'Yes' to guilds and/or stations? What services would you like?

[Bran Tse Mallory]

There is a long and in-depth thread about the whole use of guilds in ELITEangerous here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=166180

I run a small guild which does play the game but we keep pretty much to ourselves and we are by no means a large group. Like so many other guilds we use Teamspeak (TS) to talk and have our own forums (which we hardly ever use due to TS).

After reading the entire thread linked above I was wondering what type of support you would expect as either a guild leader or member to be able to do in the game?

Also to those interested in owning a station, what would you expect to be able to do?

Lets keep it civil and to the point, if your not in favour then please use the linked thread to continue that discussion.

 

[quickr]

So what's wrong with mentioned thread and why are you opening another?

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

So what's wrong with mentioned thread and why are you opening another?

Read his last sentence.

I suspect it will fail, though. This is too much a contentious topic for the anti-guild folks to just ignore.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

So what's wrong with mentioned thread and why are you opening another?

The other thread is about whether guilds and owned stations should be allowed, nobody is talking about the possible features/benefits of either of these being in game or if they do they are being lost in the larger debate. While I'm personally not in favour of resources being used to add this i was wondering what players would want/like should this be added to the game at some point in the future.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just discussing with mods about separating the two topics out, because the current thread is a bit of a mess. Not sure if they will agree or just merge similar threads into that one.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thanks Bran for creating this thread.

To those opposed, let this thread run. Even if you're opposed it's good to have the opposing idea better lined out than it is at the moment.

 

[Nicodemus]

Also to those interested in owning a station, what would you expect to be able to do?

To me if players were to "own" a station it would be as part of an NPC faction and using the background sim to gain the control. I would then expect the background sim to create missions for the resupply of the station to allow it to offer services.

e.g A faction takes over as the "owner" of the station. Because of the turmoil involved in becoming the dominant faction the station services have been neglected. So, the station then has missions available for resupplies, fuel, water, air, spare parts etc. Like wise new combat missions are also given to help with station security. Both can have a mini cg associated with them and at the end of a given period the services/ security are then dictated by how well the mini cg performed. (For example you meet the combat mini cg goals and the local security is an Anaconda and some vipers, you fail and it's a couple of sidewinders)

Once that is done, the faction in control then sets some taxation on non faction pilots visiting the station. That money is then used to expand the station/improve the look, or offer a selection of ships for sale or the number of ship upgrades available or to enhance the number of local security ships.

So for me, players do not "own" the station, the minor faction does to which the player has pledged. It is then up to the players to continue to expand or defend this faction or to support it with it's mini cgs.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Before guilds (or what ever name they would get in ED) could be implemented in the game a few things should be added:
- better and easier to use communication system (chat) maybe with custom quick replies.
- a way to store cargo/modules
- a way to transfer money

Things I think are important for a guild:
- a way to invite players without allowing "ninja invites" and without encouraging invite spamming
- a way to organize guild members and an easy to communicate with guild members
- a easy to use hierarchy with enough flexibility to fit for different guild organizations (some like the one king and a few officers, others like the democratic approach to guild management)
- guild logos/decals and colors are always fun, but might require some moderation

I don't think that finding guilds in-game is something that is needed.

Basically a better friends list with some organization, nice decals and space ship paint jobs.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I do have an idea that could be of interest...

Player systems:
There are a huge number of systems that have nothing going on in them, no stations or platforms. How about player groups aligned with a system that they mine resources from in order to build a platform - kind of a community goal.

Mining would be needed as well as other resources with the limits required updated as they are gained. Some way of monitoring the input would be needed and they might have to be delivered to a remote system for processing but eventually a new platform would appear and as a reward for the effort, players who reached a certain amount of input could gain a 5% discount on goods/equipment purchased there.

Gives the players a sense of ownership while not requiring to much work and it expands the bubble!

 

[lilikin]

I think ownership is a big word and it means a lot of things, the Elite universe is very capitalist and IMO owning would mean it making more money. In other games you own a system means you kill everyone who comes into it. That doesn't suit instancing or solo mode etc but I think a group trying to make the system more habitable to a particular player group by effectively say killing pirates (if it suits) and then killing enough meant the background sim sent less to solo players etc and the system flourished therefore more traders and that groups return on their investment improves.
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The opposite is also true want to buy a slot/share/whatever in a station for cheaper then trash it hire privatters etc

Lots of emergent gameplay, without the 5 year old (eve) way of 'owning' something

- - - Updated - - -

I do have an idea that could be of interest...

Player systems:
There are a huge number of systems that have nothing going on in them, no stations or platforms. How about player groups aligned with a system that they mine resources from in order to build a platform - kind of a community goal.

Mining would be needed as well as other resources with the limits required updated as they are gained. Some way of monitoring the input would be needed and they might have to be delivered to a remote system for processing but eventually a new platform would appear and as a reward for the effort, players who reached a certain amount of input could gain a 5% discount on goods/equipment purchased there.

Gives the players a sense of ownership while not requiring to much work and it expands the bubble!

just a tiny repair station at Sag A would make a killing for example, would make a welcome little break and be cool place to hang (if you were hardcore enough to ship (repair parts to Sag A(The economy has to work)))

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

As someone who is generally against the idea of player owned stations, I think the best way for them to work if we did have them would be if they were reliant on player custom to survive, if ganging up and saying "keep out, this is our space" would be shooting themselves in the foot and the worst thing the owners could do if they actually wanted to prosper. If like proper businesses they were competing with each other to attract the custom of the neutral players.

And if it just functioned the same as any regular station to a solo player.

Small secret asteroid bases could be different, but in all honesty I have no objection to them, I just don't see the attraction for myself.

