The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[CMDR Cknarf]

This is pure Hotel C. now. How about those who want to evade gankers play in Open, those who don't want to play in PG or just block them, everyone give up trying to change others' choices? All sorted.

This is the true zen answer, and exactly how I feel about it all at the end of the day. The private modes, blocking, all of it are there for people to use, should they feel inclined. If anyone is giving you a hard time for using those, well, I guess they just get to be mad.

It’s when people suggest altering the mode I enjoy, that I might check back in to our favorite hotel. Same with engineering/skill arguments, or discussion about what is or is not possible in open. Spent waaaaay too much time building ships, killing(for science) and getting killed(A LOT, for science) for that lol.

 

[Tetra Trash]

I disagree. Engineered builds are extremely hard to kill. My latest toy is this Adder that I use for passenger missions around Shinrarta Dezhra. It has been interdicted many times but never significantly damaged, let alone destroyed. It also survives Thargoid interdictions with hardly a scratch. The total value of that ship is less than 7 million credits. Engineering makes all the difference here.

This may be an extreme example, but you can make almost any ship gank-resilient without compromising their main purpose. It's even easier with the larger ones. But you need to unlock a few engineers first, and that appears to be an insurmountable hurdle to some players.

Interesting. Out of curiosity have you been getting pulled 4V1 much with that build or is it mostly 1V1? No criticisms either way, just curious about the robustness vs. wing gank.

 

[terragrimtitan]

I am enjoying reading the differing comments from everyone. Open doesn't work for everyone and even many of the players in open would like to change some aspects of it. Why I wrote my article was to try and capture a broad range of perspectives so that a new pilot who decides to make the move from Solo/PG to Open knows what might happen and why. They can then make informed choices.

 

[terragrimtitan]

I made the move from Solo to Open and overall I've enjoyed it. The main thing I would like to do is influence play as much as possible to allow new players to Open to have time and space to develop. i.e. support them and influence other players to let them get oriented and find their own path

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Honestly, I wouldn’t be where I am today without other players helping to push me along in the early days. Many of those guys I met at random in CG systems, and they certainly weren’t all friendly. At least, in the sense of their in-game behavior. But for every question I had, they had answers.

That’s why I tend to do so much prodding when it comes to getting people on their feet and into the chaos of open, same with countless other seasoned players. You never know what you’ll get, and in my case, I’ve ended up with a lot of friends, and friendly rivals.

Now, it’s been a long time since I picked up a rookie to mentor, but I just don’t have time like I used to. Thankfully, whether it’s guys who I helped pull up from a Sidewinder, those who came up with me, or the ones who have been at it even longer, someone will be there for them when I can’t.

I get why people don’t want to mess with open sometimes, or ever, but there’s a whole different game out there that they might be missing out on. For me personally, the good outweighs the bad a thousand times over. I’ve been very fortunate.

 

[terragrimtitan]

Honestly, I wouldn’t be where I am today without other players helping to push me along in the early days. Many of those guys I met at random in CG systems, and they certainly weren’t all friendly. At least, in the sense of their in-game behavior. But for every question I had, they had answers.

That’s why I tend to do so much prodding when it comes to getting people on their feet and into the chaos of open, same with countless other seasoned players. You never know what you’ll get, and in my case, I’ve ended up with a lot of friends, and friendly rivals.

Now, it’s been a long time since I picked up a rookie to mentor, but I just don’t have time like I used to. Thankfully, whether it’s guys who I helped pull up from a Sidewinder, those who came up with me, or the ones who have been at it even longer, someone will be there for them when I can’t.

I get why people don’t want to mess with open sometimes, or ever, but there’s a whole different game out there that they might be missing out on. For me personally, the good outweighs the bad a thousand times over. I’ve been very fortunate.

I tend to agree with what you are saying. Open will always be a challenge, no one group will ever be entirely happy with it. There are a lot of players you will enjoy interacting with and some you won't.

Kudos to you CMDR for enjoying it and helping some others get something out of the game.

 

[Sakashiro]

Interesting. Out of curiosity have you been getting pulled 4V1 much with that build or is it mostly 1V1? No criticisms either way, just curious about the robustness vs. wing gank.

I've been pulled 3v1 in this one. 4v1 I don't remember. The build is fast enough to low-wake from typical FdL gank squads and Cutters. Couriers are more dangerous because they can keep up. Sometimes a high-wake is necessary, but not often. I put bi-weaves on all my evasion builds so they bounce back quickly in supercruise and handle chain interdictions better. The downside of the Adder is that you have to pack it with Guardian SRPs so there's not much room for other things. But a small economy class passenger cabin is enough to do typical personal transport missions which pay reasonably well and rarely involve more than one jump. So I take these missions from Jameson Memorial, and on the return trip I pass through ganker territory. It's fun. The only thing missing is the original Apex livery.

 

[SteveWW57]

but there’s a whole different game out there that they might be missing out on.

Yes, they do miss out on somethings:
Getting interdicted.
Getting blown up.
Rebuy.
Losing cargo/data.
Time wasted.
Getting told to build their ships to survive ganking and/or "git gud".
Having to play with a ship less suited for its intended mission.

