Exobiology Payouts

Credits have been mostly meaningless for a long time now, and there have been other activities that have earned money even faster.
Sorry, but I never agree with "credits are broken, so we have to break any activity".
50m reward for completing ship CZ when? :D

But I agree with you. First log bonus could be even higher, but base payouts are simply too high.

And , frontier, pls rebalance things like tectonicas.

Current payouts are such high, that even 10% of current payouts+ 10x for first logs (and maybe even more for first sample in whole galaxy region?) could be good. Especially if we compare risk and required investment.
 
Sorry, but I never agree with "credits are broken, so we have to break any activity".
50m reward for completing ship CZ when? :D

But I agree with you. First log bonus could be even higher, but base payouts are simply too high.

And , frontier, pls rebalance things like tectonicas.

Current payouts are such high, that even 10% of current payouts+ 10x for first logs (and maybe even more for first sample in whole galaxy region?) could be good. Especially if we compare risk and required investment.

As a combat pilot you can stack massacre missions and then use wing exploits to increase the payout even more. You also get engineering material which is arguably much more valuable than Credits. Only if FDev removes/reduces those benefits for combat pilots, we can talk about further nerfs against exploration players 🤷‍♂️
 
Sorry, but I never agree with "credits are broken, so we have to break any activity".
That's cool, and also, I didn't say that.

That said, is exobiology really broken for undiscovered stuff? I did say that it's the highest earner for new players, with next to no investment required, but outside of that, I'm not at all convinced that it's broken for everyone. (Well, unless you count most every other activity as broken too, of course.) I'd like to see some data on this, and since I don't remember any, I guess I'll just have to make my own and record how much I can get. Thankfully, I'm deep in the galaxy in a speedy Courier, so perfectly set up for this.

As for first finding species and such, to you and @RetroPaladin : sorry, but that ship has sailed quite soon after the Odyssey launch. It didn't take long to find every species, all that was left after that were the variants. By today, the only thing left is to find some colours that haven't been logged in specific regions yet.
 
That said, is exobiology really broken for undiscovered stuff?
In my opinion? Yes.
Because I look at MORE factors, not only time/credits, like majority of community.
But don't get me wrong. x5 boost isn't broken. I really like idea of significant bonus for DISCOVERIES. Not re-scanning of plant scanned by 100 other players in 76 Leonis system ;)
Truth is simple, even x1,01 bonus is broken, if base payout could start at let's say 50m

But generally- yes, majority of gameloops are broken. If the most expensive ships require 1b credits, and mobile base for whole fleet (and multiple players) require 5b gameloops "hundreds millions in hour" are broken.
As a combat pilot you can stack massacre missions and then use wing exploits to increase the payout even more. You also get engineering material which is arguably much more valuable than Credits. Only if FDev removes/reduces those benefits for combat pilots, we can talk about further nerfs against exploration players 🤷‍♂️
Cool.
Now compare, what you need to do it in effective way vs suit for 100k, and ship with fsd, because first logs are everywhere, even in bubble :)
(before you will start- I tried both activities, and exploration took more than half of my playtime, and I actually have few first logs in bubble)
Sorry, but 1 thing require suit, and FSD.
Another require good ship, special modules, engineering, knowledge, and changing knowledge to skill by...practice. You know, you can read guide "how to kill X". But from reading to doing it way is...well, long ;)
And after it I see "combat to good, exobiology weak"
I'm glad, that you said something about wing exploits. Wing missions payouts should be based on your real contribution, what could kill "invited me after completing mission, 40m for nothing", if we talked about wing exploits.

And now, I have challenge for all "hardcore" explorers, which think, that "combat is ridiculously high, exobiology isn't broken, and I have only 50/100h in hour without any requirements and risk"
Kill hydra, alone. Since you love add to cr/h ratio everything, feel free to add to this ratio time of your all previous fails.
Meanwhile I will scann plants on 7 signal moons which I found. Who know, maybe after 250 planets I will understand, what's difficult is in exobiology ;)

Oh, when you will kill hydra in your "easy, op, completely predictable combat" pls, send me video on DM, because I'm not gonna read anything more from people, which think, that any activity should pay identical amounts of money (totally not broken, because other things pay more, what's a logic :D ).

This is thing, which I love in elite community- people which do only one thing, so they always think, that "their" thing is bad and weak, and other things are only about exploits. Of course it is usually without any experience on other fields, but shhh, it is secret.

