Why isn't the bandwidth monitor a wallhack?

[Four Muffins]

Been doing lots of wing stuff lately, and people keep asking me to drop from Supercruise so they can check the network traffic, often telling me to do the same. If I say I don't use it, I get a lecture about how wonderful it is to have an early warning system with infinite sensor range that alerts me even before CMDR's spawn in-game.

Given all the rage at loggers, I'd've thought infinite sensor range would be even more hated. Especially when you consider that when a person logs, the game is already over. It's submission, if nothing else. Using the bandwidth monitor gives you a massive, actual, game-in-progress advantage. See a blip on the radar, worried an enemy might be running silent? No worries, control B will not only tell you if an enemy is near, with a bit of practice you can even see how roughly many and how much they're moving. When someone tries to escape or do something clever, there's no need to use a wake scanner or even look, you just jump to a few different systems, and see if the monitor goes up during the loading screen. I've been butchering Feds in Okinura all week with this, since my wingmen invariably use it as a giant platform made of crutches. The degree to which is has increased my body count is immeasurable. How does anyone let anyone get away from them? Ever?

I realise that it's 'in the game', and has some mild practical use (that is already done without cheating). But the quit button and 15 second timer, as well as global application commands, are also in the game. The only reason I can think of for one being treated differently given that one affects gameplay and one affects feelings, is that when a CMDR meets an LGGR, the player loses the chance to feel powerful and awesome. The bandwidth monitor lets the other player feel awesome by making it easy to get lots of privileged information. Logging makes people angry because they feel like they lose, correct? Where as the bandwidth monitor gives them something?

I've been having a look at lots of gameplay videos in the last couple hours... All of them have the bandwidth monitor on. Even people who on these very forums whinge about logging and cheating and Open and L2P. Is every single one of you a cheating wall hacker? And why do you think it's okay to circumvent the limitations of your ship's modules with dev tools?

 

[TheDayman]

It's not really privileged information as everyone has it but yeah, you can go 1 step further and even see who's connecting, when and how. I use it as an early warning system myself, if you want to call it that. But to track their jump without scanning their high wake would be very improbable. It would probably be better if it was a simple "transmitting / receiving" notification instead of the actual bits sent, but even so my FPS noticeably drops if multiple CMDRs are in the same system so even that would be a big hint.

 

[Four Muffins]

Tracking a high wake is super easy. Point at their wake, then target each star in your list. When all three of you line up, jump with the monitor on. =]

 

[babelfisch]

The game isn't about PvP, apart from a handful of people nobody cares.

 

[Four Muffins]

It's about the players, isn't it?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

You can also go to comm panel, second tab to display your friends who are online...as well as the commanders nearby.
You may then see for instance:
- Vulture
- Asp
- Sidewinders
telling you that there are 3 unscanned commanders around.

I have a macro set on my joystick to check quickly this tab, and go back to first tab and close the comm panel once released.
That way, it's easier for me to find commanders on the target panel -> contacts, instead of switching one by one to next contact until I get that damn hollow icon corresponding to the ship i want to fight.

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The game isn't about PvP, apart from a handful of people nobody cares.

Thanks, it makes me feel special

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Is every single one of you a cheating wall hacker? And why do you think it's okay to circumvent the limitations of your ship's modules with dev tools?

Because circling aimlessly a system or RES, to in the end not find any single commander, is highly frustrating.
If everybody would play open, if instancing would be flawless, and if everybody on this planet played ED, the bandwidth monitor would have less reasons to exist.

 

[Four Muffins]

Those are some of the same reasons people give for logging.

 

[xondk]

?

Well the game actually levels the playing field, because bandwidth monitoring has always been possible, in near all games, the real question is who can look at it and get meaningful data, now everyone can with a press of a button, so I don't think it is a bad thing that it exists?

And it isn't anything remotely compared to wall hacks, which allow you to see and act through what would normally be impossible, all things you can do are still based around the game.

 

[Derath]

Its pretty cheesy but the in game tools provided are bad, as somebody else mentioned you can also check the chat list to see who is in what ship in the area, I used to do this while pirating because knowledge is king afterall and cycling through the ships to try and find the T9 was always a pain in the backside.

Its #1 use is killing combat loggers who are too lazy to go to solo or wait a few minutes for you to leave the instance, knowing when people are loading in is pretty imba.

 

[Kazacy]

It takes me as few moths of playing the game before i "discovered" the bandwidth monitor. Because i love pvp i am pretty addicted to this, and to be entirely honest, if FD will remove this from game, i will monitor the traffic on my linux router with a laptop outside the main desktop.
PS: it's very useful to have an old PC with linux to do the routing, you can have vpn to your lan, ftp over vpn from lan, access you raspberry pi secure etc etc.

 

[bladebss]

I dont get it.. how does this help you? If they arnt on you scanner or in your player contacts then they are too far away to matter no? I get silent running helps you sneak and knowing its a player is a big deal but I think people still show up on the contacts menue. I have had people on there but nothing on my scanner before.

pluss I dont use thebandwidth thing..usualy I just can tell a player has entered my instance cus there is a glitch in the matrix. Call it a passive bandwidth monitor lol I cant see how it can help much especialy as you dont need it to know. And I think a wake scanner will be a better tool for playing kiss chase

 

[Kazacy]

I dont get it.. how does this help you? If they arnt on you scanner or in your player contacts then they are too far away to matter no? I get silent running helps you sneak and knowing its a player is a big deal but I think people still show up on the contacts menue. I have had people on there but nothing on my scanner before.

pluss I dont use thebandwidth thing..usualy I just can tell a player has entered my instance cus there is a glitch in the matrix. Call it a passive bandwidth monitor lol I cant see how it can help much especialy as you dont need it to know. And I think a wake scanner will be a better tool for playing kiss chase

Bandwidth monitor is very useful if you want to know fast if you are chased in super cruise or in a res site; it works both ways and is also very useful if you hunt another commanders. Like the romans say:
"Praemonitus praemunitus." If you are too lazy to search on Google the translation is: "Forewarned is forearmed."
Glitch in the matrix huh? I cannot sense this maybe because my nickname it's not Neo
Wake scanner is useless, if i manage to high jump, in the second i arrive in the next system, i drop in normal space then i high jump again in another system from here. If i am followed they will arrive after me and they cannot see my low wake in their instance so i am perfectly safe.

