World Scale?

I found this setting in Elite Dangerous /Products /elite-dangerous-64 /GraphicsConfiguration.xmll:

<scale>0.650000</scale>

Would this have anything to do with world scale?

Frontier Scale.PNG
 
No, that does nothing. If you use steamVR you can use the instructions found in my post on this thread:

 
No, that does nothing. If you use steamVR you can use the instructions found in my post on this thread:

It does, alongside the offset setting.

These are the numbers I'm using:
Offset.PNG

Don't ask me why these numbers; I've been testing either side of the decimal points and this is where I found true scale for me (my IPD is 67 on WMR). I also set the SteamVR IPD offset back to 0.

The scale is mind blowing:
Stations are immense; no longer a tunnel, but a vast mileage of industrial activity. All the landing pads look the right size at any distance, not just when slowing down to land.
Ships look the right size (as described in YouTube size comparison videos), not just when close up. I was coming into land at a planet side city, about 2 Km up, and an Orca was landing on it's pad. It looked massive -even from up there. The buildings towered.
Planets look vast, even at Super Cruise speeds.
Distance between asteroids is perceivable and judging distances to ships at res sites looks right.

I could go on. Try it out.

I've already played around with the IPD offset in the SteamVR Folder, as you can see from my replies on the thread that you linked, and was quite happy with the results , but for me the one's above are better. Also, now SteamVR doesn't mess up the scale on other games as the offset is default.
 
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It does, alongside the offset setting.

These are the numbers I'm using:
View attachment 159452
Don't ask me why these numbers; I've been testing either side of the decimal points and this is where I found true scale for me (my IPD is 67 on WMR). I also set the SteamVR IPD offset back to 0.

The scale is mind blowing:
Stations are immense; no longer a tunnel, but a vast mileage of industrial activity. All the landing pads look the right size at any distance, not just when slowing down to land.
Ships look the right size (as described in YouTube size comparison videos), not just when close up. I was coming into land at a planet side city, about 2 Km up, and an Orca was landing on it's pad. It looked massive -even from up there. The buildings towered.
Planets look vast, even at Super Cruise speeds.
Distance between asteroids is perceivable and judging distances to ships at res sites looks right.

I could go on. Try it out.

I've already played around with the IPD offset in the SteamVR Folder, as you can see from my replies on the thread that you linked, and was quite happy with the results , but for me the one's above are better. Also, now SteamVR doesn't mess up the scale on other games as the offset is default.

would that do anything on a monitor? i always thought that the planets look so freakin' tiny in this game. even the ones that are 2 times bigger than Earth look small.
 
The file /Products /elite-dangerous-64 /GraphicsConfiguration.xml does not exist in my installation (steam currently), can this be entered into the GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml file?..

I am using a Samsung Odyssey and have tried all the steamvr settings to adjust ipdoffest etc and nothing has changed with regards to scale.. Might be due to the adjustable ipd on the headset overriding?

Would love to hear if anyone using an Odyssey (or Reverb) has been able to adjust scale perception.
 
The file /Products /elite-dangerous-64 /GraphicsConfiguration.xml does not exist in my installation (steam currently), can this be entered into the GraphicsConfigurationOverride.xml file?..

I don't know.

Look under: Program Files (86) / Steam / steamapps / common / Elite Dangerous / Products / elite-dangerous-64 >GraphicsConfiguration.xml
 
Might be due to the adjustable ipd on the headset overriding?
That's possible, I suppose. As I understand it, the physical adjustment on the Samsung also changes the IPD numbers in WMR simultaneously. Is that right? I'm not sure how this overrides the Steam setting, as I know little about this stuff, -I'm tinkering.
 
would that do anything on a monitor? i always thought that the planets look so freakin' tiny in this game. even the ones that are 2 times bigger than Earth look small.
Think about the Moon. It looks tiny from Earth, but it's enormous once you get there. Next imagine going there in seconds. You would have very much the same visual experience as in ED. Human perception and our senses have developed over millions of years making them suitable for getting a grasp on the stuff and thingies in our everyday life. We have an intuitive understanding of numbers up to 10-100, but not a million, and most people wouldn't be able to estimate the size of a mile, far less a light second.

