Why is there a dense layer of stars slightly above the galactic plane?

[DjVortex]

I was trying to find a route around those pesky restricted star systems around Barnard's Loop, when I noticed that there's an odd dense layer pair of stars slight above the galactic plane. And it's not even a regional thing, as this layer seems to span the entire galaxy, no matter how far I go in the galactic map. Is this intentional, or is it some kind of bug in the star generation, or perhaps a bug in the galactic map itself?

This seems to be the only such layer. Moving up or down reveals no other such layers.

 

[DjVortex]

Hmm, actually, it might not be above the galactic plane. I think I got confused. But anyway, there's still a layer like that at some altitude.

 

[Riverside]

There's a layer of brown dwarfs between around -30 and -45, generally best to avoid it because you can run out of fuel.

I call it the Doldrums (I don't think it's a common name) and it's at the level of the old starter systems. My pet theory is that for whatever reason the starter area was intended to be challenging to jump away from with a scoop fitted to an otherwise stock (7ly) sidewinder, but the layer was applied to the whole galaxy rather than only that region. Other opinions are available, this is mine.

Just a bug in the Stellar Forge, there are lots of them if you are paying attention

 

[marx]

Yep, that's the brown dwarf star layer, which covers most - but not all - of the galaxy. It's not a bug of the galactic map, the stars do exist. I believe it's more likely intentional, to better simulate the distribution of stars around the galactic plane (don't forget that ED's in-game coordinates are centered on Sol, but Sol is slightly above the galactic plane), but maybe it's an unintended result of the Forge.
Either way, it's there to stay.

There are also two other such layers, just not with brown dwarfs: going above or below the plane by around 1,000 ly, certain star types' densities increase dramatically. These are most well known as the neutron star layers, since those are the most useful ones, but it's not just them. For example, take a look at the neutron star map on EDAstro, or the height graphs there.

 

[Ceres_O7]

Looks like the Y layer to me yeah. Filter by star type and you'll see they're all deep red because they're all Y stars. Dangerous to route along if you aren't paying attention.

 

[Kzak]

I believe it's a bug with Stellar Forge and how the galaxy was created. I don't have the image handy at present, but you will find that neutron stars (for neutron boosting/long jumps) are far more common 1,000 LY above or below the 0 axis of the galactic plane.

This is unlikely to be fixed and will persist as long as the game exists. If they make a sequel or new Elite online game at some point, that would be a time to remedy this.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

It's so the illumination is better.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

As others have said, brown dwarf layer. It's not entirely universal - out on the fringes and in the inter-arm voids it thins out too, and in the galactic core you'd have a hard time spotting it, but it's certainly there in all "normal" arm-density regions.

It may even be real: brown dwarf systems in reality would count as "dark matter" and exactly where the dark matter is in the galaxy, what it consists of, and whether different types of it have different distributions is all very much a matter of competing theories; possibly Frontier picked one that involved a brown dwarf plane.

I don't have the image handy at present, but you will find that neutron stars (for neutron boosting/long jumps) are far more common 1,000 LY above or below the 0 axis of the galactic plane.

That's also a consequence of attempted realism with a simplification for fast calculation - stars further away from the galactic plane tend to be older on average, as there's little in the way of new star-forming regions out there, so any high-mass stars will already have gone supernova. You'd expect to find neutron stars and black holes rather than B- and O- class stars up there.

It may be that too many high-mass stars are being generated in general, however, and I don't think the age calculation accounts for the bulge in the thickness of the disk around the galactic core properly.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

As others have said, brown dwarf layer. It's not entirely universal - out on the fringes and in the inter-arm voids it thins out too, and in the galactic core you'd have a hard time spotting it, but it's certainly there in all "normal" arm-density regions.

It may even be real: brown dwarf systems in reality would count as "dark matter" and exactly where the dark matter is in the galaxy, what it consists of, and whether different types of it have different distributions is all very much a matter of competing theories; possibly Frontier picked one that involved a brown dwarf plane.


That's also a consequence of attempted realism with a simplification for fast calculation - stars further away from the galactic plane tend to be older on average, as there's little in the way of new star-forming regions out there, so any high-mass stars will already have gone supernova. You'd expect to find neutron stars and black holes rather than B- and O- class stars up there.

It may be that too many high-mass stars are being generated in general, however, and I don't think the age calculation accounts for the bulge in the thickness of the disk around the galactic core properly.

Seriously? Usually when I see or read sth about Dark Matter noone can say what the dark matter is. Brown dwarfs sound plausible to my unschooled ears.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

So that's why I sometimes find that the route plotter will send me through vast thickets of brown dwarf stars, in which I have to be very careful to occasionally go off-route and find a fuel star if I don't want to end up stranded? Really annoying, especially since usually I don't have to look very hard to find a fuel star, so why can't the plotter?!

Seriously? Usually when I see or read sth about Dark Matter noone can say what the dark matter is. Brown dwarfs sound plausible to my unschooled ears.

Massive Compact Halo Objects such as brown dwarf stars have been largely ruled out as a potential explanation for dark matter. We can't detect enough of them to account for observations.

 

[Crank Larson]

Seriously? Usually when I see or read sth about Dark Matter noone can say what the dark matter is. Brown dwarfs sound plausible to my unschooled ears.

Well that's the point. Dark matter is simply the name given to something we can't explain.

