Zoopedia Errors: Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman

[ReptoMin]

The recent changes made to Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman's temperature suitability range prompted me to prepare this post. The lower limit even before the change bothered me for being too low, however, now that the figure has dropped to 6 Celsius, it is even more concerning.

Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (Paleosuchus palpebrosus) is a strictly tropical species that has a distribution confined to the lowlands of the Amazon Basin, and does not experience cold temperatures in the wild. It does indeed have a niche to tolerate cool streams without the need to bask, which I will explain in detail below, but this has got nothing to do with temperate biomes or cold weather. What worries me the most is, this is a game that stresses the importance of guest education, so people, especially kids, take the information in the game quite seriously. Kids playing the game might be mislead into thinking they can expose their pet caiman to extreme temperatures.

Identifying the problems:

1. Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans live in temperate regions: False. In fact, when compared to caimans that live in subtropical zones, their range is much more restricted to equatorial South America. Broad-Snouted Caiman (Caiman latirostris) and Yacare Caiman (Caiman yacare) both live in subtropical South America. The statement about Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans being more tolerant of cooler temperatures only applies to other strictly tropical species of caiman like the Black Caiman (Melanosuchus niger).
2. What's this whole cool temperature suitability about? This is a special niche this species occupies. Their cool temperature tolerance comes from the niche of minimized basking, not occupying cool regions like high elevation or low latitude areas. In fact they are restricted to lowlands (under 400m) and latitudes with a tropical climate. The "cool temperatures" being mentioned here are tropical streams that are near its source, with a temperature range of 20-25 Celsius, instead of the 25-30 Celsius range preferred by the other tropical caimans of South America. As you can see it is far from the temperate climate range specified in the game.
3. But it says in one of the sources they can survive 6 degrees? Yes, indeed. But this is an experiment conducted in a laboratory setting. If you put any animal to the test, they will survive exceptional temperatures before dying, which doesn't prove their preferred temperature range is as such. If you place a polar bear in a 35 degree environment, it isn't going to drop dead, but according to the game it is way past their acceptable range. Moreover, at temperatures of 5-6 Celsius, the caimans in the game have near 100% welfare, when in reality they should be dying, even according to that lab experiment. This is because animals lose a certain amount of welfare per degree of temperature past their suitable range. With the old figure (11 C), they at least had 0 welfare at 6 degrees. The only crocodilian that could potentially have suitability as low as 6 or 8 C in the game would be the American Alligator. Also the Chinese Alligator, but not likely to be included in the game.
4. How should Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman's temperature range compare to other crocodilians in the game? Larger bodied crocodilians can regulate their core temperature much better, compared to smaller bodied ones, which is why you rarely see small species like Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman in outdoors exhibits outside the tropics, when larger species are often displayed outside. So, the Dwarf Caiman should have a more restricting temperature range (both upper and lower limits) than the other two species we have in the game, the Gharial and Saltwater Crocodile, which are both large species, as well as having ranges that include subtropical regions. Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman should actually have been an indoor exhibit animal, but when you consider they can display more animations as habitat animals, I understand the choice in making them habitat. But if this is the decision taken, then they should have the temperate biome removed and have temperature suitability range reduced on both ends.

Solutions:

1. Removal of temperate biome from Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman: Since this is a species that does not range in temperate or even subtropical zones both in terms of altitude and latitude, this category is completely irrelevant to the species and must be removed.
2. Adjusting upper limits for temperature suitability: I would suggest an upper limit of 35-37 C for the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman and 37-39 C for the Gharial and Saltwater Crocodile. Even though this is slightly higher than the recommended range in the sources below, it will give players flexibility from a game-play perspective. Just like in the example of the two Hippos, despite having tags for a biome that can get hotter in the game, having a slightly lower suitability limit will underline the special case of sensitivity for high temperatures of semi-aquatic animals, but also will not cause any gameplay issues, as their welfare will still be in the green, and they won't be seeking shelter or shade since their temperature suitability will still be green. It takes about 10 degrees over the limit to get 0 suitability for temperature, so the limit doesn't need to be set equal to 42 Celsius for it not to cause any game-play issues.
3. Adjusting lower limits for temperature suitability: I would suggest a lower limit of 14-16 C for the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, and 12-14 C for the Gharial and Saltwater Crocodile. Again, these values are lower than recommended but will give players flexibility to avoid any problems with gameplay.
4. Adjusting tropical biome temperature range in the game: Tropical climates are known for the most uniform temperatures year-round, as well as minimal change between daytime and nighttime temperatures. Therefore it should never get too hot in the tropical biome map. Temperatures in the 40's should never happen. I would suggest a regular high of 33 C during the day with clear skies, and perhaps a heatwave of 37 C as an extreme high.

