players the option to enjoy one of the game's main assets (the beauty of space and ships) more. There are lots of other reasons too but let's not get distracted by that now, the only reason argued against it was concern over PvP advantage. Something that was spectacularly unimportant to me but out of deference to those who did find it important I always advocated it being unavailable in open. Anyway I digress.

Upon returning to check the game out one of the things I was most interest in was the fact they gave us access to the external "debug" camera. I was pretty excited by the possibilities both as a video maker and as a means of extending the enjoyment of the game. However, as I'm sure you can tell I was far from impressed by what I found, to say it's gimped is understatement. Frankly its so utterly terribly implemented it would almost be better not to have it at all.

For arguments sake let's just assume for a moment that this is indeed a PvP centric game and therefore preventing PvP advantage is the paramount concern (which seems like the only possible reason for such a hobbled external camera). Yet even under these circumstances I fail to see why there is a massive invisible box around my ship preventing me from getting in close and another preventing me from getting far away. I mean would it really be so bad if I could clip through my ship? I can clip through stations and noone seems to mind. God forbid I might want to fly the camera on a close pass of my own ships, let alone get a shot from inside the bridge without being bolted to the chair.

If it's worth doing, then surely it's worth doing right? For a game that makes such a big thing of community youtube content you'd think they'd want to bend over backwards to help video makers make the game look as good as possible and if players where actually able to use it to enhance their experience than that can only be a good thing right? But I'm not just here to complain, so here's my suggested fixes

1 - Remove clipping box around ship.
2 - Remove confirmation box, or give a don't show again toggle.
3 - provide an auto track ship button (where the camera will remain pointing at the ship as you move it around)
4 - provide an untether button (to release the camera from moving with the ship. combined with above gives the classic flyby shot)
5 - Give us some different control modes in addition to the current "fly" mode. For example orbit, free, maybe even tween through waypoints.
6 - In Solo only (if you must) let us toggle ship control or camera control. Shots of the ship actually flying around, shooting guns, firing thrusters and so one are just better and when not making videos it's still nice to be able to watch from out side as you land/depart a station, blast away at an asteroid with your mining laser or whatever. Yes this is less immersive for some people than being in first person, but please understand that for other people its actually more immersive and enjoyable when you can soak up the environment more. Especially those of us without VR and/or head tracking.
7 - Solo again, save the position of the camera when you jump back into the cockpit so we can nip in and out without losing our shot/camera angle.

Anyway, I'll not hold my breath but it would be really nice to see a little love for the external camera. The return in terms of more and better community content as well as enriching the experience for many regular players would be more than worth the effort in my opinion.
 
And we are led to believe we will be walking around in our ships and perhaps even get to do something as well.
*DISCLAIMER This is not a "Troll" reply so do not attempt to abuse my feedback.
 
It was something bolted on because there was so much clamouring for it. As far as I'm aware there was never intended to be an external camera and the one we have was just a quick bodge.
You're lucky though, we had one on Xbox which worked in supercruise and then they took it away :(
 
And we are led to believe we will be walking around in our ships and perhaps even get to do something as well.
*DISCLAIMER This is not a "Troll" reply so do not attempt to abuse my feedback.

Indeed, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see it fairly soon but it's not really relevant. Walking around doesn't give us external camera functionality and most likely will be limited to something you do when stopped somewhere. You certainly won't be stepping outside your ship while in super cruise to watch the sun receding behind you.

It was something bolted on because there was so much clamouring for it. As far as I'm aware there was never intended to be an external camera and the one we have was just a quick bodge.
You're lucky though, we had one on Xbox which worked in supercruise and then they took it away :(
Quite, it has a bit of a whiff of a sulk about it. Like we don't want to give you an external camera but we can't think of a good enough reason not to so we'll give you the worst one we can come up with. I remember back when we were having the debate in beta/gamma that FDev basically came out and said their vision was first person only. But you know sometimes game designers get funny artsy ideas that in the cold light of gameplay don't add up. I firmly believe this is one of those ideas, it sounds good on the white board but in practice it only detracts from the game. Especially in a world of gaming youtube channels.
 
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I am still trying to figure out the "advantage" part. No wait, I'll fix it: <On WeaponsDeploy disable CheatCam. Cooldown 60 sec.>

Some mad programming skills right there.


2 players, 1 sits in debug cam, other sits in combat, player 1 acts as a spotter. Also that would make it harder to take combat screenshots and if you try and fix the first problem with making it so any combat within 5km or whatever disables camera then you completely kill debug cam for action screenshots
 
It's the debug camera that the devs were using during development. It didn't need to be pretty for what they used it for. Since so many people moaned about an external view, the quickest and easiest thing they could do was give us access to it.

As far as recording flight data for later playback and the making of videos, I've asked for that since the beginning.
 
Perhaps this is something that doesn't need to wait on FDev - because the debug camera is not gameplay, then why not create a tool to override the stupid bodge controls and allow proper camerawork?

The camera position is set by the client machine, so I would think the same tech that some people have used to make cheats should be able to inject more useful overwrites such as setting the debug camera position, thus freeing it from the bodge interface? I think this is possible, am I missing something?
 
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It's actually a dev aid I believe, hence the name Debug Camera.
I'd rather have a camera module for ships, which could be used to record the action and not be a part of it.
The reasons FD gave for not having a better third person view I think have to do with it being an advantage to combat.
o7
 
Perhaps this is something that doesn't need to wait on FDev - because the debug camera is not gameplay, then why not create a tool to override the bodge controls?

The camera position is set by the client machine, so I would think the same tech that some people have used to make cheats should be able to inject useful overwrites such as setting the debug camera position, thus freeing it from the bodge interface? I think this is possible, am I missing something?


Its no doubt possible, you'll just trigger the anticheat and get banned.
 
So many threads on the camera and yet nothing from the devs but the clunky debug camera... :(
It's pretty simple to write rear/side views, somewhat more complicated to write an external view. (Yes, I'm a game dev, yes I've written camera code)
The 'advantage' bit just doesn't fly. Give us our views! Really miss a rear view at least ;*(
 
We just need a record function like in GTA V where you can reedit the camera angles in an editor.
This way you can't use it for cheating but you can make some awesome footage.

This, actually, would be all sorts of awesome...


I totally agree with the OP, by the way. When you fly an Anaconda sized ship, the camera just doesn't zoom out anywhere near as far as it needs to, and yes, the camera itself seems to be the size of small moon, based on the way it keep bumping into stuff stopping you from getting the angle you want...

Z...
 
The "we don't want to give anyone a combat advantage" excuse keeps getting trotted out...

I just can't figure out a use for the external camera that would legit give one player a combat advantage over another. Can anyone advise?
 
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Camera should have been in from the start and not the mickey mouse debug one either.

Games without frontiers, devs without ears...
 
I just want to ability to set rearview to a keybind. Not that I can see rearview at all right now because it's not even a thing. Sigh.
 
FD does not want to include a 3rd-person camera usable while controlling the ship, because it would destroy immersion and totally change the game.

Flight sim devs who are working on halfway-serious flight sims don't bother to make provisions to allow you to fly completely from 3rd-person, do they?

This is Elite, not Starfox. Deal with it.
 
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