The Thargs are no players tho, you can't grind down their morale. Against players in BGS you very much can.
We are winning, the tide has turned HIP 23716
- Thread starter He$$eeTant
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How are you getting that information? If you're using Inara, its stats don't reset weekly. You'll be looking at kills over the entire period.
Or they fixed issues/bugs causing actual progress not to count (last week).
Yes, number 3.. It's worse, if we don't win stations are destroyed and it will be even more work to restore the system..
Exactly the same as Thargoid War, from a practicality standpoint
If you lose 4 times
BGS War: Resets every day of the war
Thargoid War: Resets every week of the war
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And we can see our progress so can judge where we need to put more effort or where it will be useless.
Of course also assuming that we can win the war... I don't expect Frontier to have coded this war just for us to complete it in a few months time. It's another new permanent attraction in the ED amusement park...
The difference though, is that by fighting those 10CZs you forced the opponent to fight 11. There is no threshold, it's just whoever did more. This specific part of the BGS is similar in that it has binary win/loss outcomes for the duration, like PvP or chess. The overall context is still completely different, and your position in the system isn't reset to where you started if you lose a war.
As for the actual point of all this, I assume the intent of whoever started this argument (not yourself) was to say that if it's okay for BGSers, then it's okay here. That doesn't work for the reasons already said as well as the fact that these best-of-7 conflicts aren't the entire BGS. If they were, then maybe this point would have already come up for that, because yeah, binary outcomes do lead to "wasted" effort, and in that event it'd be cool to fix it for both the BGS and the Thargoid War. But it's a flawed argument, mechanically and contextually.
I think the biggest problem is the mechanics and that the lack of communicaton about it plus the everpresent bugs made it worse, but for sure, whichever way around we look at it it's a multifactor problem.
If you click the link you’ll see the break down by day….
Thinking about it I suspect a small tweak..
a strike will show these thargoids that we mean business, who’s with me….
Chess also has the efforts of the loser thrown away, reset at the end of the match. Is that therefore the exact same as the Thargoid War?
I basically responded to this in my other comment just now with more words, but both systems having binary win/loss outcomes somewhere in their design isn't all that matters. The downside of such a mechanic is that there is the potential for effort to be lost. BGS has it as a small component, on a smaller scale, in a competetive fight between two sides rather than a threshold, and also overall progress isn't reset when that component is done with. The Thargoid War is built around it and amplifies it.
Maybe a better TL;DR would be that the Thargoid War is (almost) like the BGS, if you deleted everything else about the BGS and just made it a continuous sequence of wars. But that's not the case, and if it was the case, that would also suck and have a lot of room for improvement.
Maybe your opponent did 20CZs actually wasting nearly half their effort.. No one knew how many were needed as there is no meter for the progress... Still it's not reset, by losing a week in the tharg war you find yourself in an even worse situation, not that this makes it any better!
To be honest I'm not sure whether to agree or disagree with the general outrage..
I was initially a bit miffed, but now that I know how it works the system itself seems fine, but the implementation and representation of it in game is still god awful, which I do have a problem with. They made a thread to explain how it works because they know the system map tooltip does not do what it is supposed to do, explain how it works. Do they do anything to clarify it in game though? Of course not.Maybe your opponent did 20CZs actually wasting nearly half their effort.. No one knew how many were needed as there is no meter for the progress... Still it's not reset, by losing a week in the tharg war you find yourself in an even worse situation, not that this makes it any better!
To be honest I'm not sure whether to agree or disagree with the general outrage..
Oh, I understand, but I was specifically limiting my comparison to BGS war vs Thargoid War, and nothing else BGS, on purpose because the rest of BGS is nothing like that...
The more I look at it, the more I think it's the granularity they settled on: one week.
You see, I can afford to lose a day's progress in a BGS war. Say something happens IRL, something that needs my immediate attention. I can just drop everything and I won't care about a few hours of work put in that war day. They can be deleted. It doesn't even have to be an extraordinary event, I might just feel like doing something else, like catching a carrier service for guardian mat refils, or even play a different game.
Now say the same thing happens in the second part of the week and I'm active in the Thargoid war. And that by pausing for the day, I stand to lose the effort of the entire week. That's no longer just a few hours, but many hours over the course of the previous days. That's why this is different than the BGS, and a worse mechanic. Losing those is painful.
You'd think that with an even larger time window, like having progress persistent over 7 weeks and not reset, the problem would exacerbate. But it doesn't really, because a larger time frame gives you more options to replan or recoup losses. Simply put, you have more time to catch up.
The week, it's a poor choice. Too short to give room to mistakes / distractions. Too long for its tracked effort to not matter.