 

[DjVortex]

It may even be real: brown dwarf systems in reality would count as "dark matter" and exactly where the dark matter is in the galaxy, what it consists of, and whether different types of it have different distributions is all very much a matter of competing theories

I'm no astrophysicist and I haven't read a lot about the gravitational anomaly that has led to the dark matter hypothesis, and I only have an extremely cursory and possibly wrong notion of it, but I had the impression that the anomaly is that stars in galaxy move faster around the center of the galaxy than they should (according to normal Keplerian physics), and that this anomaly is resolved (without having to resort to new unknown physics that contradict current knowledge) by having a very large and very massive halo of matter surrounding the galaxy. As in, the majority of this unseen (ie. "dark") matter would be outside the galaxy rather than inside it, surrounding it like a halo. This doesn't sound like it would consists of brown dwarves because they would need to be way out there, and not visible in any way.

But I might have understood incorrectly the phenomenon.

 

[Riverside]

But I might have understood incorrectly the phenomenon.

You and the rest of humanity I'm not aware of any theory that is a good fit for all circumstances, but the one you describe is one & does fit some situations (the sombrero galaxy comes to mind).

One of the things that hooks me into the game is just how educational it is. I have been motivated to research so much by exploring, finding something & googling it to find out more. Before I got this game I had only a cursory knowledge of stuff like the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram & where things were in relation to one another (and how far away). Stellar Forge is a simulation & has lots of mistakes & compromises in it but in spotting these I have come to appreciate just how much work went into it by some very, very clever people

 

[DjVortex]

One of the things that hooks me into the game is just how educational it is. I have been motivated to research so much by exploring, finding something & googling it to find out more. Before I got this game I had only a cursory knowledge of stuff like the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram & where things were in relation to one another (and how far away).

Before ED I had never heard of carbon stars, or Wolf-Rayet stars (even though I'm interested in science, especially astrophysics; go figure).

 

[Shabine]

Well that's the point. Dark matter is simply the name given to something we can't explain.

Dark matter is anything that doesn't interact with the electromagnetic field. It doesn't absorb or reflect electromagnetic radiation, and it doesn't emit any either, so it's hard to find with the tools we currently have available to us. The only reason we think it exists is that galaxies wouldn't work the that they do if it didn't. So, it's an explanation for how the universe does its thing more than anything else.

What's really weird is that there are several theories and temperature calculations that tell us life is actually possible on a brown dwarf, assuming that water vapor is present, which it unfortunately usually isn't. Still, cells could in fact develop there given a) the potential presence of water, and b) that a brown dwarf will eventually cool to roughly "room temperature" or 20–22 °C (68–72 °F) and stay there.

 

[marx]

I'm no astrophysicist and I haven't read a lot about the gravitational anomaly that has led to the dark matter hypothesis, and I only have an extremely cursory and possibly wrong notion of it, but I had the impression that the anomaly is that stars in galaxy move faster around the center of the galaxy than they should (according to normal Keplerian physics), and that this anomaly is resolved (without having to resort to new unknown physics that contradict current knowledge) by having a very large and very massive halo of matter surrounding the galaxy. As in, the majority of this unseen (ie. "dark") matter would be outside the galaxy rather than inside it, surrounding it like a halo. This doesn't sound like it would consists of brown dwarves because they would need to be way out there, and not visible in any way.

But I might have understood incorrectly the phenomenon.

There's quite a lot of observational evidence for dark matter, not just how stars in galaxies would move, but plenty more other phenomena as well, such as how galaxies form, the cosmic microwave background, motions of galaxies, and so on. Quite interestingly, we also know of some galaxies that appear to have next to no dark matter - so, it's not something like tweaking a few interactions and bam, problem solved.
In any case, I recommend reading into the matter, there are plenty of interesting things in there. The Wikipedia article on Dark Matter is a good place to start.

I believe it's a bug with Stellar Forge and how the galaxy was created. I don't have the image handy at present, but you will find that neutron stars (for neutron boosting/long jumps) are far more common 1,000 LY above or below the 0 axis of the galactic plane.

You'll find the images linked in my previous post here.

 

[Shabine]

Quite interestingly, we also know of some galaxies that appear to have no dark matter

If you're referring to DF2, it isn't that there is no dark matter, it's that the dark matter present there is sparse. According to NASA, potentially as low as 2%. A complete absence of dark matter would explain stellar diffusion to a point at which galaxies become "see-through", but it would also result in a total breakdown of the existing theories of how objects within a galaxy function. So dark matter is always present, it just appears to be lacking in some places, and I don't think anyone knows exactly why.

 

[marx]

Right, I was referring to DF2 and DF4, and I actually wanted to amend it to "next to no" instead of "no", but I forgot. Thanks!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well that's the point. Dark matter is simply the name given to something we can't explain.

Yes, but usually you have someone come up with theories. Dark matter is just mystery.

 

[aRJay]

So that's why I sometimes find that the route plotter will send me through vast thickets of brown dwarf stars, in which I have to be very careful to occasionally go off-route and find a fuel star if I don't want to end up stranded? Really annoying, especially since usually I don't have to look very hard to find a fuel star, so why can't the plotter?!


...

Because you are much smarter (have fewer constraints) than the route plotting software.
Rumour has it that the code was discovered in the wreck of a car found on the bed of a river.

Yes, but usually you have someone come up with theories. Dark matter is just mystery.

Which makes Dark Energy just weird.