WiFi streaming perfectly smooth for awhile then extreme judder then smooth again.

[aXeL]

Evening all, repeated re-plugging of the USB-C connector on my Pico 4U has made it loose and now it's only good for charging and USB-2. So, I've started using the WiFi in earnest. The graphics and streaming settings are the same as I used when using USB 3. On USB-3 everything is nice and fluid, by my low standards anyway.

When I play via WiFi, the audio and graphics are smooth for awhile then I'll get 2-3 seconds of extreme judder, almost freezes, of sound and graphics ( perfectly synchronised ) and then it will be smooth again. I've tried two different routers, two WiFi hotspot NICs, different channels, all either WiFi 6ax or 7be. I've tried changing frequencies and various other WiFi settings, high and low bit rates, different codecs, flitting between different versions of Virtual Desktop, Pico Connect and sundry other settings.

I'm using Ultra settings in game but with SS x1.0, HMD x1.0, SteamVR resolution 400%, as mentioned, all settings which are fine streaming over USB 3.

The only thing which reduces the problem it is to lower the streaming resolution and the SteamVR resolution. If I go low enough I can reduce the effect to sporadic microstutter but that defeats the objective. At this point I've pretty much given up and gone back to my G2. In hindsight I should've used a sacrificial USB connector which would've stayed permanently connected. Pico really didn't think that through IMO, unlike HP when going from the G1 to the G2.

I canvased a bunch of the AI's too. Half of them suggested things I've already tried and the other half of them basically give me the long version of, "You want to stream for 2x2160 panels with SteamVR 400% over WiFi? - Good luck with that".

Not very helpful.

Am I missing something?

 

[Arioch]

"You want to stream for 2x2160 panels with SteamVR 400% over WiFi? - Good luck with that"

Not very helpful, but yeah, good luck with that

(Have you tried OpenComposite instead of SteamVR, with Virtual Desktop using SnapDragon super resolution? I’ve been tinkering with it recently and I’ve changed my view of VD - I get a better picture and performance than with the official Meta link software)

 

[aXeL]

Not very helpful, but yeah, good luck with that

(Have you tried OpenComposite instead of SteamVR, with Virtual Desktop using SnapDragon super resolution? I’ve been tinkering with it recently and I’ve changed my view of VD - I get a better picture and performance than with the official Meta link software)

Thanks for the thought, I've tried using Virtual Desktop in both SteamVR API mode and VXDR API with OpenComposite ( both with and without OpenXR ). I've tried with and without super resolution ( that's done in hardware on the XR2 BTW ).

 

[DeckerSolo]

I stream ED using VD & OpenComposite to my Q3, and fortunately don't suffer the stuttering you are experiencing.
I'm assuming that your PC is Ethernet hardwired to your router, a requirement for VD.
I use a dedicated to Q3 headset WiFi range extender ethernet hardwired to my router.

 

[aXeL]

I stream ED using VD & OpenComposite to my Q3, and fortunately don't suffer the stuttering you are experiencing.
I'm assuming that your PC is Ethernet hardwired to your router, a requirement for VD.
I use a dedicated to Q3 headset WiFi range extender ethernet hardwired to my router.

This is reassuring because it obviously is do-able. Yes, I'm using ethernet, PC to router. In fact the point of the two different hotspots I tried, on the PC, was to take the router out of the equation entirely and just have dedicated P2P connectivity so I'm using fewer hops. Latency is lower but it doesn't impact the judder unfortunately. That I've tried physically different hardware and connection pathways, except for the headset itself and nothing seems to stop it, is vexing.

I'm half tempted to run down to PCWorld tomorrow and pick up a Quest 3. If I didn't already have a G2, I probably would've tried a Q3 already, same XR2 and all that.

As it is, I'll go back to WMR and see if I can get the Pico fixed so I can have wired again, although I'm of half a mind to just chuck the Pico in the bin for all the trouble it will be to get it fixed, assuming they will even do so.

 

[DeckerSolo]

This is reassuring because it obviously is do-able. Yes, I'm using ethernet, PC to router. In fact the point of the two different hotspots I tried, on the PC, was to take the router out of the equation entirely and just have dedicated P2P connectivity so I'm using fewer hops. Latency is lower but it doesn't impact the judder unfortunately. That I've tried physically different hardware and connection pathways, except for the headset itself and nothing seems to stop it, is vexing.