Sources:
1) https://ppbio.inpa.gov.br/sites/default/files/1-s2.0-S0306456512001398-main.pdf
Source showing the purpose and extent of the special niche to tolerate "cool" (20-25 C) temperatures of streams and not temperate regions:
"Secretive species, such as species of Osteolaemus and Paleosuchus, rarely show basking behavior in the wild" "The mean monthly body temperature of P. palpebrosus in the stream we studied varied little (20.1–25.6 C) throughout the year and was generally close to water temperature in the stream.", "Most species do not occur in environments that have temperatures that are constantly below about 25 C.", "However, P. trigonatus occurs in tropical rainforest streams that have water temperatures 25 C, and where opportunities to bask are limited"
2) https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Paleosuchus_palpebrosus/
Includes the source demonstrating the 6 Celsius mortality experiment
3) http://crocodilian.com/paleosuchus/captivecare.html
Care sheet by Dr. Adam Britton for Paleosuchus, a genus best kept indoors:
"If you aim at a high of about 33° C and a low of 24 - 25°C within the enclosure, you'll have a 'thermally-happy' caiman."
4) http://crocodilian.com/crocfaq/faq-4.html#5.2.1
Temperatures over 40 C should be avoided with all crocodilians, but our in-game crocodilians are happy with temperatures even in the upper 40's, due to their very high upper limit (42 C) and the 10 degrees it takes for their temperature suitability to reach zero (52 C):
"Nearly all species have a preferred body temperature of between 29 and 34 C (84 to 93 F), so naturally their environment must also contain these temperatures. Remember it's the body temperature which is important here, and ideally most species try and get their internal body temperature to around 30 or 31 C (86 or 88 F). Air temperatures can reach around 36 C (97F) during the day as long as the animal has an area to cool off when its internal temperature starts to get a little too warm. At night, temperatures should be lower to help simulate a natural day/night cycle, and can drop to around 20 C (68 F) as long as water temperatures are warm. Water temperature can be maintained at a fairly constant temperature. Around 27 to 31 C (81 to 88 F) is a good temperature range to aim for, although this can be slightly warmer if desired. Caimans and other crocodilians are fairly tolerant of short-term fluctuations in temperature, although it is more important to ensure that the animal does not overheat. Temperatures above 40 C (104 F) should be avoided."
5) https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/46587/3009946
Source showing their tropical and low elevation distribution and biome types.
6) http://crocodilian.com/cnhc/cst_ppal_dh_map.htm
7) http://crocodilian.com/cnhc/cst_clat_dh_map.htm
8) http://crocodilian.com/cnhc/cst_cyac_dh_map.htm

 

[Ursidae]

Good point.

Tropical animals added in the last few DLC's seem to be overusing the temperate biome. Malayan tapir is another example. The only two animals that have a proper temperate zone distribution in the last DLC are the clouded leopard and dhole. I also understand to an extent the sun bear and binturong, but the Malayan tapir is way off. It should have its temperate biome tag removed.

Same with the caiman like you pointed out. A strictly equatorial species. Honestly, the only reason they have the temperature issues you mentioned is because they are trying to make it compatible with the temperate map in the game. If the temperate biome is removed from their filters, all the temperature related things can also be fixed easily.

The Japanese macaque is another animal that uses extreme values for its temperature range. It shouldn't have a lower limit than bears, wolves, bison, pronghorn, camel or red pandas. It seems these two animals, caiman and macaque, use a completely different method for their temperature ranges than all the other animals in the game.

 

[DrBurrito]

I was going to make a thread about temperature suitability/tolerance inconsistencies, but since this issue has been raised here, I might as well pitch in.

