The Thargoid War: System States Clarifications

o7 Cmdrs

First post, wanted to vent and offer my $.02 as a less established player.

Words cannot express the amount of frustration and embarrassment I have recently felt while playing this game. For both myself and the devs. This was Frontier's chance to redeem themselves after the Odyssey debacle. And it would have worked too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids! People were grooving and enjoying themselves! Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! I personally had my most enjoyable experience in game so far.. and it was produced from the simple fact of being in an instance with about 7-8 other cmdrs all happily communicating and shooting space bugs together without much lag. In fact I remember making a comment in that instance saying, "Now this is the Elite I've been wanting to play". It took much gnashing of teeth, heavy sighs, raised eyebrows and what moments to get there though. Before I address the most egregious thing folks are up in arms about, the reset, lemme list my grievances encountered prior to that.

1) Bugged instances. Obviously one of the first things noticed by many on day one of update 14. No biggie I thought, they'll hotfix this or get it fixed soon. We had a patch a week later and it didn't get fixed. That's pretty bad. I understand it has been acknowledged but a fix was not made ready in time for Thursday's patch. This should have been one of the top priorities.

2) Instancing in general. I fully understand Elite utilizes peer to peer networking. Many other games do so successfully. But it just shouldn't be so darn difficult to join an instance with other players. When someone in system chat says they need help at x station or y conflict zone and I go there, it is totally hit or miss if I end up in the populated instance or create a new one. Why don't we have a dropdown selection box on the navigation panel or somewhere that allows us to choose which extant instance we wish to attempt to connect to? Baffling.

3) Wings. So I learned from chat it is apparently a known issue that inviting someone to a wing in game is also a hit or miss thing. Not only that but it has been an issue for so long the accepted workaround is to add someone as a friend through the social tab to make it easier to be invited. Just to party up in an online game. Wow.

4) Chat. It's not only bugged half the time but very obtuse. Having your chat panel randomly close as you're typing, or proof reading your message before hitting enter only to watch it magically disappear, or heaven forbid you make a typo and try to go back and fix it, doesn't seem to wanna let you do that much either. Worst chat experience I've encountered since the early days of online gaming. If Elite had a global chat server it'd be game changing imo.

5) Multi-crew. Have to mention this as well as I took update 14 as an opportunity to get some friends to try Elite. Didn't go over so well when one friend learned that flying an SLF in an instance with other players usually makes for a lagfest. That was the straw that broke the camel's back on top of everything else for my friend, he then called it quits as he simply wasn't having any fun. You know it's bad when you end up feeling embarrassed having shared a game you like with friends.

6) Reset. There's 20+ years of online gaming history now that shows what can happen to a game and its reputation when the devs screw over the players in some way. All I'll say here is that the main problem for me is simply the fact they didn't communicate the mechanics of their system. If they did from the start this whole uproar would have been avoided, and I feel people would have been more understanding of the way the invasion would possibly pan out over time. I get the feeling from fdev's history that they want to be like a D&D Dungeon Master, in the sense that they want to play God and keep secret the mechanics of everything or leave other elements of gameplay for the player to discover.. but that doesn't always guarantee the experience intended. For example I'm sure many would agree that while a DM dead set on killing you and your party can sometimes be fun it can also devolve into a frustrating and abusive experience devoid of anything remotely related to something that could be called fun. I feel many folks are correct to point out the reset felt like a direct troll to the player base, because the alternative means the devs are just inept or unable to perceive their own game through the eyes of the player.

Whew sorry for the wall of text. Got into a bit of a general review there as well but hey, a friend just tried the game after I hyped up this alien invasion and he legit said "lol dude this game is broken". Ouch.

TLDR; I'm happy overall with Elite Dangerous and update 14, just disappointed in the delivery. Back to chasing after that multiplayer experience in the most un-multiplayer friendly online multiplayer game I've ever come across o7
 
...Let's remember that Bruce is not the decision maker when it comes to the design of things that happen in game...
Just saying'
Hence my question: Who is? Honestly, this game could do and be so much more but whom ever is making the decisions doesn't have enough imagination.
For instance you could turn this game into a service, Charge 5$ a month, put the game on actual AWS Amazon Servers, ditch the peer to peer dysfunctional crap and move to licensing on Unreal Engine. This opens up the opportunities for hiring as Every One has worked on UE and is literally the best engine and the easiest to work on. Not to mention Unreal Engine Looks frickin amazing! have you seen 5.4?
 
Last edited:
Hence my question: Who is? Honestly, this game could do and be so much more but whom ever is making the decisions doesn't have enough imagination.
For instance you could turn this game into a service, Charge 5$ a month, put the game on actual AWS Amazon Servers, ditch the peer to peer dysfunctional crap and move to licensing on Unreal Engine. This opens up the opportunities for hiring as Every One has worked on UE and is literally the best engine and the easiest to work on. Not to mention Unreal Engine Looks frickin amazing! have you seen 5.4?
Blasphemy! Report for termination, citizen. :)
 
o7 Cmdrs

First post, wanted to vent and offer my $.02 as a less established player. ...
Absolutely hear ya, thanks for sharing.
Over the years I've slowly grown a long list of "heavy sigh" grievances while also wanting to love the game.
Elite has such a fantastic game world, certainly among the most interesting and immersive space/sci-fi worlds I've seen, and so much potential and opportunity.
It sadly feels like the masters that hold the leash in FDev (the investors and company management) are more interested in a positive fiscal year report more than they are passionate about taking risks, improving and fixing, and cultivating Elite Dangerous into a magnificent masterpiece that it could be.
 
simply the fact they didn't communicate the mechanics of their system
Ding, ding, ding. Give this Commander a kewpie doll. The weekly system reset is bad, end of story. It is made SO MUCH WORSE by the failure to say that this was how it was going to work ahead of time. They knew this was coming, but some studio head explicitly told the community manager to not tell the players about it, and I guarantee they are gnashing their teeth here as they invariably would have told the team, repeatedly, that this was going to be the response they would get after the first reset happened.
 
