Hardware & Technical Yaw Input Questions

[NascentChemist]

Hey all,

What are you using for yaw control? I've only ever used HOTAS with a twist axis on the joystick, the T.Flight (retired) and T.16000M. The twist axis on my T.16000M is unreliable/possessed-by-Lucifer. I tried shifting my bindings around to compensate, but I just couldn't do it. Of course, I'll have to re-learn muscle memory if I make any significant change, but I don't think that a twistless T.16000M has enough inputs.

Should I pick up a set of pedals? Are they the main competitor for yaw input? If so, any recommendations on a good set of pedals? I'm pretty leery of TM products at the moment.

Of course, part of me wants to wait for the Virpil Constellation grip to be released. That seems like a great way to improve my joystick quality astronomically while keeping my bindings about the same.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Zeeman]

If you don't need toe brakes, I'd get a set of VKB T-rudder MKIII or MKIV's. They have an up/down motion, and are perfect for office chair/desk type set ups. They are super super accurate, and built very, very well. Pricing is not to different from a good set of CH or similar (about $180US if you can still find a set of MKIII's, about $240 for the MKIV)).

Once you've had pedals, you'll wonder how you managed without. The learning curve isn't very long, and your wrists will thank you in the long term.

Z...

 

[NascentChemist]

Those pedals do look very nice. My only sticking point is that I'd be choosing sides between VKB and Virpil pretty soon.

Between the Constellation grip and that WarBRD base, Virpil has a lot of good stuff coming our way.

 

[StiTch]

I've had a god damn ugly naked wrestling fight with yaw ever since I took my first baby steps on an x52 HOTAS. Yaw is a git, and the only control to suffer 100% on a KBAM reliance - I find having a yaw axis more fundamentally important than lateral/vertical thrust axes (I use axes as opposed to full on/off inputs only).

The only viable solution I've found so far is a high-end set of pedals. I upgraded from the thrustmaster cheapos to MFG crosswinds, and practically within twenty minutes I have devastating yaw control.

Unless you can find a keypad with some helpful axis controls, or a mouse that allows for an additional axis, pedals are pretty much your only option. For a "budget" I'd probably recommend the CH Pro ones.

 

[BurnyBurns]

Those pedals do look very nice. My only sticking point is that I'd be choosing sides between VKB and Virpil pretty soon.

Between the Constellation grip and that WarBRD base, Virpil has a lot of good stuff coming our way.

What's the point of the Constellation Grip, if you can have the modern combat variant, other than maybe price saving? Personally, I have a hard time understanding why one might want to go for a lesser grip (decidedly less inputs), unless the space grips offer some advantage that has so far escaped me. But even when price is the deciding factor, looking at Virpil/VKB bases you're in so deep, that I see little point in "cheaping out" on the grip.

The only viable solution I've found so far is a high-end set of pedals. I upgraded from the thrustmaster cheapos to MFG crosswinds, and practically within twenty minutes I have devastating yaw control.

+1 for the MFG crossinds. Absolutely brilliant, if expensive, set of pedals.

Should I pick up a set of pedals? Are they the main competitor for yaw input? If so, any recommendations on a good set of pedals? I'm pretty leery of TM products at the moment.

I'm having a bit of a deja vue here, OP. The first suggestion is the MFG Crosswinds. All the rudder pedals you most likely will ever need. But there are two others in a similar range you might want to consider, if it must be metal at all cost. Quoting myself from the pedals thread:

In that price range, also take into account the Slaw Device and potentially the Baur pedals.

To elaborate: Both Baur (BRD) and Slaw make high end sets of rudder pedals. Unlike the MFG Crosswinds, they're all metal constructions:

Slaw device pedal review (FB contact)
Baur pedals... unboxing Russian forum for contact

You probably can't go wrong with either of those sets. I'm personally using the MFG Crosswinds, as they were the most easily available in terms of ordering and there was most info on them available. Ordering both the Slaw device and Baur pedals seems to be quite "ghetto" in terms of the process. "Ghetto", because they don't provide web shops that deserve the name. Less socially awkward characters would call it social interaction - you'll have to contact them. Slaw through the FB page or probably via email (see FB page) and Baur apparently by means of the russion forums I linked.

All three sets ought to be fixed to something however - even if its just a wooden board that doesn't slide or move around on the floor. They're heavy, require some amount of force to be pushed through completely and have comparatively narrow bases. For something more desk friendly, but less realistic, you might also look at the VKB rudder pedals, which offer mechanics that are even comfortably usable while not wearing shoes. It seems they do lack the toebrakes though.