The Japanese macaque is another animal that uses extreme values for its temperature range. It shouldn't have a lower limit than bears, wolves, bison, pronghorn, camel or red pandas. It seems these two animals, caiman and macaque, use a completely different method for their temperature ranges than all the other animals in the game.

This is a very accurate observation. A different and inconsistent approach to temperature suitability for some animals creates discrepancies in the game. Some have been assigned extreme temperatures they can tolerate, while others have moderate values. The table below clearly emphasizes this issue.

Species	Temperature Tolerance According to the Zoopedia	Temperature Suitability Limit as a Requirement
Arctic Wolf	-53 °C	-12 °C
Japanese Macaque	-20 °C	-15 °C
Snow Leopard	-25 °C	-4 °C
Timber Wolf	-40 °C	-8 °C

Even this simple table shows that the animal that has the least cold tolerance (Japanese Macaque), has the lowest temperature suitability as a game mechanic, while it should have been the other way around. I would suggest a value of 0 °C, as this value will not only be consistent with the rest of the animals/table above, but it will also be compatible with the game mechanics. Even during snowy days on the 'Taiga' map, the Japanese Macaques will have 70% temperature suitability (green), thanks to their strong cold tolerance stat (losing only 10% temperature suitability per 1 °C) and thus won't even seek shelter. Only on snowy nights (-5 °C) will they have a temperature suitability of 50% (yellow) but an overall welfare in the green. While in shelter, they will have 100% temperature suitability and welfare, without any additional heating.

I would suggest applying the same logic to some of the other animals with the 'Taiga' tag, most notably the two animals that recently received this tag (Formosan Black Bear and Giant Panda), as well as the recently added Dhole, which also has a 'Taiga' tag:

• Formosan Black Bear already has a limit of 0 °C, which is sufficient, but loses 20% temperature suitability per 1 °C, like most animals categorized solely as 'Tropical' in the game. Perhaps Formosan Black Bear was initially planned as a tropical-only animal, but when it received the other tags, this detail was forgotten. I would suggest making it 10% per 1 °C, or in other words taking 10 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability.
• Giant Pandas have a limit of 2 °C, and it takes 8 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability, both of which aren't enough to cope with their new 'Taiga' map tag. I would suggest either making the tolerance gradient 15 °C instead of 8 °C and keeping the 2 °C lower limit, or making the lower limit 0 °C and keeping the current gradient.
• The Dhole is another animal suffering from the tropical-only classification, like the Formosan Black Bear. When its blueprint was initially created, 'Tropical' and 'Grasslands' was probably the only two tags it had. Since they have cooler climate tags now, like 'Temperate' and 'Taiga', they deserve a better tolerance gradient. A tolerance gradient of 10 °C will do if the suitability limit is lowered to 0 °C, or 15 °C if the limit stays the same at 3 °C.
• Pronghorn is an exception, and doesn't require a change, as it takes them 15 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability, compared to the Giant Panda's 8 °C and Formosan Black Bear's 5 °C. The Pronghorn is perfectly fine as is. They do fine even on the 'Tundra' map.

As you can see, I have been testing a lot in sandbox. I have much more data to share, but I will keep those for a later thread I am planning. For now these 5 animals will be enough, as they are the ones relevant to this thread's discussion.

Regarding the original post, I must say the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman should have its 'Temperate' tag removed, as it causes more problems than it does good, like the OP has suggested. Plus it isn't an animal that hails in from temperate regions. Same thing applies to the Colombian White-Faced Capuchin, as I fear they will also have their temperature suitability limit lowered in the next patch, to make them "Temperate biome map compatible". I strongly advise against this change, as primates (other than a few exceptions), should never be exposed to cold temperatures in captivity, without access to indoor/heated areas. Capuchins are a strictly tropical species and it is best to have the 'Temperate' tag removed. Perhaps this was an error to begin with, as seen in the past with some other animals like the Aldabra Giant Tortoise and Lesser Antillean Iguana (having the 'Temperate' tag instead of 'Tropical') and the Sun Bear's current education board tag ('Aquatic'). My guess is, the intended secondary biome was 'Grasslands' for the Capuchin, which ended up being 'Temperate' by mistake, as the IUCN categorizes moist savannas as "Suitable" for this species:

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

Established in 1964, the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species has evolved to become the world’s most comprehensive information source on the global conservation status of animal, fungi and plant species.

www.iucnredlist.org

 

[Ursidae]

I was going to make a thread about temperature suitability/tolerance inconsistencies, but since this issue has been raised here, I might as well pitch in.



