Would You Rather - Consumer VR Gen II

[Raptoyd]

Been at this now for 2 years since buying my DK2 and have to say it is impressive how far they have come. Will always want more but all in all I am happy with the experience. Wish Oculus and FD would be a little more responsive to users but they have to be very careful with what they say. I am enjoying playing and that is what really matters in the end I hope you guys are also. Happy Holidays to all.

Edit: You guys on here are terrific with your insights and support really a great forum!

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

I don't think 4K per eye is necessary for VR Gen2 HMD's. Eye tracking will enable a huge boost to effective performance - it is the core requirement behind foveated rendering.

Foveated rendering is still in its early days but it offers great reductions in the GPU load.
Gen 2 will use this in two ways -
a) Increase the visible detail in the central high-detail rendered zone to absolute maximum - high quality shaders, max material quality, bump maps, multiple dynamic lighting passes etc. Up to the limit of the display panel.
b) Reduce GPU load in the peripheral vision - less detail needed as you can't perceive it. Overall load is reduced, making more lower-end GPU's capable.

Foveated rendering isn't a magic gun - its going to take GPU manufacturers, the engine developers and content creators to work together to deliver a workable solution, and a fast eye-tracking headset too.

Gen2 will have a strong emphasis on reducing the performance level for entry to VR content - keeping todays mainstream cards usable in VR will be a big step. This means more PCs will be 'able' to support VR (in the same way ATW/ASW/reprojection modes have enabled 780GTX and 960-class GPU's to render decent VR.
A higher number of 'VR-ready PCs' means more buyers for HMD's, and that means a bigger target market for VR content developers.

You can't do foveated rendering on the current Rift or Vive - and that currently installed user base still needs to fund the current and future content creation - without having the benefit of foveated rendering or hi-res panels.
So while the benefits are great, the market inertia is already present - so I think Gen2 with better res and foveated rendering is still some time away... perhaps 2018?

Personally I see a Gen 1.5 coming, with no eye tracking but better panel resolution for enthusiasts with higher end GPU's.

 

[Zeeman]

I think we are going to need a generation or two of GPU improvement before we can really improve VR too much. As it stands, it seems to take a fair chunk of grunt to properly run a VR headset at a proper 90 FPS (not with frame interpolation).

Z...

 

[CapuchinSeven]

I love my Vive and I'm looking forward to better resolution but at the end of the day, we're going to need better GFX cards first.

*EDIT Zeeman beat me to it

 

[megadonkeyx]

FOV + wireless would be best for me.

however, since getting PSVR i find the vives much more evident screen door to be so very distracting in elite but not so much in other games ie doom3 i dont notice it.

was playing X-Wing VR mission on PSVR last night and it was so very clear compared to the mess that elite is on the vive.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Resolution over field of view for me personally.

Also I see a lot of comments along the lines of "we need better GPUs to drive Gen 2" and whilst more power is always a good thing, I'm not convinced. Or perhaps more accurately I'm suspicious about the drive and "online consensus" for what are very expensive GPUs being more about nVidia's share price than anything technical.

If I can run my Rift on VR High in ED on what I think is only one of my two 780GTXs (liquid cooled admittedly) then a 1080GTX should be able to drive 4K (2 x 2K if I understand then next jump in resolution) with ease or the performance gains in the last 2 generations of GPUs (9x and 10x) can't be as great as nVidia are making it out to be.

I also struggle to understand why interpolated rendering on the HMD is somehow a second class experience if it works with no other effect than watching the FPS fall below 90.

 

[dogbite]

Given only two choices, would you rather Consumer VR Gen II have 2k resolution or a 150 degree wide FOV?

Foveated rendering is at the front door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4gidzlhr8
I guess this could be considered somewhat next gen. It needs to be coded for, so it will take time for software to appear. Fove is claiming 2x to 3x saving in processing, even in today's DK. Stands to reason PD and or, FOV could be increased when a they hit retail. This is what I hope for in Gen II.

 

[Henri]

The color banding is a result of ASW on a below spec machine. Upgrade to the correct hardware and the issue is gone.

 

[vic]

The color banding is a result of ASW on a below spec machine. Upgrade to the correct hardware and the issue is gone.

Not true for me! Color banding there before ASW and still there today on my DK2 and the rift I tried! CTRL-num1-4 makes no difference. This has been stated numerous times by others with rift too. But if you have the gamma turned up or don't go to dark regions of space and not look at nebulas, halo's, dust clouds, mist, etc (which are the best part of exploring), then you won't see the problem.

 

[shadragon]

The 1060 would only represent a mid life upgrade for my current rig, which I'm only planning on running as a 1080p monitor machine.

Forgive me if I wasn't clear.

I'm fairly comfortable with what I can save. It's just a question of how I use my funds. The thought of second-gen VR intrigues me, and I'm now thinking, would I be better off waiting for that, or just diving into first-gen. That I yet need to decide.

