Zirconium

Hello! I've been putting together a list of good planets, with lots of geological sites, to farm G4/5 elements.

Now I've got quite a few "pure" planets for every G4/5 element, bar Selenium and Zirconium.
Selenium doesn't spawn from needle crystals, due to some bug, so is never a pure source.

But Zirconium, doesn't ever seem to be the only G4 element on any planet I've scanned. (And I've scanned hundreds).
Is this another bug? Or does someone have an elusive pure Zirconium planet with geological sites?

Thanks!
 
Selenium doesn't spawn from needle crystals, due to some bug, so is never a pure source.
It's not - well, not exactly - a bug, but rather the consequence of various inconsistencies in how raw materials have been integrated with different game mechanics over the years.

There are three separate grading schemes in use for elements.

There is the geological grading system, introduced in 2.0, which has one "very rare" (or G4), two "rare" (or G3), and three "common" (or G2) elements associated with each planet (plus the five "very common", if it's not a metal-rich world). In 2.0 this was the grading scheme used on the interface. This grading scheme is the relevant one when prospecting surface sites - and only G4 materials on this scheme will appear in pure form from needle crystals.
(There are also the three "laser mining only" elements - Rhenium, Lead and Boron - introduced in 3.0, which don't fit into this scheme at all)

There is the engineer grading system, introduced in 2.1 and regularised in 2.1.05, which places materials into blueprint costs. Unlike the others, this is a five grade system to match that used for data and manufactured, with G1 equal to the geological "very common", G2 containing most but not all of the "common", G3 being a mix of "common" and "rare", G4 a mix of "rare" and "very rare", and G5 the remaining "very rare". From 2.1, this grading scheme was displayed on in-game interfaces instead. (The new 3.0 elements appear in no blueprints so their position in this scheme is unknown)

The introduction of material traders introduced the economic grading system in 3.0, which like the geological grading system, only has four grades - but unlike the geological grading system, has an equal number of elements at each grade, to fit into a rectangle. From 3.0, the in-game interfaces were updated to display this grading scheme.

The economic and geological grading schemes are very similar - with Selenium being the only mainstream place where they differ.

So: Selenium is G2 geological, G3 engineer, and G4 economic. As a G2 geological it won't appear from needle crystals (but this is *good* for players because it means you can get two G4 economic materials from any Selenium-containing world, and "beat the system").
Zirconium is G2 geological, G3 engineer, and G2 economic. I'm not sure why you think it's G4 as none of the schemes put it there.



You might be wondering why we have three different systems. In 2.1, when engineers rolled out, the raw grading system was extended to five grades. In the first Beta, this was discovered to have scrambled the previously-known material compositions of planets. In those days, with the only way to prospect a planet being to get an SRV and shoot some rocks (Detailed Surface Scanner prospecting wouldn't come until 2.2) ... and the FSD Boost materials being very valuable to pre-engineering explorers ... this got a bunch of instant bug reports. To avoid making a massive amount of community exploration effort obsolete, Frontier separated the engineer worth of a rock from its geological rarity.

At this time, of course, no-one had even considered material traders, or that they might require an equal number of materials at each level. So when 3.0 introduced them, Frontier had to make them pay *way* over the odds for Selenium, and introduce 3 space-only materials, to get the raw materials to fit into a rectangle with minimum difference to the earlier schemes. Some of the prototype material trader schemes in early 3.0 betas were a lot more of a mess - this one is probably the best which can be done without completely trashing all 3.0 community material prospecting ... or rewriting a lot of engineering recipes.

So ... not exactly a bug, but certainly a good example of the risks of iterative design ;)
 
Interesting read! Thanks for that detailed lesson on the history of elements! :D

Clears a lot of stuff up!


However, I'm quite sure Zirconium shows up as a G4 material in your ships inventory, when it's filtered to only show G4 materials.
Which is why it was on my list of "high grade" elements to scout for.
Odd!

I probably should have used to material trader list as my guide instead, but alas, it wasn't docked when I decided to make that list. :D
 
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It's not - well, not exactly - a bug, but rather the consequence of various inconsistencies in how raw materials have been integrated with different game mechanics over the years.

There are three separate grading schemes in use for elements.

There is the geological grading system, introduced in 2.0, which has one "very rare" (or G4), two "rare" (or G3), and three "common" (or G2) elements associated with each planet (plus the five "very common", if it's not a metal-rich world). In 2.0 this was the grading scheme used on the interface. This grading scheme is the relevant one when prospecting surface sites - and only G4 materials on this scheme will appear in pure form from needle crystals.
(There are also the three "laser mining only" elements - Rhenium, Lead and Boron - introduced in 3.0, which don't fit into this scheme at all)

There is the engineer grading system, introduced in 2.1 and regularised in 2.1.05, which places materials into blueprint costs. Unlike the others, this is a five grade system to match that used for data and manufactured, with G1 equal to the geological "very common", G2 containing most but not all of the "common", G3 being a mix of "common" and "rare", G4 a mix of "rare" and "very rare", and G5 the remaining "very rare". From 2.1, this grading scheme was displayed on in-game interfaces instead. (The new 3.0 elements appear in no blueprints so their position in this scheme is unknown)

The introduction of material traders introduced the economic grading system in 3.0, which like the geological grading system, only has four grades - but unlike the geological grading system, has an equal number of elements at each grade, to fit into a rectangle. From 3.0, the in-game interfaces were updated to display this grading scheme.