This is a very accurate observation. A different and inconsistent approach to temperature suitability for some animals creates discrepancies in the game. Some have been assigned extreme temperatures they can tolerate, while others have moderate values. The table below clearly emphasizes this issue.

Species	Temperature Tolerance According to the Zoopedia	Temperature Suitability Limit as a Requirement
Arctic Wolf	-53 °C	-12 °C
Japanese Macaque	-20 °C	-15 °C
Snow Leopard	-25 °C	-4 °C
Timber Wolf	-40 °C	-8 °C

Even this simple table shows that the animal that has the least cold tolerance (Japanese Macaque), has the lowest temperature suitability as a game mechanic, while it should have been the other way around. I would suggest a value of 0 °C, as this value will not only be consistent with the rest of the animals/table above, but it will also be compatible with the game mechanics. Even during snowy days on the 'Taiga' map, the Japanese Macaques will have 70% temperature suitability (green), thanks to their strong cold tolerance stat (losing only 10% temperature suitability per 1 °C) and thus won't even seek shelter. Only on snowy nights (-5 °C) will they have a temperature suitability of 50% (yellow) but an overall welfare in the green. While in shelter, they will have 100% temperature suitability and welfare, without any additional heating.

I would suggest applying the same logic to some of the other animals with the 'Taiga' tag, most notably the two animals that recently received this tag (Formosan Black Bear and Giant Panda), as well as the recently added Dhole, which also has a 'Taiga' tag:

• Formosan Black Bear already has a limit of 0 °C, which is sufficient, but loses 20% temperature suitability per 1 °C, like most animals categorized solely as 'Tropical' in the game. Perhaps Formosan Black Bear was initially planned as a tropical-only animal, but when it received the other tags, this detail was forgotten. I would suggest making it 10% per 1 °C, or in other words taking 10 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability.
• Giant Pandas have a limit of 2 °C, and it takes 8 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability, both of which aren't enough to cope with their new 'Taiga' map tag. I would suggest either making the tolerance gradient 15 °C instead of 8 °C and keeping the 2 °C lower limit, or making the lower limit 0 °C and keeping the current gradient.
• The Dhole is another animal suffering from the tropical-only classification, like the Formosan Black Bear. When its blueprint was initially created, 'Tropical' and 'Grasslands' was probably the only two tags it had. Since they have cooler climate tags now, like 'Temperate' and 'Taiga', they deserve a better tolerance gradient. A tolerance gradient of 10 °C will do if the suitability limit is lowered to 0 °C, or 15 °C if the limit stays the same at 3 °C.
• Pronghorn is an exception, and doesn't require a change, as it takes them 15 °C to reach 0% temperature suitability, compared to the Giant Panda's 8 °C and Formosan Black Bear's 5 °C. The Pronghorn is perfectly fine as is. They do fine even on the 'Tundra' map.

As you can see, I have been testing a lot in sandbox. I have much more data to share, but I will keep those for a later thread I am planning. For now these 5 animals will be enough, as they are the ones relevant to this thread's discussion.

Regarding the original post, I must say the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman should have its 'Temperate' tag removed, as it causes more problems than it does good, like the OP has suggested. Plus it isn't an animal that hails in from temperate regions. Same thing applies to the Colombian White-Faced Capuchin, as I fear they will also have their temperature suitability limit lowered in the next patch, to make them "Temperate biome map compatible". I strongly advise against this change, as primates (other than a few exceptions), should never be exposed to cold temperatures in captivity, without access to indoor/heated areas. Capuchins are a strictly tropical species and it is best to have the 'Temperate' tag removed. Perhaps this was an error to begin with, as seen in the past with some other animals like the Aldabra Giant Tortoise and Lesser Antillean Iguana (having the 'Temperate' tag instead of 'Tropical') and the Sun Bear's current education board tag ('Aquatic'). My guess is, the intended secondary biome was 'Grasslands' for the Capuchin, which ended up being 'Temperate' by mistake, as the IUCN categorizes moist savannas as "Suitable" for this species:

