PvP You are aware that ED isn't designed as PvP focused game aren't you?
- Thread starter Madrax573
- Start date
Everything you mentioned I have seen and continue to see all over the place in Dangerous Discussions and and other PvE-centric parts of these forums as well as other ED related forums. Just step into a thread in Dangerous Discussions right now and you'll see at least one of the above from non-PvP players.
The only item I see popping up more frequently from PvPers keyboards is the complaint that the mods are biased. That can be attributed to two things:
1) PvPers are outnumbered on this forum and before the invention of the PvP section they frequently got ganged up on when posting any kind of pro-PvP thread or post. This breeds a kind of "the world is against me" type of mentality among some people and they assume the mods are against them too.
2) The mods aren't perfect and some of them have unfortunately shown unfair treatment against perfectly calm PvP threads in the past.
P.S. Not too sure if FDev have ever called the PvP community a "loud" minority. All they've ever said is that the PvP players are a smaller population than the PvE players but that the PvP players tend to provide better and more focused feedback during betas.
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Yep it's definitely two way, I tried searching the forum for instances of "coward" "carebear" "psycho" and "bully" but they all return more results than search can handle.
Genuine PVP'ers probably get some extra bad press from people who are only in it just for the salt mining as they always claim to be PVP'ers.
Before reading on, I'm just going to point out that calling people biased makes them more likely to be harsh with you, which makes you more likely to call them biased and so on and so on.
I can see that, I think a lot of it stems from PVP'ers requiring cooperation from other players to get what they want out of the game, but having a competitive sometimes confrontational approach which actively deters non-PVP'ers. PVE'ers just react with meh I'll stick to group/solo and there's no counter to that which leads to frustration name calling and Mobius invasions.
Sick of the same four year old arguments and looking to shut it down before it inevitably gets out of hand could explain quickly closing threads with certain trigger words in them. I'd say in terms of deliberately stirring poop PVP'ers are ahead (especially salt miners, it's their "win" after all).
I can't remember exactly where the quote is from one of the DEV's, I think the phrase used was actually "vocal minority" which is a polite way of saying "loud".
There is a certain brand of PvPer who will cry foul on the moderation because having a little introspection is alien to them. "Maybe I should be more careful what I post" is a sentiment that is unheard of. The entitled snowflakes feel their postings should not have to comply with forums rules.
So whenever they get mod attention, as everyone here does, it is proof they are singled out as PvPers. It's a self fulfilled prophecy generator that is more water tight than an otter's anus.
I have been banned using a word that was used 10s of times by the person I was replying to: crybaby.
That person was telling every PvEer that posting that PvEers where crybabies in many, many post. Stealthy even made a collection of them. Upon me telling him to stop being a crybaby about it, I was banned.
My anecdotal evidence > your anecdotal evidence.
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All the shouting about the state of ED PVP etc is IMO directed in the wrong manner.
Lets look at it and break it down.
There are simply way too many systems out there. This means that player density is tiny compared to what most PvP'er are comparing ED to, EVE online.
Low player density mean that PvP has to be a 'thing' that people congregate to do.
This in term follows that ED was simply not designed with 'organic' PvP in mind.
Enter CQC. If you are going someplace to have 'fair' fights and not random organic PvP, piracy, ganking etc then CQC is exactly what it's there for. And quite frankly most of the arguments against CQC from PvP'er I've seen really do boil down to the lack of ability to gank randoms in game.
Here is a ready made 'matchmaking' system with relatively balanced ships etc that you can fight over and over again. That it's a barren wasteland most of the time is more a reflection on the players desires than the ability of CQC to deliver fun fair fights.
The Modes.
If there is ever a bigger statement that indicates ED was never intended as a free for all PvP game this is it.
I fly open 90% of the time and I'm an avid PvP'er in EVE but ED is a totally different beast and all the suggestions to try and get ED more like EVE pvp really are directed at deaf ears IMO. I think FDev don't want ED to have a EVE PvP feel to it. And I agree tbh. If you want EVE style PvP then go play EVE.
I'll don my firefighting suit now
Greetings, so here we go again?
Lets see, shall we have a look at things Elite?
Compare Elite to what ever game you like. I am content Elite coming along nicely, it is , at least in its PvP mode, unique.
In Solo, Elite is a dedicated PvE game, single player.
In PG, Elite is whatever is agreeable; just in that little shard. There are as many shards, in as many facets and coloring folks may possibly desire.
In Open, you face all of the above and on top of that the icing - PvP. As we all know be now, I trust, Open is the only mode that deliberately puts players possibly against each other without their expressed desire to do so; although, technically that's not true, hit Open, you say Yes to PvP.
Doesen't matter how structured Open play in Elite is, you can "solo" in this mode, you can PvE in this mode and you can, at all times, everywhere play PvP and you don't have to ask first, everyone in it is fair game. Or else would long have left the mode.
Open is the most important PvP mode in Elite. Especially of the outmost importance for those finding it not agreeable, for obvious reasons.
CQC is CQC.
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It's definitely not going to endear that person to your way of thinking, yes. But on the other hand the moderators are chosen for their ability to not hold grudges or have knee jerk reactions when moderating. It's maybe not very fair, especially for unpaid workers, but they are expected to rise above being triggered or goaded when the mod hat is on.
