Would You Expect Motion Controllers in a 'Legs' DLC?

[VR Golgot]

Various discussions recently have emphasised that Elite really is a '2D first' game, and I agree with the premise. Which does throw a big shadow over how much love they'll lavish on VR if/when a Legs DLC comes.

With the 'leak' being 4 for 4 on its predictions it seems worth assuming that they're working on such things now though. So I've stuck a Suggestion thread up requesting a basic level of Motion Controller support. (And then sliding off into dreamscape requests )

Here's the text:

Aloha,

If the 2020 DLC is Legs then I'd definitely love motion controllers for locomotion, the FPS aspect, and that general added sense of presence. I'm hoping that's technically achievable even with the likely '2D first' weighting to the dev.

If there is motion controller support, I'd love for 'Onward style' motion to be included in the locomotion options. (IE 'Controller relative' motion. Here's an example of the implementation in Fallout 4 for anyone unaware of this technique)

Given the success of multiplayer VR launches like Onward, co-op VR ports like Payday 2, and offline ports like Fallout 4 etc using that scheme it feels like there's a desirable industry norm developing there (for first person ports + new launches etc). Its use in newer indie ports & launches (The Spy Who Shrunk me was one I noticed today) doubles down on that impression.

Obviously the whole balancing issue for K/M vs controller vs VR schemes is untested water. As a VR user though I'll just note I'd happily take a potential FPS disadvantage against K/M players if it meant I had all of the above benefits of motion controller play


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There's then a sliding scale of VR stuff that I'd love to see, but which seem like a lot more dev, and so less likely. (Unless a domino rally of financial incentives occur, IE: the new consoles featuring VR variants, & you guys pitching to be a launch title )...

Spoiler

• Virtual joysticks & panels as an alternative to HOTAS, allowing easier transition, & potentially a cool 'virtual cockpit' interface.
• A degree of hand interaction with world items
• Lone Echo style EVA locomotion via hand-holds & jets.
• That full 'mersive, inverse kinematics arm recreation business.

It all slides off into dreamland no doubt. But for me, a Legs DLC which didn't let me blind-fire around corners, even with floaty hands, would be a disappointment for sure. (IE one that passed on the ultra-immersive + gamey aspects that motion controllers bring, opting for controller or K/M fumbling instead).

Spoiler

Getting half of the above would be rapture though

Thread is here if anyone wants to add suggestions that might catch dev eyes there.

 

[DaggerSnake]

If the game sticks to zero g environment, then Lone Echo has already set the standard for how to navigate that space.

For a normal FPS in VR, I think that Skyrim VR is the best I’ve played. I’ve pretty much tried everything. It has a hybrid of pointing and stick analog movement which will work for both normal and touch controls.

KB and Mouse in VR for a FPS game may be a challenge unless you really have muscle memory devoloped for it. I’d probably go back to pancake screen mode for that one.

 

[VR Golgot]

If the game sticks to zero g environment, then Lone Echo has already set the standard for how to navigate that space.

For a normal FPS in VR, I think that Skyrim VR is the best I’ve played. I’ve pretty much tried everything. It has a hybrid of pointing and stick analog movement which will work for both normal and touch controls.

KB and Mouse in VR for a FPS game may be a challenge unless you really have muscle memory devoloped for it. I’d probably go back to pancake screen mode for that one.

Yep Lone Echo nails it, but the more I think on it, the more I'd be surprised if FDev could lavish anything like that level of dev. (Given they have to create systems that have parity with a '2D' version etc, with that version likely having primacy).

The FPS aspect should hopefully be more do-able. (Absolutely agree on Skyrim's version of controller-relative motion).