You see, I can afford to lose a day's progress in a BGS war. Say something happens IRL, something that needs my immediate attention. I can just drop everything and I won't care about a few hours of work put in that war day. They can be deleted. It doesn't even have to be an extraordinary event, I might just feel like doing something else, like catching a carrier service for guardian mat refils, or even play a different game.
Now say the same thing happens in the second part of the week and I'm active in the Thargoid war. And that by pausing for the day, I stand to lose the effort of the entire week. That's no longer just a few hours, but many hours over the course of the previous days. That's why this is different than the BGS, and a worse mechanic. Losing those is painful.
You'd think that with an even larger time window, like having progress persistent over 7 weeks and not reset, the problem would exacerbate. But it doesn't really, because a larger time frame gives you more options to replan or recoup losses. Simply put, you have more time to catch up.
The week, it's a poor choice. Too short to give room to mistakes / distractions. Too long for its tracked effort to not matter.
I agree overall. When this first started, I sort of assumed that there might be some sort of reset or penalty if a system wasn't saved by the time the big INFESTATION IN X WEEKS timer went by. That would make sense, it's moving to the next phase because we'd have failed to prevent it doing that, maybe there's some benefit from prior resistance but generally it's now a different fight to push it back from complete Thargoid control. In the end, there does have to be a cutoff somewhere, but hopefully based around the big changes and phases of the war in the system?
Instead, it resets every week, with no big changes other than some stations progressing to the next level of damage, if there were even any left to do so. It's arbitrary and far too small next to the scale of the response needed. Part of me wonders if it's some technical hurdle they faced and made into a feature. It probably sounds fine to a designer who can't playtest it, rather than a player who has by the time of finding out.
Well, it's a dev vs player thing, and either they can just make the bubble burn, or make the challenge fun.
Now "fun" is a very subjective, hard to define the word.
They have the data, we don't, let it be hobby players or fulltime pilots.
Making player's dedication towards the game into nothing, is disrespecting players, but then they're devs, they can do whatever they want.
For the first few weeks it'll be the testing stage of getting the correct numbers of participants, then they can correctly mark where the challenge is at.
Is it the first time devs has drawn a line that's literally impossible to complete? Or the first time devs handing you what you want and go "BAM! It's gone!"?
No, and there ain't much we can do, their game.
Those who say thargoids are no challenge, it's not about being able to solo whatever interceptors you can, it's about the numbers and time you dedicated.
Or shipping those refugees that goes by 1~4 per mission, and you have to accept -> load them up -> exit UI -> exit UI -> go back to mission -> loop, idiotic UX.
Or shipping goods that you get hyperdicted almost all the time in and out the systems.
There are way more people participating than just the "experts", lots returned to ED after the update, just for the ED humanity.
Inara doesn't show all the stats, I tried manually uploading my data, but then it just sticks to 0, sure there are lots of others having the same issue.
Though I've killed quite a bit of thargoids, I still think I'd rather wait for a gimballed AX weapon, as I fly with a Thrustmaster TCA A320, it's just not made for precision air combats.
Now "fun" is a very subjective, hard to define the word.
They have the data, we don't, let it be hobby players or fulltime pilots.
Making player's dedication towards the game into nothing, is disrespecting players, but then they're devs, they can do whatever they want.
For the first few weeks it'll be the testing stage of getting the correct numbers of participants, then they can correctly mark where the challenge is at.
Is it the first time devs has drawn a line that's literally impossible to complete? Or the first time devs handing you what you want and go "BAM! It's gone!"?
No, and there ain't much we can do, their game.
Those who say thargoids are no challenge, it's not about being able to solo whatever interceptors you can, it's about the numbers and time you dedicated.
Or shipping those refugees that goes by 1~4 per mission, and you have to accept -> load them up -> exit UI -> exit UI -> go back to mission -> loop, idiotic UX.
Or shipping goods that you get hyperdicted almost all the time in and out the systems.
There are way more people participating than just the "experts", lots returned to ED after the update, just for the ED humanity.
Inara doesn't show all the stats, I tried manually uploading my data, but then it just sticks to 0, sure there are lots of others having the same issue.
Though I've killed quite a bit of thargoids, I still think I'd rather wait for a gimballed AX weapon, as I fly with a Thrustmaster TCA A320, it's just not made for precision air combats.
Ah, cool to see there is a daily breakdown, I wasn't aware of that. We'll see how this week and future weeks go, but that does seem to suggest a tweak has occured. We certainly haven't increased our force, anyway.
Given the 7th (tick day) is not easy to split (before and after tick) then best to compare 8th with any day previous - so less kills, less rescues and less players involved since the reset - will have to see how that progresses across the week ahead.
All days are the same for a counter, that said I will be interested to see the numbers tomorrow.
I also think that Inara requires a subscription of some sort, not sure if every Cmdr is tracked.