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

Established in 1964, the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species has evolved to become the world’s most comprehensive information source on the global conservation status of animal, fungi and plant species.

www.iucnredlist.org

A third animal that would apply here is the Malayan tapir. They are oddly cold tolerant in the game. The photos below are from a tundra map zoo and they seem to be quite happy roaming around in the snow in different types of weather and time of the day, including -3 degrees Celsius.

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In my own thread, I recommended removing the temperate tag from the Malayan tapir, since they are strictly tropical animals, but the photos show the situation is actually even worse. They should have their suitability limit increased to be the same as the Baird's tapir, as well as the temperate biome removed.

 

[Roxxsmom]

Good point.

Tropical animals added in the last few DLC's seem to be overusing the temperate biome. Malayan tapir is another example. The only two animals that have a proper temperate zone distribution in the last DLC are the clouded leopard and dhole. I also understand to an extent the sun bear and binturong, but the Malayan tapir is way off. It should have its temperate biome tag removed.

Same with the caiman like you pointed out. A strictly equatorial species. Honestly, the only reason they have the temperature issues you mentioned is because they are trying to make it compatible with the temperate map in the game. If the temperate biome is removed from their filters, all the temperature related things can also be fixed easily.

The Japanese macaque is another animal that uses extreme values for its temperature range. It shouldn't have a lower limit than bears, wolves, bison, pronghorn, camel or red pandas. It seems these two animals, caiman and macaque, use a completely different method for their temperature ranges than all the other animals in the game.

Indeed, and I remember reading an article some years ago about the Japanese macaques that lived in Jigokudani Monkey Park actually used hot springs to stay warm in the winter. Evidently it also reduces stress. The little guys/gals spent a large amount of time sitting in the water, like Aspen snowbirds in their hot tubs! It would be fun to see that behavior dynamic added to the game, now that we have water heaters.

The OP makes a very good point. Though I don't know about Cuvier Dwarf Caimen in particular, I studied lizards in grad school, and reptiles often have a narrower range of active temperatures than people suppose. Temperate reptiles will often bask and move between warmer and cooler microclimates to keep their temperature in a narrow range. When they can't do this, they seek shelter and become inactive. The colder temperatures they tolerate correspond with their inactive periods.

Tropical species would be adapted to milder day/night and seasonal temperature fluctuations, so they wouldn't be as likely to engage in active basking and shuttling between sun and shade etc. They certainly wouldn't be active or happy at 6-7 degrees C. Repeated exposures to these kinds of temperatures would be very stressful and lead to illness at the very least.

 

[DrBurrito]

Indeed, and I remember reading an article some years ago about the Japanese macaques that lived in Jigokudani Monkey Park actually used hot springs to stay warm in the winter. Evidently it also reduces stress. The little guys/gals spent a large amount of time sitting in the water, like Aspen snowbirds in their hot tubs! It would be fun to see that behavior dynamic added to the game, now that we have water heaters.

This is something I've always wanted to see in the game, let it be an enrichment item or mechanic. Like you've also pointed out, despite being much better adapted to the cold than most primates, they are still primates and therefore not as tolerant to frigid conditions as true boreal animals. In terms of game mechanics, they are a species that barely makes it into the 'Taiga' category and are not true taiga or even temperate/montane coniferous forest animals, as they seem to avoid parts of their range during winter months. Across their range, harsh winters are inevitable, and Japanese macaques tend to spend winter months at lower elevations. Although they have been spotted at elevations as high as 3180 m, during winter months they usually do not exceed elevations of 1800 m. (Fooden and Aimi, 2005; Gron, 2007).

What worries me the most is, this is a game that stresses the importance of guest education, so people, especially kids, take the information in the game quite seriously. Kids playing the game might be mislead into thinking they can expose their pet caiman to extreme temperatures.