 

[Cmdr Eran Mintor]

If instancing in this game wasn't broken and terrible, the monitor wouldn't be used as much. I use it to see if I'm in a dead instance. Many times I will go to an active warzone and I know hostile Cmdrs are active in supercruise, I can instantly know if my instance is broken or not by using the bandwidth monitor. I don't think it's even close to cheating--you still have to interdict the person and kill/disable them before they can high-wake.

As for not using a wake scanner because you can monitor bandwidth I think you're exaggerating a bit. You will still need a wake scanner unless you have a good idea of where they are rearming or there are such few systems nearby that you already have a large chance to find them on your own, bandwidth monitor or not. As has been mentioned there are other ways to find out where they high-waked just by lining up with the engine exhaust and finding a system in direction of their vector. Also as was just mentioned, if people are smart they can immediately low-wake at target system without even having to wait for the FSD cooldown and at that point you will not find them. Not going to tell you how though, I'll let you figure that one out yourself.

Logging is frowned upon for multiple reasons but I don't count my enemy combat logging as a victory for me. Whatever cargo/merits/bounties/missions they had remain intact and they can just hide in solo till they drop them off or repair or whatever. It is as they say in Shogun Total War, "Shameful dispray!"

 

[Four Muffins]

I see, so logging to save merits is bad, but using infinite sensor range to avoid enemies who take those merits is fine?

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Hang on, is it cheating if I write a script that turns off my boosters with a single button when my shields go down? Because I re-read some comments, and some people use macros. I can't think of anything that is more of a cheat than having something press buttons for you...

This thread has been very enlightening. =]

 

[insanephoton]

Every day's a school day. So essentially this thread shows why requests to remove the hollow square are pointless. As for macros, I've seen the debate in other games, the truth is that whatever you think about them some people will be using them. We've had countless posts about using Voice Attack with ED and no one from FD has said anything to discourage it. Maybe in the heat of a PvP battle it might give an edge, but it's no substitute for skill. There is also the point that macros can make the difference between a disabled player being able to play or not.

 

[Raduk]

It's funny how people justify cheating. And then act all offended when someone else justifies cheating and they don't agree. Just stop cheating. Cheaters. If you have to explain why it's not cheating, it's cheating.

 

[Brujah]

It's funny how people justify cheating. And then act all offended when someone else justifies cheating and they don't agree. Just stop cheating. Cheaters. If you have to explain why it's not cheating, it's cheating.

I'm not convinced the logic is sound there, but I think I know what you mean. Like 'methinks he doth protest too much'?

Anyway, in regards to the bandwidth scanner... this would be the first I've ever heard of it. Is this something that's actually in-game already, or is it some kind of app or something?

 

[insanephoton]

It's already in game (CTRL B) a bit like the frame rate counter (CTRL F). It's probably been in since Alpha, I know the frame rate counter has.

 

[the100thmonkey]

It's a bit gamey, yes. Cheating? Tough question, since it is available to all players. Immersion-breaking? Sure.

 

[racer1]

Been doing lots of wing stuff lately, and people keep asking me to drop from Supercruise so they can check the network traffic, often telling me to do the same. If I say I don't use it, I get a lecture about how wonderful it is to have an early warning system with infinite sensor range that alerts me even before CMDR's spawn in-game.

Given all the rage at loggers, I'd've thought infinite sensor range would be even more hated. Especially when you consider that when a person logs, the game is already over. It's submission, if nothing else. Using the bandwidth monitor gives you a massive, actual, game-in-progress advantage. See a blip on the radar, worried an enemy might be running silent? No worries, control B will not only tell you if an enemy is near, with a bit of practice you can even see how roughly many and how much they're moving. When someone tries to escape or do something clever, there's no need to use a wake scanner or even look, you just jump to a few different systems, and see if the monitor goes up during the loading screen. I've been butchering Feds in Okinura all week with this, since my wingmen invariably use it as a giant platform made of crutches. The degree to which is has increased my body count is immeasurable. How does anyone let anyone get away from them? Ever?

I realise that it's 'in the game', and has some mild practical use (that is already done without cheating). But the quit button and 15 second timer, as well as global application commands, are also in the game. The only reason I can think of for one being treated differently given that one affects gameplay and one affects feelings, is that when a CMDR meets an LGGR, the player loses the chance to feel powerful and awesome. The bandwidth monitor lets the other player feel awesome by making it easy to get lots of privileged information. Logging makes people angry because they feel like they lose, correct? Where as the bandwidth monitor gives them something?

I've been having a look at lots of gameplay videos in the last couple hours... All of them have the bandwidth monitor on. Even people who on these very forums whinge about logging and cheating and Open and L2P. Is every single one of you a cheating wall hacker? And why do you think it's okay to circumvent the limitations of your ship's modules with dev tools?

You could easily monitor it outside of ED so it is not possible to ban it IMO.

I started using it to work out when I would be exiting hyperspace during hyperspace lag. But as you say I have also noticed it lets you know if other CMDRs are about and I use it for that now. Not sure how much of an advantage it really is.