PS: even mining require more, than exploration, said by player which do mainly it.
 
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I'm getting 300M for about 6 hours' work, by the time I've eventually found the systems it doesn't pay more than just mining. Meanwhile AX combat is paying ridiculously high.

It's about right at the moment, basically I can get around 4.5m for mapping a new previously undiscovered ELW, that's a few minutes work. For a bio reward, I get 5m for a previously unexplored world with bacteria, that's too low to bother doing considering I have to fly there, map, land and gather 3 samples, that's far longer than the next highest paying exploration reward of mapping undiscovered ELW so I leave them. I am skipping most bio except for bio not in my codex. So rewards for flying to, mapping, landing, getting 3 samples has to be worth doing for the time taken. I would do it for a 7m base payout plus first discover bonus, but not for 7m without a first discovery bonus. The extremely high paying bodies with lots of high value bio are the extreme reward, like finding a system with multiple ELW, WW and Ammonia worlds, but it still takes far longer to do the bio so the rewards need to be higher.
 
The extremely high paying bodies with lots of high value bio are the extreme reward, like finding a system with multiple ELW, WW and Ammonia worlds, but it still takes far longer to do the bio so the rewards need to be higher.
I agree. I got 900M for one system of undiscovered bio, rich worlds with lots of variety, but the system took me 3 evenings to get all the samples. That was about 18 hours' work in all.
 
I am skipping most bio except for bio not in my codex.

While it's not really about the credits as I have more than enough already, I still want to see my rank progress back up to at least Elite. I am (was) Elite I after cashing in the few samples that started this thread but not sure how far back I slipped, so I'd like to see the bar progress again.

Prior to the update I was pretty selective about bio scanning and now I am again. A body needs to have quite a few signals (unless it's oxygen or nitrogen in which case I'll go for a single signal) for me to even bother scanning it, typically a minimum of four, and once I do scan a body I'm selective about which bio types I look for to scan, simply because the gameplay isn't really that great for the time / effort so once I've determined what's there I'll just look for the more valuable things to find and scan. And if they don't show up pretty quickly, which usually they do, I'll just move on.

That said, it's also about variety, so I'm not against hopping into my SRV if I find an area with multiple bio types and then I'll just spend a bit of time driving back and forth scanning everything.
 
I agree. I got 900M for one system of undiscovered bio, rich worlds with lots of variety, but the system took me 3 evenings to get all the samples. That was about 18 hours' work in all.

I got 1.5b for around 8 hours work, 4 identical small moons with lots of grouped bio, 5 types in one area and 4 in the other, easily distinct geologic areas, once I determined that the layout and pattern was the same for each body it went quite fast, would have been quicker if I could take multiple samples, I only had to move the ship a couple of times to get the Osseus, they took me longest of all the bio's.
 
Next step should be raising prices of ships, modules, goods, combat vouchers and rebuy amounts to justify billions of easy credits and revive combat, trading and mining.
 
Next step should be raising prices of ships, modules, goods, combat vouchers and rebuy amounts to justify billions of easy credits and revive combat, trading and mining.

Someone tell him he's dreaming, this just brings exploration into line with other money earners!
 
into line with other money earners
lol, so combat in A graded ship with 5 nuts engineering (which required a lot of hours to collect materials) to earn a humble million of creds for a pirate's head is in line with zero-effort exobilogy extreme payouts?
Explain, why Sidewinder is cheaper than a single handgun or a suit? Isn't this because of balance lacking? Biopayouts are the next step of this.
...Someone tell her she's dreaming.
 
lol, so combat in A graded ship with 5 nuts engineering (which required a lot of hours to collect materials) to earn a humble million of creds for a pirate's head is in line with zero-effort exobilogy extreme payouts?
Explain, why Sidewinder is cheaper than a single handgun or a suit? Isn't this because of balance lacking? Biopayouts are the next step of this.
...Someone tell her she's dreaming.

Previous to the new exobiology payout my largest payout from exploration was 1.3b, that took 3 months of round the galaxy travel, can you point to another profession that takes 3 months to earn 1.3b. For instance using my FC I can earn 200m an hour trading, so in 7 hours I can have the same payout as 3 months exploration.

Explain, why Sidewinder is cheaper than a single handgun or a suit? Isn't this because of balance lacking? Biopayouts are the next step of this.

