Woah Repair Costs Go Up?

[n13L5]

on my first save i rushed to the Conda, that was a dreadful grind experience and i also found out that it was not that fun to fly once i got to it,
that is a matter of opinion ofc, some people might love to fly it, but i got it as a combat vessel and found it just horrible in that role, slow and sluggish, and if i ever get a Conda again i will only use it as a armed trader.

on my current save i stuck to the smaller ships, and i don't own anything larger than a Asp, instead i own a ton of them all placed at strategical places all over civilized space.
and what i found out by doing this was that all the feeling of "grind" in the game disappeared, and its great fun to just go all "balls out" whit a eagle knowing that its no big deal if i loose it.

i also got roots in eve-online and used to the practice from there,
in eve you save your large ships for special occasions and don't bring them out whit out reason.
taking a battleship out for combat there whitout escorts is usually considered to be a suicide, and Capitals can't even move out by their own from a system whit out a helping hand.

its ofc not the same here, we don't really got any "special" occasions in Elite, at least not yet.
but maybe FD is planning something for the future.

Battleship without escorts is suicide in EVE? Where, in low sec?
Either empire or Alliance space in 0.0 is perfectly safe for farming with whatever you want, Battleship, Marauder, (Carrier for Alliance space) Dreadnaughts are useless for ISK grinding, of course and those indeed are pointless to take without escort / fleet.



And just because YOU have more fun in Elite focusing on spreading smaller ships all over the place, that doesn't make it the best or right way of playing for everybody. And FD never said that owning an Anaconda should be unprofitable.

The ships actually scale up with increased capability and profitability. Not as some silly sculpture you're supposed to just look at or take out on a Sunday for screenshots. No, they are meant for you to USE further your other Elite goals, not to become the final resting place for all funds you still receive.

Your line of argument amounts to "I'm flying all small ships, please make large ships cost prohibitive."



And there was some other guy who took an EVE example, equivalent to "EVE throwing him into the deep water and he "came out a better player"... statement overall and specifically in regards to high running costs. EVE's ships use no fuel and repairs are cheap. Just insurance if you die is a lousy deal. Not just because of the cost, but because you get just cash and are expected to spend hours and hours to fly around to buy back all those modules and guns you lost from all over the place.


The bottom line is this: Games are a waste of time. That's ok, as long as they are a pleasant, fun, exciting waste of time. If they become an annoying waste of time, almost anybody can quickly find someting better to waste time with.

Granted, there are those wishing to be nickled-and-dimed to death in a game, cause they cannot imagine anything else to be 'ok' and they lack the recognition that there's a lot of great games that just use voluntary money sinks with great success and nobody quit because they had "too much" money.

 

[n13L5]

It's the same people every time. "Elite is perfect and nothing needs to change" until they change something, then "Elite is perfect and nothing needs to change".

The white knighters...

For some people, everything from Apple to Elite becomes a religion.

If someone prefers higher or lower repair costs is all cool, but there's a very easy point to tell when its out of balance: When there's a bunch of ships that you can't earn any money with in combat, because costs are just higher than the payout.

We are encouraged to strive for these ships and encouraged to strive for triple ELITE ranks.

Maybe you can reach combat Elite rank in a Viper, and exploration elite rank in a hauler, but you can't get to trading Elite rank in a Cobra unless you get very old.
But if that was all we were supposed to fly, all the other ships wouldn't be in the game.

 

[Araviel]

hit a nerve did i? i was only trying to add food for the though, but you don't seem to have room for more.

 

[TruffleSnout]

I want Firefly and her broken compressor. I want the Millenium Falcon, bucket of bolts, hyperdrive malfunctioning. I want it to be a challenge to keep my ship flying. I don't want it to be a trivial thing.

Even though the current high repair costs are a bug, I too wouldn't mind a higher repair cost for exactly this reason. I want to look at my credit balance and make a decision: do I repair my power plant, or do I fly with insurance, because I can't afford both. That kind of decision will lead to a much better immersion for me. This ship is my ship, with all her quirks. And I'll feel glad to pull her out of a dangerous situation. I may use bounty hunting as a secondary income source, but with higher repair costs I'd be constantly faced with a decision: I used to take on Anacondas in my Vulture. Maybe I'll start running from them instead.

Also, in what galaxy is it fun to leave dock with an as-brand-spanking-new ship every single time you launch?

 

[Karakhian]

That's fair enough, and your point of view certainly has some good arguments. I'm just sick of people defending everything in this game with arguments like 'learn to fight better' and 'in real life it would cost more' kind of stuff. There were a lot of people (not you) who were defending these repair costs with unreasonable arguments and have all of a sudden gone very quiet now it's confirmed an error have gone silent.