I used to do a lot of 3D animation, and amongst us animators, there were different goals to achieve to impress the colleagues. One was to make a "planetary landing" from space to the surface in one long camera movement. I never succeeded doing "Earth", but I did do "Mars" in 1:1 scale. That taught me about the sizes and the way the movement actually would look, unless the trip would take forever. We just don't cope very well with things the brain isn't used to.

One classic way to make things look bigger is to slow motion down, and the level of tiny details can also create the illusion. Maybe an 8K VR HMD sometimes in the future when GPUs can handle it will make it even better, but for now, what I see in ED is bloody impressing (y)
 
I don't know.

Look under: Program Files (86) / Steam / steamapps / common / Elite Dangerous / Products / elite-dangerous-64 >GraphicsConfiguration.xml
The file is not there on my installation (clean install about 6 months ago from steam as opposed to the standalone), however i do have a backup of the file from about 18 months ago saved... Is this file still used?... not sure. I've placed back into the folder and am having some tweaks to see if it changes anything or is being read by the latest install.

With the Odyssey, moving the hardware dial on the HMD changes the IPD in the WMR software... it is greyed for adjustment in the windows settings.

Scale isn't too far out, but would be nice to see the difference.
 
Think about the Moon. It looks tiny from Earth, but it's enormous once you get there. Next imagine going there in seconds. You would have very much the same visual experience as in ED. Human perception and our senses have developed over millions of years making them suitable for getting a grasp on the stuff and thingies in our everyday life. We have an intuitive understanding of numbers up to 10-100, but not a million, and most people wouldn't be able to estimate the size of a mile, far less a light second.

I used to do a lot of 3D animation, and amongst us animators, there were different goals to achieve to impress the colleagues. One was to make a "planetary landing" from space to the surface in one long camera movement. I never succeeded doing "Earth", but I did do "Mars" in 1:1 scale. That taught me about the sizes and the way the movement actually would look, unless the trip would take forever. We just don't cope very well with things the brain isn't used to.

One classic way to make things look bigger is to slow motion down, and the level of tiny details can also create the illusion. Maybe an 8K VR HMD sometimes in the future when GPUs can handle it will make it even better, but for now, what I see in ED is bloody impressing (y)

I don't know, i have tried No man's Sky and Star Citizen and in both game when i approached the body, they looked insane big compared to ED. First i thought it's the 60° FOV, but even if i raise it to 85°, it doesn't change how small the planets look. Honestly i would set it to 90 or even more probably, cause that's how much i would expect to see from the cockpit sitting in that position. Once you set it to 90ish, you realize how laughable is that 60, like looking at the world trough a tube.

EDIT: made a rough comparison screenshot on what you see with 85° FoV and how much of that is the 60° FoV (that's the max you can set in game i believe)

i can never again go back to 60°, even if i see distortion at the edge of the screen.

dShXqoc.png
 
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Think about the Moon. It looks tiny from Earth, but it's enormous once you get there.

I think most people have noticed that things don't take up as much visual space the farther away they are. No need for a Father ted 'Far Away' YouTube video. The moon doesn't look like the size of a pea though, does it?

One classic way to make things look bigger is to slow motion down
Yes, like when blowing up models and super imposing them (Back projection King Kong, for instance) onto a real size scene. It has to be slowed down, because our brains already perceive height from the rate at which something falls.

I'm not knocking everything you're saying, WeComeInPeace, but there is a noticeable change in perceivable scale when adjusting some settings. It's not just; if you fly past a large object at extraordinary speed, it will look smaller because the brain has certain presumptions. Have you seen a nature documentary, when a helicopter/plane spots a Blue Whale? There are no reference points (unless you know the size of the waves), yet you can see: 'That is huge'. And that's in 2D.