If all you want to do is drive a 1080 monitor at 60Hz then the 960 will do you for years. A bigger card is needed for 4K or VR. If you are not getting either then you are good to go. As games get more complex and use higher density graphics textures you may see a slowdown. A good mid-range card over what you have now would be a 980Ti which should last for many years.

I can't tell you how much of a game changer VR is. 1st gen or 2nd gen, it will knock your socks off. If you want to improve your game dramatically (and can afford it, of course) then invest in a 1080 and a 1st gen HMD.

You can always wait for the better tech down the road, but there will ALWAYS be better tech down the road. Pull the trigger and live now.

 

[Zeeman]

Resolution over field of view for me personally.

Also I see a lot of comments along the lines of "we need better GPUs to drive Gen 2" and whilst more power is always a good thing, I'm not convinced. Or perhaps more accurately I'm suspicious about the drive and "online consensus" for what are very expensive GPUs being more about nVidia's share price than anything technical.

If I can run my Rift on VR High in ED on what I think is only one of my two 780GTXs (liquid cooled admittedly) then a 1080GTX should be able to drive 4K (2 x 2K if I understand then next jump in resolution) with ease or the performance gains in the last 2 generations of GPUs (9x and 10x) can't be as great as nVidia are making it out to be.

I also struggle to understand why interpolated rendering on the HMD is somehow a second class experience if it works with no other effect than watching the FPS fall below 90.

Interpolation is second class because it is a made up frame. Now, don't get me wrong, it isn't terrible or anything, and as quite possibly the best use of this tech I have ever seen (I'm in the Audio/video industry).

One issue is that it can smooth out, or fail to react to certain sudden actions, this causing weird looking animations. Any time there is the option of a real frame, or a made up frame, I'd take a real frame every time.

Having said that, good implementation will help, and there is always the quality of the software side of things to consider.

ED is probably not going to stress frame interpolation too much, though a game with a lot of things happening at the same time may be a different story. I've seen the picture of many a high end frame interpolation enabled TV fall apart during a high speed "helicopter" flyover of a scene, particularly a beach or ocean scene with lots of waves and splashes, it looks like an absolute mess. As I said, not so much of an issue for ED though, for now anyway.

ED (and VR in general) probably has a lot of room for optimisation, too...

Z...

 

[dogbite]

The color banding is a result of ASW on a below spec machine. Upgrade to the correct hardware and the issue is gone.

Wrong thread.

 

[Dozer.k.a.o.]

Alredy thinking in next generation? in two / three years, very probably, now no way.

CV1 with oversampling looks really well, so there is some margin that still needs to be covered for the actual and future hardware before thinking in next RV generation.

 

[CapuchinSeven]

I can't tell you how much of a game changer VR is. 1st gen or 2nd gen, it will knock your socks off. If you want to improve your game dramatically (and can afford it, of course) then invest in a 1080 and a 1st gen HMD.

Big this, it's said a lot but you can't put into words just how good that 3D effect is in VR.

Don't look down in a hanger with a VR headset if you don't like heights and if you're not comfortable with your tiny tiny tiny size in comparison to the rest of the universe don't look behind you in the system or galaxy map. First time I did that I made a small "eep".

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Big this, it's said a lot but you can't put into words just how good that 3D effect is in VR.

Don't look down in a hanger with a VR headset if you don't like heights and if you're not comfortable with your tiny tiny tiny size in comparison to the rest of the universe don't look behind you in the system or galaxy map. First time I did that I made a small "eep".

I've never thought to do this in the galaxy/system map - what's there? a huge 3D head of David Braben?

 

[Lupin]

VR next gen as many things to overcome:
1. Size/weight of unit.
2. Res
3. Computer/GPU needed to run it.
4. Software support.

At the moment we are in the stone age with VR, more fun in the future for sure. Soon(tm) we get to the problem touched on in Red Dwarf "Better than life".

 

[evilscoop]

new volta gpu's from nvidia next year will help a lot....

size and weight and resolution are main issues atm

 

[dogbite]

We should see all of those in next gen, except number 4. Good support is hard to find, these days.

 

[vic]

VR next gen as many things to overcome:
1. Size/weight of unit.
2. Res
3. Computer/GPU needed to run it.
4. Software support.

At the moment we are in the stone age with VR, more fun in the future for sure. Soon(tm) we get to the problem touched on in Red Dwarf "Better than life".

You forgot about wider more real-life peripheral vision (FOV)

 

[Darkfyre99]

I've never thought to do this in the galaxy/system map - what's there? a huge 3D head of David Braben?

Just a LOT more of the galaxy map. You're standing slightly off center in the map, so what you see before is a small part of the map.

I'm a bit disappointed that the SCALE of the galaxy map is so huge. I've walked through the galaxy map in room scale, and at what I'd consuder a useful zoom, I doubt my VR space is a light year across.

edit: sorry for any typos. Forgot iPad at home today