It's the same people every time. "Elite is perfect and nothing needs to change" until they change something, then "Elite is perfect and nothing needs to change".

Fair enough, I looked back through the thread and saw what you meant and that you weren't actually speaking about me. My bad.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I'm basically at the situation where there is no point to taking my Clipper into combat. I only need one encounter with a high rated large enemy (or a wing of high rated enemies) to take down my shields and do some hull damage to remove pretty much all the profit from a hunting trip. I'm glad that this is a bug and I hope it will be fixed soon, until then looks like I'm parking the Clipper for the Courier again

 

[SebulbaTheHutt]

Even though the current high repair costs are a bug, I too wouldn't mind a higher repair cost for exactly this reason. I want to look at my credit balance and make a decision: do I repair my power plant, or do I fly with insurance, because I can't afford both. That kind of decision will lead to a much better immersion for me. This ship is my ship, with all her quirks. And I'll feel glad to pull her out of a dangerous situation. I may use bounty hunting as a secondary income source, but with higher repair costs I'd be constantly faced with a decision: I used to take on Anacondas in my Vulture. Maybe I'll start running from them instead.

Also, in what galaxy is it fun to leave dock with an as-brand-spanking-new ship every single time you launch?

Ok, i agree with you. You are pointing to one of the essential attractive features that is uniquely part of the Elite universe - and has been so since 1984. BUT that intellectual problem-solving that the game challenges in all of us doesnt make any sense if the rules are set so tight that meaningful solutions coming out of that process become unattainable. Takes all the fun out of the challenge and we end up in a grind.

There is another side to this though. FD will eventually get the message and sort this one out. So in the meanwhile i have been set the challenge of how best to survive in the meanwhile. It required some adjustment. Options:

1. Stop playing. Nah, thats not me. No challenge to overcome. Besides, i'd then have to go get a proper job.
2. Go with it as is and hope for the best. Yeah right. And end up starting over with a Sidey??
3. Go do something safer in the game and wait. I think this is what i'm doing, prob others too. That means: find a safe corner in the Galaxy and just do trading. Fly in and out of Sstations very carefully. Avoid combat wherever possible. When i cant avoid, kill them real quick and go lick my wounds in the nearest system. Maybe exploration is another option, but havnt done much of that.
4. What if FD decide not to change this? I'll go on ing at them till they do. I'll probably end up playing less often.

Any other suggestions?

 

[TruffleSnout]

Any other suggestions?

"Do what you were doing before, just making more conservative choices" is the option I'm going with.

When RES farming in my Vulture, I used to take on Dangerous Pythons with 2 small wingmen (eagles, sideys). Not anymore. I'll still take on a Competent Python that's by itself, though.

Also, repair costs now take on an economic aspect when purchasing a ship. I'd planned on getting my own Python when my credit balance got to about 70 million, so I could add a few upgrades. Now? I'll wait until I get at least 120 million before I buy a stock Python w/no upgrades.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

What we need is a clear message of what its supposed to be and a system that conforms to the ruleset.

 

[SebulbaTheHutt]

I'll still take on a Competent Python that's by itself, though.

Also, repair costs now take on an economic aspect when purchasing a ship. I'd planned on getting my own Python when my credit balance got to about 70 million, so I could add a few upgrades. Now? I'll wait until I get at least 120 million before I buy a stock Python w/no upgrades.

Careful. I'm a Competent Python. AND on my own. Actually i did a lot of combat in an Asp, and only bought the Python as a stepping stone to a type9. But i enjoyed the combat in the Python so much, i ditched the Asp and began to trade and upgrade the Python. Then they changed the repair rules. So its gotten much slower to do that. Thats part of the creative thing at the moment - how to kit out the Python to suit current conditions. I was using an internal compartment for cargo, but have changed that back to shielding, although it slows the trading more etc, etc

 

[Cryptex]

