Elite / Frontier Why isn't their a alternative to the Elite series?

[Sir.Tj]

Seems strange that after 15 odd years their still hasn't been any game/sim thats come out that compares to Elite/FE/FFE.

You would have thought that their would have been at least one that either compares against Elite, or stands out from the others as a superior experiance.

Seems that everyting that has been produced so far is lacking in size of Galaxy, freedom of exploration or depth of gameplay.

The whole genre is screaming out for a great space sim (as well as most posters on this forum )

 

[Spacegamer]

I tend to think the reason we have not seen any Frontier like game is to do with the creation of content for the planets ie this being the formula

Planet = content = time = MONEY

If you look the last game released which let you fly from space to the planet surface “The Tomorrow War” There still not a lot on the ground apart from a few buildings and some trees. Not much of an improvement over Frontiers.

Still as the game only about 5 years old, it gives some idea what a modern Frontier could be like.

 

[aster]

Seems strange that after 15 odd years their still hasn't been any game/sim thats come out that compares to Elite/FE/FFE.

You would have thought that their would have been at least one that either compares against Elite, or stands out from the others as a superior experiance.

Seems that everyting that has been produced so far is lacking in size of Galaxy, freedom of exploration or depth of gameplay.

The whole genre is screaming out for a great space sim (as well as most posters on this forum )

Actually even as an Elite fan I still consider Sundog (for Atari ST) to be a superior game. It was also released in 1984, with the ST version (much improved graphics) released a year later.

For starters you can even walk around your ship. When landed in cities you can go out and explore them, you can even walk into buildings (shops, hotels, bars, banks). Moreover, you can even walk (or drive) out of town to travel between two cities this way.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/sundog-frozen-legacy/screenshots

Here are some screenshots.

 

[Steve]

All I can think of is that other developers don't want to be accused of an Elite/Frontier rip-off, but would rather try and create their own slice of history.

But I agree, no-one's managed to improve the genre so far

 

[turwhitt]

TBH i would now happily buy and play a "cheap'n'dirty"* space game - providing it was good fun and had reasonably high production values. Although it was a little of a guilty pleasure i did really enjoy Darkstar One for example.


*i.e. non-Newtonian, space candied, unrealistic economy etc.

 

[Steve O B Have]

TBH i would now happily buy and play a "cheap'n'dirty"* space game - providing it was good fun and had reasonably high production values. Although it was a little of a guilty pleasure i did really enjoy Darkstar One for example.


*i.e. non-Newtonian, space candied, unrealistic economy etc.

I'd have to admit to initially enjoying it as well - until it became a solid rinse repeat experience - that totally killed it for me.

 

[DraQ]

I think that the problem with spacesims is that they took a wrong turn - instead of focusing on mhat they could do better than other games, on ways of appealing to their own consumerbase (blah, scary buzzwords), they underwent simplification, dumbing down and streamlining, got mainstreamed and outcompeted by FPS games because they simply ran out of elements they were actually made of. There is little left in spacesim if you cut the space out.

 

[SuperG]

I disagree.
FPS hooters rule because they are very accesable and do well on PC and consoles. And also largly driven by competing Mplay.
Most FPS are dumb down unrealistic fast aktion shooter.
For trigger twitch fast as fly's game play.
Games where gamers don't need or rely on manuals or ingame help function.
A Gamepad or keybouard layout wil do.


Space game are more complex steep learning curve much more deep. difficult to re pick up if doing a other game in between.

This makes Space games also a niche market higher risk game to funding and more expensive and need more Q&A.

Dumb down you loose some space sim extrimist but gain a larger crowed.

It's possible to shift from a smal niche markt to bigger nich or even reach the mainstream audience.


If DB want to make something the same as ELite or frontier wich means not as accesable by average gamer but more delivering to some hardcore extrimist realism real Physics gamers.
Well that marktet is to small.

So the team should be small and the funding to. Publishers aren't to fond to support such niche, and frontier would be have difficulty to get a publsher.
Unless the budged needed is keped low.
Like Sun of solar impire game.

It would not stand out agianst any triple A game or even less on GFX out there .
But deliver game play to the hardcore crowed.

And Mplay and MMO will brake that into a different beast.

So the bigger space games recent out now they are mostly low budged and independant in a way.

example one of the best selling sequal of today is COD: BO.
BEcause it's
Crossplatform
Hardcore arcade FPS
strong mplay
very accesable
well known by current gen of gamers.

elite frontier.