And not forgetting the chance to meet and co-operate with like minded CMDRs. Which is about the only good thing.

Steve

 

[Sakashiro]

Having to play with a ship less suited for its intended mission.

Here's an alternative way to look at it:

Open is the actual game. Solo is a training simulation. If your ship can survive only in a simulated environment devoid of other players, is it suited for it's intended mission?

You're like an aviation engineer designing planes with no consideration for safety. They can reach their destination theoretically, under ideal and controlled conditions, but you wouldn't want to fly them in the real world.

Finding the perfect balance between performance and safety is the actual challenge of the game. Considering the cost of a rebuy is part of it. Running a profitable trade business with a T-9 is different from running one with a Cutter. The T-9 is weaker, but it's also cheaper to rebuy, so is the Cutter really better? It depends. Is your trade route safe or do you pass through enemy territory? How much shield and hull is enough? Do you have escort ships? In solo, none of this matters. Solo is a 100% predictable training environment. It's not the actual game.

Whether you're a trader, an explorer, an exobiologist, a mercenary or a combat pilot: if you're looking for a sense of achievement, nothing beats overcoming the odds in open, a space that you share with others.

 

[Brrokk]

Here's an alternative way to look at it:

Open is the actual game. Solo is a training simulation. If your ship can survive only in a simulated environment devoid of other players, is it suited for it's intended mission?

You're like an aviation engineer designing planes with no consideration for safety. They can reach their destination theoretically, under ideal and controlled conditions, but you wouldn't want to fly them in the real world.

Finding the perfect balance between performance and safety is the actual challenge of the game. Considering the cost of a rebuy is part of it. Running a profitable trade business with a T-9 is different from running one with a Cutter. The T-9 is weaker, but it's also cheaper to rebuy, so is the Cutter really better? It depends. Is your trade route safe or do you pass through enemy territory? How much shield and hull is enough? Do you have escort ships? In solo, none of this matters. Solo is a 100% predictable training environment. It's not the actual game.

Whether you're a trader, an explorer, an exobiologist, a mercenary or a combat pilot: if you're looking for a sense of achievement, nothing beats overcoming the odds in open, a space that you share with others.

You're free to look at it that way if you want to. Playing in Open would then be a natural choice. Other people are free to take a different view. Personally I want a space trading activity which seems realistic and immersive; people who shoot anything that moves or spam OOC chat break my immersion as it doesn't seem like proper space-pilot behaviour. Therefore I avoid playing with them, for instance at CGs.

Everyone needs to decide what game experience they want and use mode selection and/or block to get it. This has been the key takeaway right from the earliest days of this hotel.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

You're free to look at it that way if you want to. Playing in Open would then be a natural choice. Other people are free to take a different view. Personally I want a space trading activity which seems realistic and immersive; people who shoot anything that moves or spam OOC chat break my immersion as it doesn't seem like proper space-pilot behaviour. Therefore I avoid playing with them, for instance at CGs.

Everyone needs to decide what game experience they want and use mode selection and/or block to get it. This has been the key takeaway right from the earliest days of this hotel.

Yeah I have said this before but even existence of ganker types is kind of immersion breaking detail for me. That fact just screams on your face that it is just a game.
I mean any real societies would have hunted those kind of people down to the point where such behauviour would be very very marginal phenomenon. Kind of what would would happen to irl serial killers and such. Even criminal kind of organisations have low tolerance for such mavericks acting on their own. I mean do such things at some drug cartel's or mobsters turf and soon you have pretty rough people after you...

 

[Darrack]

If your ship can survive only in a simulated environment devoid of other players, is it suited for it's intended mission?

Actually in Solo mode my ships are far better suited to the task than one designed in Open as i can optimise the build without having to worry about the gankers.

O7

 

[SteveWW57]

Here's an alternative way to look at it:

Open is the actual game. Solo is a training simulation.

That might be one view of the modes, but I doubt that it is the view of the majority. In fact, I believe that many might take umbrage at being told that they are only playing the training version of the game and not the actual game. I believe that the game is solo, PG and open.

I believe that those that go around for no good valid game reason attacking others are just in the game for their own kicks obtained by spoiling the game play of others. I believe this could be classed as selfish, childish behaviour. One way of looking at it, is that open is a space for socialising, but one in which the children are running around screaming their lungs out and affecting the enjoyment of the adults sharing the space.

Also do not forget, that not everyone is a top player. The rest of us lesser mortals can only play and enjoy the game as best we can.

Steve (who admires your Adder antics)

 

[Sakashiro]

Yeah I have said this before but even existence of ganker types is kind of immersion breaking detail for me. That fact just screams on your face that it is just a game.
I mean any real societies would have hunted those kind of people down to the point where such behauviour would be very very marginal phenomenon. Kind of what would would happen to irl serial killers and such. Even criminal kind of organisations have low tolerance for such mavericks acting on their own. I mean do such things at some drug cartel's or mobsters turf and soon you have pretty rough people after you...