As for guilds, just don't wall off any content from solo players.
And no to owned territory, no to guild storage, no to banks....basically no to guild "cheating"

 

[bamber]

I do have an idea that could be of interest...

Player systems:
There are a huge number of systems that have nothing going on in them, no stations or platforms. How about player groups aligned with a system that they mine resources from in order to build a platform - kind of a community goal.

Mining would be needed as well as other resources with the limits required updated as they are gained. Some way of monitoring the input would be needed and they might have to be delivered to a remote system for processing but eventually a new platform would appear and as a reward for the effort, players who reached a certain amount of input could gain a 5% discount on goods/equipment purchased there.

Gives the players a sense of ownership while not requiring to much work and it expands the bubble!

A fair idea (I am against them but I will provide some comments on the ideas) but if one thinks of an anaconda as 100,000,000 costs then realistically even an outpost needs to be 1000 times that so 1,000,000,000,000Cr. If you did it by material rather than cash - a better idea then - then with a gold devilver would need 10,000,000T to be delivered in a type 9 that would need 200,000 Journeys
is it realistic to do so?

second question is if you can build them can they be destroyed?

if you disagree woith my costs of 1000,000,000,000 how much should a 2 small 1 medium pad outpost cost?

 

[Whiterose]

I want to turn my station into "Elite Lottery". Have a totally empty station full of sideys with numbers on from 1 to 49. Have then piloted by AI's that have failed the AI driving test. First six out of the slot are the weekly lottery numbers.

Or an alternative version is the station security randomly shoots its defence lasers, last six sideys remaining are the lottery numbers.

Or....the little lorries that move around have numbers on them and the security takes them out, last six...you get the picture.

Or....the coriolis spins round really fast, and throws the sideys out of the slot, the first six out....

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I agree there must be a high cost involved and I don't think your figures are unreasonable. This should be hard work to get for obvious reasons.

In terms of its destruction then there could be a cost/trade requirements to keeping the station policed by the AI - if the protection fee is not met the station will fall in to dis-repair with various services becoming unavailable, if after a month the fees had still not been met the station gets dismantled.

Just some thoughts.

 

[bamber]

if the station falls into disrepair while I am on holiday who pays for my fully equipped python with 200T of slaves on board that I parked there?
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Im not trying to pick holes for the sake of it - just see if problems have been considered properly?

 

[xyphic]

My feeling is that player-involved stations should only be done as/when Frontier have the resources to make compelling gameplay around it, otherwise it's simply a device for boosting ego. I also feel that were it to be done, it should be something akin to an expansion where it has little effect on those who aren't bothered about owning or being involved in the running of a station. To that end:

The station ownership game would be something outside of the main game, but its outputs would reflect on the main game (and vice versa). So for example, a well-run station that is affluent would appear in game using one of the 'rich' designs. A poorly run station would appear decrepit. The resources available for buying and selling, the provision of a black market, the bulletin board missions, etc. would all be generated based on the state of the station and how it is run. The minor faction system would be integrated such that those who run the station appear in-game as a faction. If the owner of the station wanted to beef up security, they could hire NPCs (reflected in-game) or put out BB missions for same so that CMDRs are able to legitimately act as a security force (read: protection racket) for the station.

There's an awful lot that could be done around the station or outpost concept, and that could make for a compelling experience for everyone. There's a huge amount of potential for the Elite universe beyond just flying a spaceship, and I hope that the game is enough of a long-term success that Frontier are able to realise that potential.

 

[M00ka]

All I know is I am going to pay extra and get my station specially modified. Going to get the slot reduced by 15%, and increase all repair costs. Change all the numbers on the pads to "1", and have a randomiser allocate parking pads.
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Then I will advertise on a galactic level that I now offer all modules for the Anaconda at a discounted price and sit back and watch

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

if the station falls into disrepair while I am on holiday who pays for my fully equipped python with 200T of slaves on board that I parked there?
.
Im not trying to pick holes for the sake of it - just see if problems have been considered properly?

Good point

How would a docking fee sound? After 1 hour you start to get charged at say 100cr per hour payable on return or added to your bank loan if your broke... maybe even added as a bounty if your unable to pay.

If the station gets dismantled then your ship would have to be moved to a new (local) station with no-fee's for moving you.

Just some ideas

 

[bamber]

docking fee - well its only 34000 so I would camp out the station for that! but no not really something i'm interested in having stns dotted around that charge me. And you see the anger that comes on this forum when anything happens that costs a little more?

cant have ships being moved in the game itself yet so until that is sorted its a no also you are talking about "expanding the bubble" so that could be what a 60LY move for me - perhaps to a station that its now illegal to have slaves and im now in all sorts of trouble with the feds because you havent protected or maintained the station well enough?

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

docking fee - well its only 34000 so I would camp out the station for that! but no not really something i'm interested in having stns dotted around that charge me. And you see the anger that comes on this forum when anything happens that costs a little more?

cant have ships being moved in the game itself yet so until that is sorted its a no also you are talking about "expanding the bubble" so that could be what a 60LY move for me - perhaps to a station that its now illegal to have slaves and im now in all sorts of trouble with the feds because you havent protected or maintained the station well enough?

Cause and effect All good points and part of the reason for this thread to hammer out what could be possible in the game but you can't have something for free, each slice of cake costs money or the baker goes out of business.

Think of the current stations, they would have an economy behind the trading screen we see. Each company operating there would be paying fees to the station owners (rent etc.). A player created station would incur similar costs which would need to be met.

And who is to say that slaves would be legal or not on the station?

You raise a good point with the range, maybe the new station has to be within a certain range of another inhabited system which is where you would be moved to?