A accient not wellknown IP to current gamers generation. Wich is much larger and consist of regular people ( consoles) then the nerdy market 20 to 30 years ago. With use the for runners of PC
And because of that percived as dead. While duke nukem doesn't come but is allive and workd on.

Realism, the bulk of gamers game to escape reality and have some fun in a basic simplified rules in a virtual world.
This Elite falls under simulation market, wich is a lot smaller. The kind of gamer that go for the chalange of mastering a space ship.

So it make sense to me that space roaming genre fails.

Also in this industry it's important to have very sucsesfull similar games out now. So publisher can see the market potentional. BEcause the lack off that.
Green lighting such game is something not done.
So we as gamers depend largly on the relative bigger funded professional independand studio's. To deliver our niche games.

 

[aster]

If DB want to make something the same as ELite or frontier wich means not as accesable by average gamer but more delivering to some hardcore extrimist realism real Physics gamers.
Well that marktet is to small.

I don't think we need something "realistic" in terms of physics, as that would surely make a game boring and unplayable.

The thing is that with games like Elite, a sequel is more likely to succeed simply because of the legendary status of the original game. It would be titled "the long-awaited sequel" in all computer mags and would create a stir instantly.

I still get that funny feeling that legal issues might be involved, because otherwise I think we would have already seen the start of such a project.

 

[Spacegamer]

I still get that funny feeling that legal issues might be involved, because otherwise I think we would have already seen the start of such a project.

I think it probably just a case of the company getting too big now to take a risk of self-financing a game, I think that was made clear from the shenanigans that went on with the Outsider.

Like a lot other developers they have become stuck in a rut and are unable to get out of it, where they are know for making just one type of game. In Frontier case, kid friendly games.

 

[SuperG]

I think that the problem with spacesims is that they took a wrong turn - instead of focusing on mhat they could do better than other games, on ways of appealing to their own consumerbase (blah, scary buzzwords), they underwent simplification, dumbing down and streamlining, got mainstreamed and outcompeted by FPS games because they simply ran out of elements they were actually made of. There is little left in spacesim if you cut the space out.

I don't think so.
The unrealistic fps out compete the milsimgame fps.
So the mainstream gamer prefere unrealistic game.
These unreal fps are simplified. Dumb down and rule sales charts.

The milsim have the depth. are more feature complete do large scale war fare. But is to much for mainstream.

Most gamers game to escape reality while, some like simulation of reality. The first tend to be the bigger crowed.
There are even platforms dedicated to that. especialy Nintendo.

The sucses of a huge hit lies more in simplicity axcesability and mplay competing gameplay. Some genres are more suitable to archieve that.

Games that depend on manual keeps gamers away.

So what makes a sucsesfull space game in these days where gaming is much more common then ever before.

* Needs to be very accesable like a fps shooter or rpg or mix with a more inutive interface you can hide some complexity or depth, even make it accesable enough.
* needs enough freedom with point of interrest ratio. If Earth is to large for squad based infantery fps game. The universe even one galacy is to big for a space game. Like the semi freedom fps shooter has a island. that large enough. Even voor full scale war fare like Arma.
So for space less then 1000 places wich need lots off variation in points of interrest ships and aliens

* needs diversity on gameplay, some prefere trading other space combat.
* needs optional story.
* needs a theme that attrack mainstream intterest like scfi franchises wich are mostly soft scifi to even fantasy.
* GFX must be up to date but need out compete.
* needs to be crossplatform with full platform optimisation.

A good example would be freelancer like game.
or even a Freelancer mass effect hybrid.
taking the stargate franchise as a theme.

 

[aster]

The next Elite should really be of the MMORPG sort, something that will put everyone online and rake in a monthly fee for the game's operator. I simply cannot imagine Elite 4 being a just a standard game - with no online interraction - but just a regular install from a disc and playing against AI.

 

[SuperG]

I don't think we need something "realistic" in terms of physics, as that would surely make a game boring and unplayable.

Somehow I said that in other words more or less.

The thing is that with games like Elite, a sequel is more likely to succeed simply because of the legendary status of the original game. It would be titled "the long-awaited sequel" in all computer mags and would create a stir instantly.

I think it is more legandary by the industry and older gen of gamers.
because gaming is a lot more common then before and many young adults game. This IP is before there time. And exclude all children wich game mostly on consoles these day's.

I think Frontier needs to make a full marketing effort just as if it was a new IP.

I think mostmodern gamers would be more atracted to a game based on current scifi ips like stargate or BSG IP. Then a old forgotten or even unkown for them dusty IP.