So why aren't you hunting them? The game shows you if a player has a bounty on their head in the current jurisdiction. The game also gives you a scanner to check for bounties issued by other jurisdictions. Each station has a list of wanted players and their last known location. If you think gankers should be hunted, there are your tools, go for it! Team up with others if necessary. Don't wait for society to do it for you.

And if you dislike combat, why aren't you protecting yourself? Again, the game gives you everything you need to shrug gankers off with a 100% success rate. You don't need to fight them if you can frustrate them instead.

However, if you refuse to play the game the way it was designed to be played, there's nothing FDev will do about it. You choose your own role in that galaxy, and the game intentionally allows you to play a criminal if that's what you want. If you insist on flying a cardboard ship and get blown up in it, you have no one to blame but yourself. The only thing that really breaks immersion is players complaining about gankers in system chat and throwing personal insults at them.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

So why aren't you hunting them? The game shows you if a player has a bounty on their head in the current jurisdiction. The game also gives you a scanner to check for bounties issued by other jurisdictions. Each station has a list of wanted players and their last known location. If you think gankers should be hunted, there are your tools, go for it! Team up with others if necessary. Don't wait for society to do it for you.

And if you dislike combat, why aren't you protecting yourself? Again, the game gives you everything you need to shrug gankers off with a 100% success rate. You don't need to fight them if you can frustrate them instead.

However, if you refuse to play the game the way it was designed to be played, there's nothing FDev will do about it. You choose your own role in that galaxy, and the game intentionally allows you to play a criminal if that's what you want. If you insist on flying a cardboard ship and get blown up in it, you have no one to blame but yourself. The only thing that really breaks immersion is players complaining about gankers in system chat and throwing personal insults at them.

I happen to have engineered Cutter as my mission runner. Protected enough to withstand most gank attempts. But I do still consider gank playstyle as immersion breaking. And would recommend major beefing up of NPC law enforcement.

 

[Brrokk]

So why aren't you hunting them? The game shows you if a player has a bounty on their head in the current jurisdiction. The game also gives you a scanner to check for bounties issued by other jurisdictions. Each station has a list of wanted players and their last known location. If you think gankers should be hunted, there are your tools, go for it! Team up with others if necessary. Don't wait for society to do it for you.

And if you dislike combat, why aren't you protecting yourself? Again, the game gives you everything you need to shrug gankers off with a 100% success rate. You don't need to fight them if you can frustrate them instead.

However, if you refuse to play the game the way it was designed to be played, there's nothing FDev will do about it. You choose your own role in that galaxy, and the game intentionally allows you to play a criminal if that's what you want. If you insist on flying a cardboard ship and get blown up in it, you have no one to blame but yourself. The only thing that really breaks immersion is players complaining about gankers in system chat and throwing personal insults at them.

Good grief, this is getting insulting. The game was designed to be played using any or all of the three modes according to player preference. The main menu is a bit of a clue here.

 

[Sakashiro]

I happen to have engineered Cutter as my mission runner. Protected enough to withstand most gank attempts. But I do still consider gank playstyle as immersion breaking. And would recommend major beefing up of NPC law enforcement.

I don't see what's immersion-breaking about ganking. Just take a look at what happens if you "gank" a clean NPC ship: It drops materials. That's a reward right there, an incentive to kill, if you are a criminal.

At that point it doesn't really matter if player ships drop the same kind of loot or none at all. In a perfectly immersive game, anything that can happen to NPCs can happen to you as well. In a perfectly immersive game, you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between NPCs and players.

In fact what is breaking the immersion here is the hollow square or triangle on the scanner. Imagine what the game would be like without hollow squares. The pirate you attack in that hazRES turns out to be a player with an engineered ship. Oops! Now that would be immersive, wouldn't it?

 

[Sakashiro]

Good grief, this is getting insulting. The game was designed to be played using any or all of the three modes according to player preference. The main menu is a bit of a clue here.

Sure, but there are some players who want open to be as safe as solo, preferably by punishing gankers for their play style. I disagree with that. Sorry if you find that insulting.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I don't see what's immersion-breaking about ganking. Just take a look at what happens if you "gank" a clean NPC ship: It drops materials. That's a reward right there, an incentive to kill, if you are a criminal.

At that point it doesn't really matter if player ships drop the same kind of loot or none at all. In a perfectly immersive game, anything that can happen to NPCs can happen to you as well. In a perfectly immersive game, you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between NPCs and players.

In fact what is breaking the immersion here is the hollow square or triangle on the scanner. Imagine what the game would be like without hollow squares. The pirate you attack in that hazRES turns out to be a player with an engineered ship. Oops! Now that would be immersive, wouldn't it?

Simple existence of the fortheLulz types roleplaying as murderpsychos is breaking the immersion. Maybe you don't get it, but for me it is giant sized fly in ointment. Main reason I block them out of my view.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Unless you block them, or go into other modes its stupid to argue 'its wasting your time' when Open is about you v them.

Whilst that may be your opinion it's demonstrably false as seen daily in the invasion systems where AX groups form up apparently ad hoc to hunt bugs and haulers wing up to take the Emergency Bulk Orders.