I'm half tempted to run down to PCWorld tomorrow and pick up a Quest 3. If I didn't already have a G2, I probably would've tried a Q3 already, same XR2 and all that.

As it is, I'll go back to WMR and see if I can get the Pico fixed so I can have wired again, although I'm of half a mind to just chuck the Pico in the bin for all the trouble it will be to get it fixed, assuming they will even do so.

I ditched SteamVR for OpenComposite which for me improved performance and quality.

 

[pFVD]

No idea if it's possible for the Pico, but you can use a USB C Ethernet adapter with the Quest 2/3s/3 (I use one with PoE on my Quest 3). More expense of course, but its not a huge expense.

 

[aXeL]

No idea if it's possible for the Pico, but you can use a USB C Ethernet adapter with the Quest 2/3s/3 (I use one with PoE on my Quest 3). More expense of course, but its not a huge expense.

As mentioned, the USB port is partly knackered so it only works at USB 2.0 speed. I could use one of my usb-c ethernet adapters but since it can't go any faster than USB 2.0 speed, I'm not quite following what the benefit would be over just using the USB cable at USB 2 speed.

 

[aXeL]

So it looks like the problem is that, I had being using USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which is 20Gbit and my WiFi can't begin to compete so, for the resolution scaling I'm running, WiFi can't sustain the compression which explains why it's only graphically complex scenes choking it and why it's fine on USB where there's much less compression.

However, I would be interested to know if anyone else with a Pico 4U or Quest 3 ( same processor ) can play at SteamVR 400% and game settings on Ultra, without getting any moments of audio and graphics freezes/judder. ( Looking hopefully @DeckerSolo ). Even if you're not running a 5090, I'd be looking to see if the framerate stays reasonably consistent at those settings or if, in complex scenes, e.g. approaching stations, leaving landing bays, approaching rings, you also see moments of gltiching.

 

[Arioch]

So it looks like the problem is that, I had being using USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which is 20Gbit and my WiFi can't begin to compete so, for the resolution scaling I'm running, WiFi can't sustain the compression which explains why it's only graphically complex scenes choking it and why it's fine on USB where there's much less compression.

However, I would be interested to know if anyone else with a Pico 4U or Quest 3 ( same processor ) can play at SteamVR 400% and game settings on Ultra, without getting any moments of audio and graphics freezes/judder. ( Looking hopefully @DeckerSolo ). Even if you're not running a 5090, I'd be looking to see if the framerate stays reasonably consistent at those settings or if, in complex scenes, e.g. approaching stations, leaving landing bays, approaching rings, you also see moments of gltiching.

Why not decrease SteamVR down to 100% and then increase it until judder kicks in?

 

[aXeL]

Why not decrease SteamVR down to 100% and then increase it until judder kicks in?

Good question. From my perspective, I didn't buy a 5090 so I could start dialling my settings 'down'. The whole point was to max everything out, otherwise I may as well have stayed with my 3090 and G2.

Not a dig Arioch, I totally get your point.

 

[Arioch]

Good question. From my perspective, I didn't buy a 5090 so I could start dialling my settings 'down'. The whole point was to max everything out, otherwise I may as well have stayed with my 3090 and G2.

Not a dig Arioch, I totally get your point.

It would at least give you an idea about the problem - if you still get judder at 100% SteamVR resolution then there is some other issue at play.

Although I don’t use SteamVR, I use my Quest 3 via Wi-Fi with in-game super-sampling at 1.25 and stream rate of 200mbps, most settings High/Ultra, with a RTX 4070ti. I’ve recently started using Virtual Desktop and the SnapDragon super resolution option has added a nice visual bonus clarity to my VR games, Elite included.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I have nothing productive to contribute, but topics like this make me think my rig (5900X with a 3080 Ti) is really starting to age. Playing at 400%? That sounds like crazytalk to me.

 

[aXeL]

I have nothing productive to contribute, but topics like this make me think my rig (5900X with a 3080 Ti) is really starting to age. Playing at 400%? That sounds like crazytalk to me.