When I was a kid, in the 80's, HMS Hermes was in the Solent. [From the beach], you must know that after a distance the eyes don't need to converge to focus (I assume from your comments about animation, that you must have an elementary idea about depth of field and depth of focus, from what you're saying), and from there, [with the Isle Of Wight ahead and no focusing with my adolescent eyes whatsoever; I knew it was huge]. My Dad sailed me out there on a Leader dingy to prove it. It was massive, and scary in a 14 foot boat, but as big as it looked from the coast.
 
The file is not there on my installation (clean install about 6 months ago from steam as opposed to the standalone), however i do have a backup of the file from about 18 months ago saved... Is this file still used?... not sure. I've placed back into the folder and am having some tweaks to see if it changes anything or is being read by the latest install.

With the Odyssey, moving the hardware dial on the HMD changes the IPD in the WMR software... it is greyed for adjustment in the windows settings.

Scale isn't too far out, but would be nice to see the difference.
Are you allowing 'Hidden Files'? Also, try looking in User/ appdata / local / Frontier Developments (or) Frontier_Developments (on my non steam installation it was here), and see if you can find Products / elite-dangerous-64
 
I think most people have noticed that things don't take up as much visual space the farther away they are. No need for a Father ted 'Far Away' YouTube video. The moon doesn't look like the size of a pea though, does it?


Yes, like when blowing up models and super imposing them (Back projection King Kong, for instance) onto a real size scene. It has to be slowed down, because our brains already perceive height from the rate at which something falls.

I'm not knocking everything you're saying, WeComeInPeace, but there is a noticeable change in perceivable scale when adjusting some settings. It's not just; if you fly past a large object at extraordinary speed, it will look smaller because the brain has certain presumptions. Have you seen a nature documentary, when a helicopter/plane spots a Blue Whale? There are no reference points (unless you know the size of the waves), yet you can see: 'That is huge'. And that's in 2D.

When I was a kid, in the 80's, HMS Hermes was in the Solent. [From the beach], you must know that after a distance the eyes don't need to converge to focus (I assume from your comments about animation, that you must have an elementary idea about depth of field and depth of focus, from what you're saying), and from there, [with the Isle Of Wight ahead and no focusing with my adolescent eyes whatsoever; I knew it was huge]. My Dad sailed me out there on a Leader dingy to prove it. It was massive, and scary in a 14 foot boat, but as big as it looked from the coast.
I've been simulating reality in 3D for more than 25 years, so I do know about DOF and POV. I have also studied human perception, consciousness and senses. I've even tried to figure out what aesthetics is, from a "scientific" POV, now that everybody used the word so often.

For me, the big difference came with VR. That gives you a much better sense of size and scale. Before ED I used to simrace for many years, and finding the proper braking point at the end of the straight became a lot easier when I switched to VR with the added depth perception.

I also played NMS, but I haven't tried it in VR. However, I remember it as being a lot less realistic than ED. I think you're spot on with the brain making assumptions. The scale of the galaxy in ED is pretty close to correct. If you flew to the Moon, you would have some sort of expectation about what you would perceive along the way, and we have no idea what it would actually look like IRL, especially at the speeds ED is capable of. Try and calculate the G forces we're exposed to in the game.

Normally we also perceive something like atmosphere between ourselves and the object we're trying to estimate the size of. That however, is not useable in space. Have you ever tried to look at the Andromeda Galaxy using binoculars? You get a sense that it's far away, but not 2.5 million ly, and you get no idea how big it is. That one is not an illusion or simulation. Our brain works in mysterious ways and there are countless examples of optical illusions concerning scale, and those illusions btw. are often used to simulate scale.