From some types of PvPers yes, but not all. There's also something to be said about when a normal PvP related thread used to pop up in Deranged Discussions asking for tactics advice or wanting to know where to find willing PvPers, etc and it almost always got peppered with passive aggressive "this is why I play in Solo/Mobius" posts. There are and always will be poop stirers on both sides.
You must not have visited the BGS player faction threads then. The deliberate shizz posting, poop stirring and salt farmers over there would give any PvP salt miners a damn good run for their money. The toxicity on display from the a-holes is the same no matter the play style, the only difference is the level of exposure/visibility that PvP gets due to its more direct nature.
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Yep and I'm sure they all try to do exactly that, however if the poster in question has been calling them biased for months their subconscious will be pushing against that infraction finger. If they were genuinely biased they'd have hit every PVP'er who ever complained about mod bias with an infraction for "querying moderators actions" every time they said it.
I genuinely think it's mostly down to name-calling.
Agreed, it doesn't help that all the PK'ers proudly call themselves PVP'ers and tend to pop up in all sorts of unrelated threads desperately trying to suck salt out of people like some rubber faced star trek monster. PVP'ers should call them out on it, they've ruined PVP'ers and PVP's reputation. When a PVE'er has a go he probably thinks he's talking to just another salt sucking PK'er.
I never go there, when I'm BGS'ing I always use the INARA wing board it has wing orders, loads of peripheral info easily at hand, you can search by CMDR name as a crude form of IFF and non-members can't see what you are doing or try to fling poop at you.
Totally 100% agree with what you have said.
But none of that indicates that ED is a PvP FOCUSED game. Yes you have capacity for PvP in many forms but only reinforces that ED do not indeed have a pvp focus seeing as it so easy to avoid any form of PvP altogether.
Having said that I'm not having a go at PvP or PvP'ers per say and generally I identify more with PvP concepts than PvE but It is something that I think gets missed in some of the rhetoric in the forum combat that happens regularly.
LOL yeah my old toon before I sold him was Taoist Dragon. At one point I was top 5k on Battleclinic and my focus was FW. PvP with a decent payout for minimal PvE
Looks like BC is dead and buried now so here is the link to zkillboard but I'm not sure what the toon has been upto for the last few years tbh.
https://zkillboard.com/character/90373463/
PvPer are proficient in the game but it never asks to be proficient in exploration.
Totally 100% agree with what you have said.
But none of that indicates that ED is a PvP FOCUSED game. Yes you have capacity for PvP in many forms but only reinforces that ED do not indeed have a pvp focus seeing as it so easy to avoid any form of PvP altogether.
Having said that I'm not having a go at PvP or PvP'ers per say and generally I identify more with PvP concepts than PvE but It is something that I think gets missed in some of the rhetoric in the forum combat that happens regularly.
Yes, Elite in itself is about many things. I said so elsewhere.
Not monolithic I find. I wouldn't call PvP, or anything else dominant, except PvP in its very nature and concept is competitive and based around conflict rather then agreement, so it stands out a little and has consequences far all in our case, Open. Elite is only a PvP game as much as it is a Solo player experience, or agreeable coop. Hence the modes. I find you can perfectly do, what ever pleases you in Open. Ignoring PvP in Open though, doesen't help the matter.
The discussions, PvE good, coop good & PvP bad, gets a little old. Is all.
Cheers mate
All the shouting about the state of ED PVP etc is IMO directed in the wrong manner.
Lets look at it and break it down.
There are simply way too many systems out there. This means that player density is tiny compared to what most PvP'er are comparing ED to, EVE online.
Low player density mean that PvP has to be a 'thing' that people congregate to do.
This in term follows that ED was simply not designed with 'organic' PvP in mind.
Enter CQC. If you are going someplace to have 'fair' fights and not random organic PvP, piracy, ganking etc then CQC is exactly what it's there for. And quite frankly most of the arguments against CQC from PvP'er I've seen really do boil down to the lack of ability to gank randoms in game.
Here is a ready made 'matchmaking' system with relatively balanced ships etc that you can fight over and over again. That it's a barren wasteland most of the time is more a reflection on the players desires than the ability of CQC to deliver fun fair fights.
The Modes.
If there is ever a bigger statement that indicates ED was never intended as a free for all PvP game this is it.
I fly open 90% of the time and I'm an avid PvP'er in EVE but ED is a totally different beast and all the suggestions to try and get ED more like EVE pvp really are directed at deaf ears IMO. I think FDev don't want ED to have a EVE PvP feel to it. And I agree tbh. If you want EVE style PvP then go play EVE.
I'll don my firefighting suit now
Somthing likes this ?
can you shoot/kill a cmdr in ED ? answer: yes
can you undermine the work and the habitat (system-station) of cmdrs ? yes through bgs in all modes ( and this ia actually a joke from fdev to us)
as long both of these are true pvp exists and even as a feature should be better designed and implemented in ED.
economic reasons and a player base that wants a space explore/truck/race sim. won't let it happen
can you undermine the work and the habitat (system-station) of cmdrs ? yes through bgs in all modes ( and this ia actually a joke from fdev to us)
as long both of these are true pvp exists and even as a feature should be better designed and implemented in ED.
economic reasons and a player base that wants a space explore/truck/race sim. won't let it happen