Elite / Frontier yet more black hole guff

If there's gonna be black holes, then there's gotta be event horizon effects (or else what's the point?)

So what does an event horizon do? Obviously it's a boundary region from which light can't escape, but what effects would this entail from an observer's point of veiw? Can these effects be modelled in-game?

For example, picture the following thought experiment:

Imagine our ship is travelling at a constant speed relative to and towards a black hole. The ship's attitude is perpendicular to our descent, so we're doing a bellyflop through the event horizon. Let's suppose we have an upper viewing deck, perhaps a little hydroponic biodome garden, as in the 80s movie Saturn 3.

As the ship enters the horizon, it crosses a threshold point where light basically goes into freefall around the black hole. The massive curvature of space-time creates a closed loop - light is still going in a perfectly straight line, but light waves travelling perpendicular to the horizon orbit back on themselves because of this warping of space-time itself.

At this point, if we take a pair of binoculars and look forward across the bow, in the far distance we can see the back of our ship. We'd be looking up our own tailpipes, so to speak, and if we zoomed in on the viewing deck we'd see the backs of our heads.

If we cross over to the stern view and look back we can see the front of our ship in the far-off distance. Likewise if we look starboard we see our port side, and vice versa. Wherever we look across the horizon, there we are off in the distance. An unprepared pilot or navcom system would find they were suddenly surrounded by a multitude of identical ships, literally appearing out of thin air. As we continued on course, these phantom replicas would appear to fly past us in the opposite direction, as if they were travelling back out.

Now suppose there is a second ship accompanying us. As before, our speed is constant travelling towards the black hole. The second ship is stationary, at a safe distance from the horizon.

From the stationary observer's point of view, as our ship nears the horizon it appears to slow down. In reality it hasn't, but the illusion is caused by the same effect described above. As we cross the point of no return, from ship 2's perspective we appear to come to a full stop at the edge of the black hole, and just sit there. From our point of veiw though we've sailed straight through the horizon without even slowing down. The sky above us still looks normal, and besides that brief encounter with our multiple alter egos there's no obvious indication that we've passed the point of no return - in fact, it might take another million years of descent before we experience any adverse effects. However if we try to thrust towards any of the stars above us they will never get any closer - the only escape is hyperspace.

It would be cool to be able to experience these kinds of relativistic effects first hand... temporal/spatial superpositions would be common artifacts in a realistic Elite-like experience.
 
Bounder said:
If there's gonna be black holes, then there's gotta be event horizon effects (or else what's the point?)

It would be cool to be able to experience these kinds of relativistic effects first hand... temporal/spatial superpositions would be common artifacts in a realistic Elite-like experience.

Hmm theoretical physics... my head hurts... That'd be a whole lot of work for an 'effect'. Interesting tho.
 
black hole stuff

I think including black holes into the game would be an interesting feature. At least we should have the super massive black hole at the center of the galaxy included in game (and even the rest of the set-up at the center of the galaxy - its an interesting place after all). It would be a nod to those of us who searched for the illusive thing in the previous games and would be worth the long trek through the galaxy to the center just to see this. But then if you are going to include the things at all then you might as well include middleweights and stellar-mass versions as well. Who knows, you could structure some interesting missions that involve the use of these objects although I have only thought of rescue missions of some sort for now. Yeah, you could say I have an interest in astronomy :).

A great site that explains the nature of all black hole types can be found here, its a very good read and my personal favorite:
http://www.gothosenterprises.com/black_holes/

Just to note, I think it would be great to have the Milky Way simulated as accurately as possible (allowing for imagination to fill in the gaps) with star clusters, nebulae, supernovas and all the other bells and whistles that you can find out there - no other game has done this (not even to Frontier or First Encounters standards). If that's not possible then something along the lines of Frontier/ First Encounters galaxy set-up would be cool - especially with what today's graphics processors can handle. I know that the main aim is to make a really great game, but it can't hurt to attempt to simulate a galaxy in the process.
 
ahhh, "photonsphere". New word for me. Excellent site, cheers for that. From the attention to detail in FE2/FFE I'd bet DB has all sorts of funky ideas for the physics engine...

I'm still curious tho - if you were orbiting at Rs as described in the article, would the beam from your ship's headlights escape, orbit or spiral in? I can't see why the photonsphere is 50% wider than the event horizon. Maybe after a beer it'll all sink in - everything usually falls into place after a few stellas eh...

(ok ok, that's £2 in the "crap puns" box. Apologies)
 
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Bounder said:
ahhh, "photonsphere". New word for me. Excellent site, cheers for that. From the attention to detail in FE2/FFE I'd bet DB has all sorts of funky ideas for the physics engine...

No problem regarding the site. You can bet the man himself has a few aces up his sleeves. I think if his interest in astronomy has grown or remained the same over the years then that will be an essential element to getting a somewhat accurate set-up regarding the galaxy.

I'm still curious tho - if you were orbiting at Rs as described in the article, would the beam from your ship's headlights escape, orbit or spiral in?

I get the feeling the beam would orbit, but that's going on a hunch since I can't really remember at this time - tiredness.

I can't see why the photonsphere is 50% wider than the event horizon. Maybe after a beer it'll all sink in - everything usually falls into place after a few stellas eh...

(ok ok, that's £2 in the "crap puns" box. Apologies)

Me neither, just scratching my head trying to pull on what I understand so far. I don't recall if Hawking's book's (Universe in Nutshell or BH of Time) discusses this because its been some time since I read 'em. That's a pretty funny pun BTW, so here - you can have your £2 back lol.
 
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