My biggest fear is an implementation that doesn't use motion controllers at all. (Fingers crossed that they're aiming for a VR-ready variants of the 2020 consoles, that'd add budget for some extra dev cycles )

 

[Arioch]

I wouldn’t imagine Lone Echo zero-G pushing-off movement would be implemented as that wouldn’t be compatible with the 2D version of the game - I suspect it’ll be remlok suit micro-thrusters with a bit of drift. If the 2D game had a “press to grab” mechanic, then I could see it happening, but I don’t hold out much hope for that.
I’d expect to see something more like Subnautica’s VR implementation.

Having just installed the first-person body mod with inverse kinematics in Skyrim VR the other day, that’s something I’d love to an unhealthy level in Elite Dangerous. If one person can manage that...

 

[BinakAlgo]

I would love at least a Fallout/Skyrim VR system, I haven't played Lone Echo, I would need to see that but from what I can see from other games or showcases, a correct zero-g seems difficult to achieve and I doubt the devs will consider unnecessary all that. So, I guess that for traveling in ships they are going to assume a "magnetic boots approach" or something similar to simulate gravity and run like any other FPS game.

VR is still on thin ice so I guess most devs are still unsure if invest resources on it or not.

 

[[VR] Scifikomori]

If the game sticks to zero g environment, then Lone Echo has already set the standard for how to navigate that space.

Pretty much. Except one thing that annoyed me a bit, was that you could not turn yourself by push / pull with separate hands simultaneously (that might sound strange? You pull with one hand (arm), and push with another, so you turn yourself.. or something like that). You have to turn yourself via the thumb pads (or joysticks I guess, if using Oculus. I used ReVive / Vive, and it's not really optimal on that). But movements otherwise, yes, awesome! It also feels as if you are basically weightless. Well I guess not really, but I think that's as close as possible in a 1g roomscale IRL (for lack of a zero-g roomscale environment, or one of those NASA astronaut training pools )

But yeah, this is dreamland (motion controllers with IK etc.)... for now(?). Rather annoying as it's technically possible. Well, possible-ish, as we don't have full body tracking for legs/elbows etc (yet?), so something has to be guesstimated for those parts ofc.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Pretty much. Except one thing that annoyed me a bit, was that you could not turn yourself by push / pull with separate hands simultaneously (that might sound strange? You pull with one hand (arm), and push with another, so you turn yourself.. or something like that). You have to turn yourself via the thumb pads (or joysticks I guess, if using Oculus. I used ReVive / Vive, and it's not really optimal on that). But movements otherwise, yes, awesome! It also feels as if you are basically weightless. Well I guess not really, but I think that's as close as possible in a 1g roomscale IRL (for lack of a zero-g roomscale environment, or one of those NASA astronaut training pools )

But yeah, this is dreamland (motion controllers with IK etc.)... for now(?). Rather annoying as it's technically possible. Well, possible-ish, as we don't have full body tracking for legs/elbows etc (yet?), so something has to be guesstimated for those parts ofc.

I see what you mean, but with a third sensor, you just turn yourself with yourself. I think with the new inside out tracking its going to be awesome. Can’t wait for Lone Echo 2!

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Expectations lead to disappointment. I hope for a decent implementation though and with Elites status in the VR community in general, this might even be a good decision from a financial and publicity standpoint.

Controls like in Lone Echo would be nothing but awesome to be honest.

The only thing i really fear, are fixed guns in the view, arms that are not reacting to the position of the touch controllers and the lack of a virtual body. This is so much headache inducing and immersion-breaking, that i stopped playing Subnautica after minutes and never returned to it. Most disappointing VR buy ever for me. I also tried to play a modded version of Alien Isolation, which suffered from the same problem.

Skyrim VR on the other hand, implemented shooter like motion quite well, without getting far away from the original.

Honestly, i would pay a good amount of cash extra for a decent VR implementation with touch controllers and manual zero-G navigation - even as a lifetime expansion pass holder - or buy a good amount of store gimmicks to support the proper development of the game.

 

[VR Golgot]

or buy a good amount of store gimmicks to support the proper development of the game.

Maybe that's the answer, VR-only cosmetics

(Fancy hands, superior elbows etc )