Will / Can we ever have City Planets and Full Atmospherics?

Chazzie

Chazzie
While playing away on Elite, I landed on some random ringed planet some 2000 ly from Colonia to do some raw material mining - while driving up a hill I was hit by a spectacular view of the systems sun shining through the planets rings against a field of stars, it was truly a ‘wow’ momen.

But it got me thinking - could Elite ever manage full weather patterns - like flying through a rain storm with the rain streaking across your cockpit, the storm clouds of a gas giant, a dense forest world or the best yet - a city world bathed in neon future tech?

What do you think? Personally I don’t think it can but I can hope!
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
I doubt they’re sizing up 'city planets', or will ever achieve a 'high population' effect. But something further down the scale might come some day. They’ve touched on related stuff over the years...

Domed cities / 'tourism' planets / fauna / cloud tech for gas giants etc:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/50mp6q
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/50mp6q/the_braben_lave_radio_interview_summary/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Weather not coming in EDO, but possibly in the future:

The only quote I've seen on weather was a 'not at launch' one:

Is there going to be any weather system affecting players and/or their ships on planets, such as thunderstorms or dust storms?

Luke Betterton: At launch, Odyssey will allow players to land in thin atmospheres which won’t have aggressive weather fronts of this kind, but we would love to bring those to Elite Dangerous: Odyssey in the future.
Click to expand...

(And prior to that they were still undecided on how the flight model might be affected by thin atmospheres).

And of course ancient days proc gen cloud prototypes from back in 2012 or so ;)
 
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Jace Harriman

Jace Harriman
I think there's always going to be worlds we can't land on / fly through the atmosphere of. If you think about how big and complex a game Microsoft Flight Simulator is, and then imagine that a thousand times over for all the populated planet out there - our computers would burst into flames even trying to handle that. I imagine that there will always be a "this planet is too populated, you cannot get flight clearance" barrier.

Thicker atmospheres with weather patterns does seem like a good/logical next step for the game, though. It would mean developing an aerodynamics model, but a fluid is a fluid, so if they design that right it could cover everything from Mars-style dust storms to gas giants to going underwater on Europa. That's a whole lot of work, almost certainly another Odyssey level expansion, but it would generate a lot of content both for the space game and the ground game. Weather is going to affect players on foot just as much as it affects those in ships. If aerodynamics becomes a factor, then suddenly the viability of different ships changes. A Type 9 is going to behave differently to a Cutter, a small ship is going to have an easier time than a large, an Eagle is probably going to fly better in atmosphere than a Vulture. The older games have a wealth of atmospheric fighters to draw from. Storms can potentially damage outposts and trigger missions. That's definitely an expansion-level amount of content.
 

here_it_comes

here_it_comes
They can't manage to model the insides of our ships for the legs release and you're talking about jungle worlds and planet-scaled cities.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should dial your optimism down several notches.
 

thistle

T
here_it_comes said:
They can't manage to model the insides of our ships for the legs release and you're talking about jungle worlds and planet-scaled cities.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should dial your optimism down several notches.
Click to expand...
Chazzie wasn't asking for or expecting those things in Odyssey, just asking if they are possible. Which of course they are, they just aren't working on them lol.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
here_it_comes said:
They can't manage to model the insides of our ships for the legs release and you're talking about jungle worlds and planet-scaled cities.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should dial your optimism down several notches.
Click to expand...


Complex planets and ship interiors are both things on the ancient roadmap, demarked as stand-alone DLCs. They’re both things that FDev have ultimately marketed and pre-sold with the LEP:

Newsletter 29: Lifetime Expansion Pass - to be withdrawn from sale

We do intend to release small, free updates after launch, but expansions that include significant new features and content will be charged for separately. For example, our current roadmap is to add (in no particular order):

  • Landing/ driving / prospecting on airless rocky planets, moons & asteroids[DONE]
  • Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
  • Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
  • Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces
  • Availability of giant ‘executive control’ ships to players
Click to expand...

Expecting either of these flagship additions to be in this DLC, when it fits the old 'station interiors' profile, is probably unrealistic.

Hoping that both will come eventually, in future DLCs, seems perfectly reasonable though ;)
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Wrecked said:
It’s possible, look at Star Citizen. I don’t see it happening any time soon, though. I would think it would be near impossible without dropping previous gen consoles and raising the minimum PC requirements.
Click to expand...


That’s a risky take. You could equally say: Look at Star Citizen, it’s not possible ;)

I do like their landable planets, in fairness. They have solid variety and detail, at all the scale you need, and look plenty decent for an MMO. It’s just every other aspect of the game that’s broken ;). (And stuff like ships/vehicles falling through surfaces regularly, despawning, and even blowing away in the wind, mean even planets aren’t spared from that architectural anguish...)

The city planet does look a’ight though. It just feels like a bit of a folly, given it renders 99.99% of the planet unlandable / unusable.
 