As for the caiman, I believe this section of the original post is the most crucial part. Since the game's primary message is animal welfare and conservation, accuracy issues such as these become more sensitive.

 

[MissySanchez]

Regarding the original post, I must say the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman should have its 'Temperate' tag removed, as it causes more problems than it does good, like the OP has suggested. Plus it isn't an animal that hails in from temperate regions. Same thing applies to the Colombian White-Faced Capuchin, as I fear they will also have their temperature suitability limit lowered in the next patch, to make them "Temperate biome map compatible". I strongly advise against this change, as primates (other than a few exceptions), should never be exposed to cold temperatures in captivity, without access to indoor/heated areas. Capuchins are a strictly tropical species and it is best to have the 'Temperate' tag removed. Perhaps this was an error to begin with, as seen in the past with some other animals like the Aldabra Giant Tortoise and Lesser Antillean Iguana (having the 'Temperate' tag instead of 'Tropical') and the Sun Bear's current education board tag ('Aquatic'). My guess is, the intended secondary biome was 'Grasslands' for the Capuchin, which ended up being 'Temperate' by mistake, as the IUCN categorizes moist savannas as "Suitable" for this species:

It wouldn't make any sense at all to have cold loving capuchin monkeys when most African animals in the game are unhappy at temperatures under 60 F... I never understood the deal with the inconsistent temperature stats for the animals... It seems base game animals are less tolerant of even mild temperatures, but DLC animals can survive anything. This should definitely be looked into. Most zoos expose their elephants and tigers to much colder weather than primates and reptiles. I hope the caiman's values get fixed. Same with the capuchin monkey... I hope they don't have their temperature range altered.

Perhaps it is best to remove the temperate biome from the capuchin monkeys. Never understood why they were happy with maple trees and whatnot... Although I would love to be able to add some of their native plants like the yellow ipê, which now we can't. Swapping grasslands with temperate would be the best solution for both appropriate foliage and temperatures. The future of the capuchin monkey scares me. I hope they don't get the "caiman fix"

 

[Ursidae]

Although I would love to be able to add some of their native plants like the yellow ipê, which now we can't.

We can actually place the Yellow Ipe in their habitats, but I get your point. Trees like the Ombu Tree cannot be used for example. The issue with Yellow Ipe is actually pretty strange, as they are an open savannah tree, not a rainforest tree, so they should have had the Grasslands category instead of Tropical.

 

[ReptoMin]

I would like to bump up my own thread in hopes of increasing its chances at getting noticed by the new community managers. At the time of its conception, the community management team was going through some changes, so figured this thread might have gone unnoticed.

As someone from the industry, I care a lot about this issue, as the current temperature and biome requirements for the Cuvier's dwarf caiman in the game causes a lot of misinformation around the proper husbandry of this animal and might be misleading for the general crowd, which might have further real life implications for real animals, as this is also a species that is relatively common in the pet trade.

I would like to add that the following thread basically talks about the exact same issue, but has a wider scope, as mine is solely on the caiman:

Excessive use of the Temperate Biome in the latest two DLC Packs

I do appreciate Frontier's incentive to include as many suitable biomes as possible to the new animals they add in contrast to the very limiting biome suitability options we have for the base game animals, but some choices lately have been really out of place. I am talking about the Colombian...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[sympatrick]

Dwarf caimans are typically indoor exhibit animals that are kept in temperature regulated glass enclosures. At least every institution that I've been to has this approach towards small bodied crocodilians. Even large crocs are only kept outside seasonally in temperate regions. No zoo is going to keep their dwarf caimans or crocs outside in single digit temperatures. As you've mentioned, this can be very misleading to some players, considering this game also has an educational value. The easiest fix to this problem is restoring the old temperature limit (lower end) and removing the temperate biome tag. These two adjustments will address everything you've mentioned in the original post.

Also thank you for linking my thread here, as the same problem exists for several other tropical animals. I fear the capuchin is also going to receive the same treatment by having its temperature suitability range extended into the single digits, so that they can tolerate temperate biome weather conditions. Similarly, no zoo is going to keep capuchins or any other tropical primate outside when it is a bone chilling 5 degrees Celsius.