The economic and geological grading schemes are very similar - with Selenium being the only mainstream place where they differ.

So: Selenium is G2 geological, G3 engineer, and G4 economic. As a G2 geological it won't appear from needle crystals (but this is *good* for players because it means you can get two G4 economic materials from any Selenium-containing world, and "beat the system").
Zirconium is G2 geological, G3 engineer, and G2 economic. I'm not sure why you think it's G4 as none of the schemes put it there.



You might be wondering why we have three different systems. In 2.1, when engineers rolled out, the raw grading system was extended to five grades. In the first Beta, this was discovered to have scrambled the previously-known material compositions of planets. In those days, with the only way to prospect a planet being to get an SRV and shoot some rocks (Detailed Surface Scanner prospecting wouldn't come until 2.2) ... and the FSD Boost materials being very valuable to pre-engineering explorers ... this got a bunch of instant bug reports. To avoid making a massive amount of community exploration effort obsolete, Frontier separated the engineer worth of a rock from its geological rarity.

At this time, of course, no-one had even considered material traders, or that they might require an equal number of materials at each level. So when 3.0 introduced them, Frontier had to make them pay *way* over the odds for Selenium, and introduce 3 space-only materials, to get the raw materials to fit into a rectangle with minimum difference to the earlier schemes. Some of the prototype material trader schemes in early 3.0 betas were a lot more of a mess - this one is probably the best which can be done without completely trashing all 3.0 community material prospecting ... or rewriting a lot of engineering recipes.

So ... not exactly a bug, but certainly a good example of the risks of iterative design ;)

Thank you for scientific explanation...now all that make sense!
 
Now explain rhenium.

All the three new ones they added (lead + boron + rhenium) are weird - only available in one way, very low drop rate, and not useful in any way.

* If they are to support "future content" the drop rate is too low.
* If they aren't going to do anything - why add them?

Weird.
 
All the three new ones they added (lead + boron + rhenium) are weird - only available in one way, very low drop rate, and not useful in any way.

* If they are to support "future content" the drop rate is too low.
* If they aren't going to do anything - why add them?

Weird.

According to Ian, they were added to create a uniform trading system, but currently serve no purpose, except filling out the trading table.

I assume drop rates can be increased any time, should they ever be included in blueprints or synthesis.
I don't think they can be added to planets without disrupting the current make up of materials, which a lot of people (myself included) have spent a great deal of time prospecting and documenting.
(Although, I intentionally kept my list of planets short, just in case something like that happens)
 
Not sure if already mentioned, but Kolii Discii crashed conda is your friend here.

Compared to farming geological sites of known quantities? You gotta be kidding...Trust me, if you currently farm anacondas, a list of known good volcanism sites is your friend. ;)
 
What are needle crystals?

Needle crystals are the highest form of element node found at geological sites of planets with volcanism.

You have Piceous Cobble which will randomly drop an element from the G1 pool for the body, then you have Crystalline Fragments, which always randomly drop an element from the G2 pool for a body, then you have Crystalline clusters which drop random elements from the G3 pool of the body, and finally needle crystals which always drop a G4.

The exceptions to these are Selenium and Zirconium which are G4 but drop from G2 sources (because they used to be g2 before the changes and something was forgotten), and Antimony and Polonium which are G4 but listed as G5.
 
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Compared to farming geological sites of known quantities? You gotta be kidding...Trust me, if you currently farm anacondas, a list of known good volcanism sites is your friend. ;)

Nope, conda is faster unless you go to one of those crystalline shards site. And there is no such thing for Zirconium as far as I know.
 
Nope, conda is faster unless you go to one of those crystalline shards site. And there is no such thing for Zirconium as far as I know.

As someone who stopped going to condas as soon as geological sites could be identified from orbit, I can't agree, but it's cool, whatever works for you. :)

edit: Caveat...faster for Antimony, maybe. But the trick to selecting a geological site, is going to one that not only has the g4 you need, but also a few G3s, you can get 50 G4 and 50 G3 from one good site, and it's a lot more interesting than logging off and on, too.
 
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As someone who stopped going to condas as soon as geological sites could be identified from orbit, I can't agree, but it's cool, whatever works for you. :)

edit: Caveat...faster for Antimony, maybe. But the trick to selecting a geological site, is going to one that not only has the g4 you need, but also a few G3s, you can get 50 G4 and 50 G3 from one good site, and it's a lot more interesting than logging off and on, too.

Yup - I'd always used the geo / bio sites, but recently thought I should try a 'conda as people were still recommending them ... don't think I'll be back... (edit: to the conda :) )
 
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