Wrecked

Wrecked
[VR] Golgot said:
That’s a risky take. You could equally say: Look at Star Citizen, it’s not possible ;)...
Click to expand...
Are you saying ArcCorp isn't working? Most of it isn't landable, but when one of the billion underlying game bugs doesn't trigger, you can definitely... eh... experience it. But true, if you could land outside of the major port cities, there'd be nothing to do anyways. Getting a truly convincing and bustling Coruscant like planet in a video game that simulates the activities you could do in real life across the entire planet must be decades away and will require more computing power than the we'll have for quite some time.
 

govny

govny
here_it_comes said:
They can't manage to model the insides of our ships for the legs release and you're talking about jungle worlds and planet-scaled cities.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you should dial your optimism down several notches.
Click to expand...
more like: they don't want to waste time and money to model the inside of our ships because it adds almost nothing to the game.
 

hems303

hems303
Chazzie said:
While playing away on Elite, I landed on some random ringed planet some 2000 ly from Colonia to do some raw material mining - while driving up a hill I was hit by a spectacular view of the systems sun shining through the planets rings against a field of stars, it was truly a ‘wow’ momen.

But it got me thinking - could Elite ever manage full weather patterns - like flying through a rain storm with the rain streaking across your cockpit, the storm clouds of a gas giant a dense forest world or the best yet - a city world bathed in neon future tech?

What do you think? Personally I don’t think it can but I can hope!
Click to expand...
what a bit like this??

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLUR7m3aBC8


or this??

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppg5huhCi-M&t=0s

... if 'fan artists' can produce such.. I'm sure FDev can... if it is worth their while...... o7

Edit: In the first clip, I keep looking out for the tsunami as in the water world incident in the film 'Interstellar'... lol ('Miller's Planet' if I remember correctly)
 
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thistle

T
They could do any of these things, it's just a question of whether they actually decide to do it. As hems303 says, it needs to be worth their while doing.
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
The technology to enable planet sized cities like coruscant from star wars, which btw are called an ecumenopolis, would be procedural generated cities, and the good news is that they are a well-known set of technologies. A good introduction can be seen by watching this trailer,
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AIpncO_9I

Checks this out from 2009:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2-PtK4F6Y


And the basic premise can be refined and the proc gen process "guided":
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1eZOV8r_g4


For the green spaces of ELW's there is always "outerra"
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGMs7Iem3Vg&feature=emb_logo

Which can even handle varying climates / ecologies:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJUPdABgsrA&feature=emb_logo

...and deformable terrain...
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRpkj4HXF40&feature=emb_logo


I haven't looked into proc gen flaura and fauna, but I know it is doable from No Mans Sky. So In summary, I don't think Frontier are ready to even contemplate an earthlike or an ecumenopolis, but there are tools and procedures available for doing them ready for Frontier to avail themselves of.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
[VR] Jay Le Chardon said:
The technology to enable planet sized cities like coruscant from star wars, which btw are called an ecumenopolis, would be procedural generated cities, and the good news is that they are a well-known set of technologies. A good introduction can be seen by watching this trailer,
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AIpncO_9I

Checks this out from 2009:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d2-PtK4F6Y


And the basic premise can be refined and the proc gen process "guided":
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1eZOV8r_g4


For the green spaces of ELW's there is always "outerra"
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGMs7Iem3Vg&feature=emb_logo

Which can even handle varying climates / ecologies:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJUPdABgsrA&feature=emb_logo

...and deformable terrain...
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRpkj4HXF40&feature=emb_logo


I haven't looked into proc gen flaura and fauna, but I know it is doable from No Mans Sky. So In summary, I don't think Frontier are ready to even contemplate an earthlike or an ecumenopolis, but there are tools and procedures available for doing them ready for Frontier to avail themselves of.
Click to expand...

Kudos for teaching me an excellent new word - ecumenopolis. I may never use it, but I enjoy cool words.

Plus, it's almost an ecumenical matter I fear...! ;)
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Wrecked said:
Are you saying ArcCorp isn't working? Most of it isn't landable, but when one of the billion underlying game bugs doesn't trigger, you can definitely... eh... experience it. But true, if you could land outside of the major port cities, there'd be nothing to do anyways. Getting a truly convincing and bustling Coruscant like planet in a video game that simulates the activities you could do in real life across the entire planet must be decades away and will require more computing power than the we'll have for quite some time.
Click to expand...


I guess I’m saying it’s more functional than most, because there’s less gameplay there to bug out ;)

But yeah this is it. With no gameplay in a mega city, it just feels like a thin addition. Having active NPCs and tasks to track down / jeopardy there etc would flip that, but it’s just such a big ask at this point technically. (ED could certainly benefit from some bespoke follies in some of its permit locked regions, but it all still risks just being an asset backdrop if there’s less functionality there than normal).
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
I don't think there are any ecumeopolisses (ecumenopolii? ecumenopolicies?) in ED, according to lore. Even the biggest, most crowded planets like Earth and Achenar have plenty of green space and "wilderness", even if it's carefully cultivated, artificial wilderness like on terraformed Mars.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Sapyx said:
I don't think there are any ecumeopolisses (ecumenopolii? ecumenopolicies?) in ED, according to lore. Even the biggest, most crowded planets like Earth and Achenar have plenty of green space and "wilderness", even if it's carefully cultivated, artificial wilderness like on terraformed Mars.
Click to expand...

When you have the galaxy at your fingertips, there is no need to cram together. I'd expect domes but nothing more than that- it would help the design too, since it would destroy the networking if you had to keep everything going spread out all over the planet.
 
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