Well it kinda turned out that you're right - 'crazy talk'

 

[aXeL]

It would at least give you an idea about the problem - if you still get judder at 100% SteamVR resolution then there is some other issue at play.

Although I don’t use SteamVR, I use my Quest 3 via Wi-Fi with in-game super-sampling at 1.25 and stream rate of 200mbps, most settings High/Ultra, with a RTX 4070ti. I’ve recently started using Virtual Desktop and the SnapDragon super resolution option has added a nice visual bonus clarity to my VR games, Elite included.

Now I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in with my Quest.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Well it kinda turned out that you're right - 'crazy talk'

Well we all talk crazy, right? For my case with my G2, I am actually looking into optimizing it all over again - look forward to me necroing the odd thread shortly . With SteamVR, I usually play at a max of 70%, which is about 2500x2500 per eye IIRC. anything beyond that and it gets bleh very quickly when things get busy. This really sucks. I suspect WMR plus SteamVR just plain sucks. I've tried OpenComposite, but I've had some issues. I've been binging the sparse documentation - OpenComposite sucks in that regard, but the docs for OpenXR Toolkit is very helpful. Stay tuned for more nonsene from me .

 

[aXeL]

What's been the challenge with OC? I've been using it from it's inception, warts and all, but 'generally' it works well for me, particularly with my G2. I'm wondering if there's some setting or startup sequence I do differently, whereby it would 'just work'(tm). For the Pico it was, generally, ok with VDXR.

I'll happily compete with you for nonsense

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

basically this:

Open Composite - On foot weapon glitches.

Hey guys, I use Open Composite for Elite and Virtual Desktop set to VDXR. It runs fantastic. However i have a weird issue when i go on foot. The 2D on Foot screen is fine. The FPS is fine and the camera movement is smooth. However i get glitches with the weapon models when i turn. They kinda...

forums.frontier.co.uk

And of course the dance you have to do to get EDHM working, but that's minor in comparision to NOT BE ABLE TO AIM!!!!!

The other issue has been driving me nuts for I can't even remember how long anymore.

 

[DeckerSolo]

So it looks like the problem is that, I had being using USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 which is 20Gbit and my WiFi can't begin to compete so, for the resolution scaling I'm running, WiFi can't sustain the compression which explains why it's only graphically complex scenes choking it and why it's fine on USB where there's much less compression.

However, I would be interested to know if anyone else with a Pico 4U or Quest 3 ( same processor ) can play at SteamVR 400% and game settings on Ultra, without getting any moments of audio and graphics freezes/judder. ( Looking hopefully @DeckerSolo ). Even if you're not running a 5090, I'd be looking to see if the framerate stays reasonably consistent at those settings or if, in complex scenes, e.g. approaching stations, leaving landing bays, approaching rings, you also see moments of gltiching.

Well after reinstalling SteamVR I gave 400% a go and got 18fps in stations and 25fps in space.
Playable but I can't see why this resolutions is needed, I couldn't see any difference in image quality to SteamVR at 150%

Just to clarrify my setting to get this. Ryzen 9 7950x3d, 64GB DDR5 6000MTs, RTX 4090, 4K dual monitors, Quest 3 with WiFi connection as detailed earlier, Virtual Desktop, SteamVR (for this test), all Game setting High or Ultra with SS x1.0 and upscaling Normal.

I'll be going back to OpenComposite.

 

[aXeL]

Well after reinstalling SteamVR I gave 400% a go and got 18fps in stations and 25fps in space.
Playable but I can't see why this resolutions is needed, I couldn't see any difference in image quality to SteamVR at 150%

Just to clarrify my setting to get this. Ryzen 9 7950x3d, 64GB DDR5 6000MTs, RTX 4090, 4K dual monitors, Quest 3 with WiFi connection as detailed earlier, Virtual Desktop, SteamVR (for this test), all Game setting High or Ultra with SS x1.0 and upscaling Normal.

I'll be going back to OpenComposite.

Thanks for looking into this, t'is kind of you. Interesting that you don't see a difference whereas for me it's quite pronounced, especially around things like text, the docking toaster rack, fine detail on ships etcetera. I wonder if I have been using other settings which actually made aliasing worse then and the higher supersampling offsets it . Maybe it will be different for the Q3 with its, I've read, superior lenses to the Pico.