 

[macronecu]

This temperate biome issue that is being talked about in other threads is especially problematic for the caiman because of the weird temperature suitability they have for it. A tropical reptile being happy in 3 degrees all the time is so strange.

Even many cold loving animals in the game are not happy with such temperatures. I hope they address these inconsistent temperature ranges asap. And for this to happen they need to remove the temperate biome. So this issue isn't just about plant selections and decorations, it effects the game fully.

So many animals have inconsistent temperature requirements and they all link back to strange biome selections.

 

[Aotearoa]

The recent changes made to Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman's temperature suitability range prompted me to prepare this post. The lower limit even before the change bothered me for being too low, however, now that the figure has dropped to 6 Celsius, it is even more concerning.

A third animal that would apply here is the Malayan tapir. They are oddly cold tolerant in the game. The photos below are from a tundra map zoo and they seem to be quite happy roaming around in the snow in different types of weather and time of the day, including -3 degrees Celsius.

In my own thread, I recommended removing the temperate tag from the Malayan tapir, since they are strictly tropical animals, but the photos show the situation is actually even worse. They should have their suitability limit increased to be the same as the Baird's tapir, as well as the temperate biome removed.

This thread clearly shows that the biggest problem which comes with irrelevant biome tags is the odd temperature requirements. Since the two mechanics are interconnected, consistency in temperature suitability among different animals can never be achieved with the inclusion of irrelevant biome tags. While people tend to think biome tags are only for decoration, they actually also determine the temperature suitability ranges for each animal. In fact Frontier has made these changes to caiman temperature suitability only because they weren't able to cope with the very temperatures their suitable biomes had in the game. However, this change adds to the issue, let alone solve it, by making temperature requirements even more inconsistent in the game. Simply removing temperate tags from animals that shouldn't have cold weather suitability would eliminate the problem without adding new ones. Otherwise the inconsistent temperature requirements people have been complaining about since launch will never be solved.

 

[ReptoMin]

This temperate biome issue that is being talked about in other threads is especially problematic for the caiman because of the weird temperature suitability they have for it. A tropical reptile being happy in 3 degrees all the time is so strange.

Even many cold loving animals in the game are not happy with such temperatures. I hope they address these inconsistent temperature ranges asap. And for this to happen they need to remove the temperate biome. So this issue isn't just about plant selections and decorations, it effects the game fully.

So many animals have inconsistent temperature requirements and they all link back to strange biome selections.

This thread clearly shows that the biggest problem which comes with irrelevant biome tags is the odd temperature requirements. Since the two mechanics are interconnected, consistency in temperature suitability among different animals can never be achieved with the inclusion of irrelevant biome tags. While people tend to think biome tags are only for decoration, they actually also determine the temperature suitability ranges for each animal. In fact Frontier has made these changes to caiman temperature suitability only because they weren't able to cope with the very temperatures their suitable biomes had in the game. However, this change adds to the issue, let alone solve it, by making temperature requirements even more inconsistent in the game. Simply removing temperate tags from animals that shouldn't have cold weather suitability would eliminate the problem without adding new ones. Otherwise the inconsistent temperature requirements people have been complaining about since launch will never be solved.

Yes, my main point on this thread is exactly that. For some of the other animals with surplus temperate biome tags the matter is just about decorations, but with the Cuvier's dwarf caiman it also involves major temperature requirement issues. It will be two birds in one stone if they fix it for the caiman.

 

[-LUCA-]

Yes, my main point on this thread is exactly that. For some of the other animals with surplus temperate biome tags the matter is just about decorations, but with the Cuvier's dwarf caiman it also involves major temperature requirement issues. It will be two birds in one stone if they fix it for the caiman.

I agree. The temperature issue with the caiman is the strangest. It should be increased to the point where it is comparable to other crocodiles.

And to be able to do that, they'd probably have to remove the temperate tag. They also need to fix so many animals not being able to cope with temperatures of their own biomes.

 

[MissySanchez]

The temperature issue with the caiman is the strangest.

It is also misleading. My cousin has a pet dwarf caiman and I know it is the most common species of croc as a pet. It might encourage some people to keep them outside during winter.