Yes, it is confirmed a bug. Yes it will be fixed. This ongoing discussion now seems to be devoted towards explaining why if repair costs are increased, which they should be, it can't simply be raised in a proportional way to ship size. As I've already stated: those of you who fly vultures and other low tier ships won't see a problem. Your repair costs are still cheaper then mission costs. Clipper and up, repair costs EXCEED income. Income in this game does not scale based on ship size, ESPECIALLY FOR COMBAT. Meaning no matter the size and cost of your ship, you will be making the same money in a python as a cobra. The only difference is that a Python can kill things faster and stay in combat longer. This is great except that even still, our repair costs still EXCEED our income. If we take even a scratch, HOURS of work goes to waste. It should not be a game mechanic that I have to play 10 times longer or even 100 times longer to not only buy the ship, but just to PILOT it for even one hour! That is simply how the effect of the current game mechanics are on proportional repairs. You would expect to make greater income in an Anaconda. You do. But it is simply IMPOSSIBLE even with a fully kitted Anaconda to kill fast enough and maintain any income without taking damage. These repair costs far exceed our maximum capacity to make money. Unless we play for literally hours on end and not take a single SCRATCH in that time, it is impossible. You tell me how a COMBAT ship is not supposed to take damage. Even the best pilots have their shields go down in combat. Shields should not be the Gods of this game. Even 10% hull damage can cost us literally 3-5 hours of game time. That is unfair gameplay. FULL damage on a low tier ship like a Vulture is LESS than what you would make from standard BB missions, let alone bounties. Repair costs for a python and an Anaconda without scaling, FAAARRR exceeds what we can make in terms of income from missions AND bounties combined. If you want us to pay more, we need to be able to make more money than you. We don't, so we shouldn't.

 

[Jedirogue]

Well it's still broken. Just tested out by interdicting one Hauler (diplomat in expansion system) at low speed (below 1c) and ended up with a repair bill for almost 45k and a further 25k for wear and tear. All told it cost me 70k to get 15 merits and 1500 credits. This repair cost has completely destroyed and combat role in Power Play. FD I know you are aware of this issue but this is something that needs addressed NOW, it just can't wait as it kills PP for many players. Either the repair costs go down again or the reward for combat earned merits needs to go up (by a factor of between 50 and 100 times).

Guess I'll be parking my FDL for a while and finding somewhere quiet to trade in my Conda until this is "fixed".

 

[CMDR Beltane]

You mean small missiles boat should not be able to sink a destroyer ?
It's all about cost/effectiveness. It's cause of this patrol boat exist : because it's not a good idea to use a nuclear aircraft carrier to chase smugglers.

You think everyone should have a nuclear aircraft carrier cause it is the most potent ship you can buy, I think thanks to maintenance cost people need to think about their cost in relation to want they want to do with their ship, what they can do and what they can't.
Even the most potent ship must have limitations, and as he is the most potent, the limitation is about what is required to maintain it.

Thats not what i meant. Ever played X3? If not, please do - and give me some feedback how succesfull you are in defeating an M6 Destroyer Class Vessel with your M4 Medium Fighter, or with your M6 fighting a M1 Battleship or even a M7. Yes, there are bombers that are like your mentioned missile boats, but a Viper or Cobra is far from beeing anything like that at the moment. And if not for various reasons, a Viper or Cobra would also simply be vanquished by a ship the Size of an Anaconda or even Python.

But no, thats not what i want for ED. But i also don't want to be the one who is punished for flying a big ship, without a very good bonus i get for that. So again, unless you want ED to move into a direction we both don't want, you might want to rethink that stance. Fair prices for Fuel, Repairs, W&T - sure thing, but not utopian ones just because it happens that you like flying big stuff. Especially as long as there is no boon for flying bigger ships (like beeing able to kill big game you can't combat in your small ship, so the big one gets better bounties to afford the expensive repairs).

Anyways, as FD already announced that this is not intended - take it or leave it. Even if we agree to disagree, at least i am perfectly fine that we won't miss diversity in this game. And that is more important to me than to care about if repair bills are "realistic".

 

[CiaphasHRO]

I was flying with my new Clipper(i love this ship...there are many ships like it but this ship is mine) last night. Made some Missions incl. Interdictions and when i was back at the station i made 600.000 Profit and had repair cost 250.000. Was shocked but it was okay (made profit). Then i made a desision to use the Clipper as my main ship for traveling and trading. Then i build an a-class viper with everything i need for bounty hunting and it was a real blast. I had a lot of fun in my little gunboat yesterday. I can understand the argument but every topic has so much anger. Its an mistake...it will be fixed. Do somethink new untill then and maybe you will find a new love for this game

 

[TruffleSnout]

Careful. I'm a Competent Python. AND on my own.

Apologies. I should have been clearer that I was speaking from a PvE perspective. Me being a Solo-only player, and all.

 

[bitstorm]

Every fix introduces a new bug. Always some bug that prevents you playing how you want, if it's not inordinate ship repair costs just to play it's broken missions preventing you from doing what you're tryin to do. =(

I guess just don't repair my Anaconda till this is fixed.