Should an Immersive experience have a Progress bar for a War?
Why not, Real wars effectively do, just turn on any 24/7 news channel during a major event and there is the equivalent, whether it be a war map showing gains and losses, or an election results graphic.
Real Life has progress display of a sort, whether it be your bank balance, Mortgage statement, Job title, brat spawning headcount, Number of Birthdays, fuel gauge on your car (these days a really big progress bar). Why shouldn't the galaxy map?

Yeah, I'd like to have an overall War map like they have on the News, but in the absence of that, the progress bar is a reasonable substitute to represent who is gaining and who is losing. On a war map, the 'Ends' of the bar would be the country's borders prior to the conflict.

But none of that detracts from the fact that in Real life, Progress bars DO NOT RESET EVERY WEEK!
 
  1. No comment.
  2. Another form of reset.
  3. No comment.
  4. This would be nice, but within a short period the forums would be full of the usual requests for new stuff not fixes (again).
  5. The obvious answer to this that they built up that capability for the same reason humans have, they fight themselves. I know they are supposed to be alien and almost by definition incapable of being understood by us but there are limits.
5: Not obvious at all, it is evident they are a Hive Mind race. We can see that in action right here on our own Planet. Hive minds focus on external enemies, not internal ones, because in a hive mind, there are none. Just look at Wasps Vs Spiders.
 
They knew this was coming, but some studio head explicitly told the community manager to not tell the players about it, and I guarantee they are gnashing their teeth here as they invariably would have told the team, repeatedly, that this was going to be the response they would get after the first reset happened.
It's more likely it was just an oversight and not malicious. They just didn't think it would be an issue at all, focused their testing and feedback on other things (like the new interceptor) and assumed this would just work out.
 
This is the best doom post I've seen in a while.
Just pointing out the glaring Plot hole in the Thargoid Story. There's been no-one for them to fight for millennia, what is their motivation t have all that advanced weaponry? At this point, the Thargoid war is becoming worth of a Ryan George pitch meeting

Writer Guy: so the Thargoids decided they need to Strike back at humanity for their attack
Producer Guy: That seems like that would be fairly difficult for them to attack a civilization that's spread across the galaxy
Writer Guy: No, it'll be super easy, Barely an inconvenience...
Producer Guy: Oh Really?
 
And how do you know that there's been no one for them to fight in the last millennia?

One could also assume that they haven't forgotten the old weapon technology even if they haven't used them for a long time.
Yeah, maybe it was ineffective against the Guardians at their height, so they just put it in some self-storage lockers after they lost? Bit dusty but still good.
 
It's more likely it was just an oversight and not malicious. They just didn't think it would be an issue at all, focused their testing and feedback on other things (like the new interceptor) and assumed this would just work out.
Malicious? maybe not.
Incompetent? Certainly
Opaque? Definitely
It isn't like they haven't done this kind of crap before. They are horrible at Balance, constantly having to re-balance stuff. I've never seen a game like it. Every game I have ever purchased has had an appropriate balance from day one and not required constant re-balancing of the mechanic and difficulty.

Put simply, for an MMO, the method should be the opposite of what they do. If unsure of the difficulty level, start off on the easier side, if that proves too easy, the narrative can support it getting harder in order to rebalance - Cumulative losses, new tech developed, strategy improvements etc. But getting easier as part of a re-balance just breaks immersion. Thargoids aren't losing any technologies, Players don't magically grow.

Re-balancing inevitably makes it easier for one side and harder for the other, that's the point of the word Balance. However, one of those sides are NPCs who won't complain on the forums, and have no choice in whether they play or not, they also don't care about immersion. Frontier have always got the direction of re-balancing wrong, they make it too hard on the Player and then make it easier - Astro Bio for instance. (Oddly, it paid fairly well to start with, then they made it not worth the effort). Nice that it's improved, but the original state showed that they don't play test anything. It would be so easy to put a stop watch on a tester performing in-game actions repetitively for a couple of hours, for reward, then balancing that reward against other different actions that can be repeated for a couple of hours. That's simple initial balancing, and should not be something that takes over 18 months to work out after release. 70-80m Cr/hour is possible in Bounty hunting, Trade, Mining & Exploration, seems like that's a target figure for any game earning mechanic, why not balance them all that way to start with, then tighten the loopholes, make them harder to find and move them regularly
 
Maybe the thargoids were all misunderstood poets that lost the war to the Guardian AI and became automatons of the AI hive mind!
 
5: Not obvious at all, it is evident they are a Hive Mind race. We can see that in action right here on our own Planet. Hive minds focus on external enemies, not internal ones, because in a hive mind, there are none. Just look at Wasps Vs Spiders.
Maybe there are different species of Thargoids. Think of African Bees vs Honey Bees, they can and will fight each other.
 
Just pointing out the glaring Plot hole in the Thargoid Story. There's been no-one for them to fight for millennia, what is their motivation t have all that advanced weaponry?
I don't see any reason why a sufficiently advanced species such as theirs would just forget how to make weapons. Our own level of technology allows for information storage that can be digitally copied and passed down essentially forever, and the Thargoids are well beyond that. It's also doubtful that the Thargoids would believe that just because nobody else has been around for a while, there never will be another race that shows up and spots all the juicy meta-alloys in their territory.
 
Back
Top Bottom