 

[d8veh]

I'm using twin sticks with yaw on the left stick X-axis, throttle on the Y axis and pitch and roll on the right Y and X axes. It works pretty well for most things.

 

[NascentChemist]

BurnyBurns, the only reason to look at the Constellation grip is the twist option. I realize it's cheaper and the LED lighting is gimmicky; allowing me to upgrade AND keep yaw bound to joystick twist is the only draw over the Mongoose or VKB options.

Sorry for missing your input on that other thread. When I drafted my OP, I was more focused on comparing the CH Fighterstick and T.16000M. I'm glad I checked if the CH Fighterstick had twist input before I made a fool of myself.

 

[BurnyBurns]

BurnyBurns, the only reason to look at the Constellation grip is the twist option. I realize it's cheaper and the LED lighting is gimmicky; allowing me to upgrade AND keep yaw bound to joystick twist is the only draw over the Mongoose or VKB options.

Admittedly, it does add up, but even then they've announced twist axis addons for their sticks. At least VKB have. It's the very same dilemma as the with the "Constellation" grip or their throttles however: it isn't available, yet. :/

 

[NascentChemist]

I do like the ability to combine multiple VKB products into one input using their black box.

What do people use the toe breaks for? I really only need the yaw control.

 

[Santisador]

I just got a Gunfighter, after almost three years with an X55.. VKB has a twist adapter coming out but in the meantime I'm using the thumb hat for yaw, it's been a learning curve after using twist but it's getting better.
I like the idea of pedals(especially Slaw Vipers), but I don't sit in a fixed position while I play and I don't want to be that immersed, lol.

 

[Zeeman]

I do like the ability to combine multiple VKB products into one input using their black box.

What do people use the toe breaks for? I really only need the yaw control.

Flight sims, specifically, Western jets, as Russian jets have a brake lever on the stick (very obvious on the VKB and Virpil grips).

I just got a Gunfighter, after almost three years with an X55.. VKB has a twist adapter coming out but in the meantime I'm using the thumb hat for yaw, it's been a learning curve after using twist but it's getting better.
I like the idea of pedals(especially Slaw Vipers), but I don't sit in a fixed position while I play and I don't want to be that immersed, lol.

Gunfighter with MCG Pro? Let me know what you think, seriously considering adding one to my stable...

As for Pedals, the VKB T-Rudder pedals are a seriously good option. More compact and flexible in terms of set up, too (as in placement).

Z..

 

[Santisador]

Yes, Zeeman, with the MCG Pro.
I love it. I can't wait for the twist adapter but I love it. Well built, great button placement and selection, incredible movement.

 

[NascentChemist]

I know it's a good sign that VKB is constantly out of stock, but it's not a lot of fun.

At least a week for a HOTAS and a month for the pedals.

 

[Zeeman]

Worth the wait. Honestly.

Z...

 

[NascentChemist]

And the MCG Gunfighter was pushed back to Jan 25...

 

[BurnyBurns]

How about we start a collective high end flight/space sim input hardware thread? There are now two flight pedal threads, different threads for VCK/Virpil throttles etc.. These all fill the same niche, I doubt anyone here is so emotionally attached to any single manufacturer as to provoke flamewars and anybody in the market for these will probably want to hear from the (hopefully) lucky owners of each how they compare.

 

[Zeeman]

... I doubt anyone here is so emotionally attached to any single manufacturer as to provoke flamewars and anybody in the market for these will probably want to hear from the (hopefully) lucky owners of each how they compare.

I'd like to think so. I know that I, personally, actually love seeing multiple companies producing good stuff. Competition is good, and pushes the companies to make better stuff.

Z...

 

[lysan]

How about we start a collective high end flight/space sim input hardware thread? There are now two flight pedal threads, different threads for VCK/Virpil throttles etc.. These all fill the same niche, I doubt anyone here is so emotionally attached to any single manufacturer as to provoke flamewars and anybody in the market for these will probably want to hear from the (hopefully) lucky owners of each how they compare.

The more we got the better, no such thing as one gadget rules them all.

However as a Slaw viper owner I must say they are outstanding, they feel like the real thing
And there is a lot of possibilities to install them in your cockpit.

Build like a Russian tank and probably same tim of delivery. Mine took 7 month from ordering to receiving them, worth every single day waiting for them.