Source: https://youtu.be/hCV2Ba5wrcs


Another example is this image. You have no idea of scale until you recognize the animal in there:

1579460520390.png


I didn't mean to sound like a dad, but according to the Shannon Theorem and linguistics, nomenclature can be seen as pure noise, if the receiving part of the communication doesn't understand the meaning of the words being send, and because any communication uses some sort of channel with a limited bandwidth, even speech or writing, any noise will limit the amount of information being transferred over time. Since that dawned on me, I have tried to turn down the nomenclature I use, even though the result sometimes is that people find me patronizing.

I started my 3D career on a monochrome PC XT, using simple math like the Circle Equation to calculate the vertices of 3D wireframe models rotated and moved in all three directions, and I also taught myself to simulate hidden lines. That was in the early 1980s. After that I was working as a VFX supervisor for many years, so I allow myself to consider me somewhat of an "expert" on the subject.

One thing that still puzzles me slightly though, is that in VR, you get the sense of DOF, even though your eyes are focusing on the exact same set of screens through the exact same set of lenses. It seems that some of the blur I would normally consider a result of the optics of the eye, is actually created by the brain and not in the eye. So much for the "expert" ;) It kind of resembles the captured images from brain scans showing how the brain see stuff, which resembles the way AI perceives faces, letters and numbers. That isn't that mysterious, since a neural network was designed to mimic a human brain, the "mysterious" part being that those images look far from what we feel we see, when looking at something.
 
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I dunno then. Makes a massive difference to me. It's Night and Day. It's a bit like the post you made a while back, about the 2.0 thing, and a lot of people objected before trying it. Lot's of people criticised you, before trying it.

PS; more of a Wado Ryu man, personally :D
 
It does, alongside the offset setting.

These are the numbers I'm using:
View attachment 159452
Don't ask me why these numbers; I've been testing either side of the decimal points and this is where I found true scale for me (my IPD is 67 on WMR). I also set the SteamVR IPD offset back to 0.

The scale is mind blowing:
Stations are immense; no longer a tunnel, but a vast mileage of industrial activity. All the landing pads look the right size at any distance, not just when slowing down to land.
Ships look the right size (as described in YouTube size comparison videos), not just when close up. I was coming into land at a planet side city, about 2 Km up, and an Orca was landing on it's pad. It looked massive -even from up there. The buildings towered.
Planets look vast, even at Super Cruise speeds.
Distance between asteroids is perceivable and judging distances to ships at res sites looks right.

I could go on. Try it out.

I've already played around with the IPD offset in the SteamVR Folder, as you can see from my replies on the thread that you linked, and was quite happy with the results , but for me the one's above are better. Also, now SteamVR doesn't mess up the scale on other games as the offset is default.

Why would changing a setting under ambient occlusion branch of the config file effect world scale? Particuarly the SSAO off configuration. If what you are saying worked, then surely by changing SSAO from 'Off' to 'High' in game would cause a massive reduction in world scale as the high profile has scale and offset both set at -5.0....

Any way, I tested your settings and there were no noticable changes to world scale at all just as Kyokushin mentioned.
 
Why would changing a setting under ambient occlusion branch of the config file effect world scale? Particuarly the SSAO off configuration. If what you are saying worked, then surely by changing SSAO from 'Off' to 'High' in game would cause a massive reduction in world scale as the high profile has scale and offset both set at -5.0....

Any way, I tested your settings and there were no noticable changes to world scale at all just as Kyokushin mentioned.
I don't know. But the results are obvious. Try it yourself, if you don't believe me.
 
My point is that at least VR in ED is properly calibrated to simulate reality, and that even though we think it's difficult to get a sense of scale, that might very well be because we don't know how it would look IRL. You might be able to trick the brain changing the FOV, but that will also introduce all sorts of other issues, like parallax going down the drain.

no it isn't. As you go passed a planet or star you are well aware of it being a 3d shape. It has stereoscopic depth. In reality we would see something large and distant as flat.
Look at distant clouds, they don't appear as 3d they appear as a flat plane, you only realise their size and distance when you take in to consideration other things in your view like trees , hills and buildings.

You focus on planets as if they are 10ft balls at 5ft away.
 
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