That's irrelevant really to exploration being brought to the same earning potential as other profession, but lets see, because you can't use a sidewinder to fight your way into a base to turn off the power, just as you can't use a handgun to take out a pirate captain in space, two different arena's entirely and two different earning and purchase paths. The price of a Sidewinder was set when earning potential was minuscule compared to today's earning potential and the price hasn't been increased since then. If the price of the Sidewinder had been increased in the same ratio it would be probably cost python prices now and Conda's would be out of reach of all but the wealthiest players.

Someone tell him he's dreaming please!
 
Yes, you spent a lot of words to describe the situation of balance. And you say "please more!"

Exobiology is broken, easy. It's not dangerous, require zero efforts and fast, but reward with lot of creds.
Previously, a couple of millions for 3-4 species was in line with trading, mining, combat or exploration (within Bubble). And it require just 5-10 minutes. (Hint - you don't need to spend hours to hunt these little fungis in mountains)
The only problem was that the most of species were too cheap.
If payments are multiplied by 2, first record bonus counts in rank progression, and rank tresholds are untouched - exobiology could be well balanced nice companion for exploration.
took 3 months
In exploration, spent time is a substitute of different efforts used for other professions.
you can't use a sidewinder to fight your way into a base
I can like most, and mostly there's no need to fight.
you can't use a handgun to take out a pirate captain in space
You can't use your pistol to sink a navy ship, but both of them costs differently in the same currency.
And your pistol can't be more expensive than ship, for obvious reasons. Same for handgun and Sidewinder.
Technically, you can shot the pirate's ship with your handgun, so it's not impossible.
two different earning and purchase paths
Then, there should be two different currencies of different value. Horizon pounds and Odyssey pennies, for example.
Oh and two different games, why not.
Current credit has a wide range of value because of imbalance.

If we want to play in a wholesome game, we shouldn't separate one from other.
 
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lol, so combat in A graded ship with 5 nuts engineering (which required a lot of hours to collect materials) to earn a humble million of creds for a pirate's head is in line with zero-effort exobilogy extreme payouts?
Zero effort? It takes hours to find prime planets for first discoveries. You can find pirates in seconds.
 
Zero effort? It takes hours to find prime planets for first discoveries. You can find pirates in seconds.
If you added "hours" of jumping to "find good undiscovered system" you should add engineers, unlocks, learning game mechanics and tons other things to "find and kill pirate in seconds".
This is completely different story, that your "hours" are valid only if you go to deep space, find 1 planet, and after it return to bubble. Because when you hit undiscovered area practically 100% of next jumps are pristine systems.

In last week I was in centre for 6 days. During this 6 days I scanned plants on 18 planets, what yielded me...I think that 800 millions. I don't know, how many hours it required, but I know, that single evening, when I pursed exobiology I milked 500 millions (and it definetely wasn't more than 4 hours :D ). Next day I found planet with biosignatures for next 100 millions. I scanned it for 1 hour (reading logs with EDD is handy).
Good? Bad? It depends. If I could compare it with refuelling carriers of other people, "mining" missions, wing massacres or AX combat it probably would be weak. But for me isn't, because for me time/profit is too simplistic (and some things in my eyes are simply exploits, so I'm not gonna compare anything with "mining" missions, where I can actually buy 200 gold and claim 50m reward (and share it with other people). When you look at only at time and payouts I look at other factors. Knowledge? "turn off certain star types", uh, and that's everything, if we are talking about exploration "for money" (what in my opinnion even isn't exploration, it is just scanning). Ok, you need more knowledge if you are doing detailed surveys of area in order to find X, or correlation between Y and Z. But again- it isn't about money, it is about imaginations of players. "only landable, ringed planet with X type atmo" hasn't magic boost x1000. You don't boost your income by finding it. Skill? Okay, I can scoop without hitting exclusion zone, and I know how to use neutrons. So maybe required things? Nah. Basic suit is enough. Ship with fsd, scoop and AFMU is also enough. Hmm, so maybe time and effort which I have to put into engineering grind? Sure, increasing jump from 40 to 80 is handy if you want to travel to certain area ASAP, or go to sectors, where you need it to navigate. But if we are talking about exobiology- first logs srsly are very close to bubble.

To be completely fair- exploration is this gameloop, which shouldn't be compared with other things for whole time. It isn't guaranteed, steedy income. Is is darkness, unexpected spark, darkness, spark (maybe few in a row). You cannot balance it to be "with similar profits" with other things, because we all explore in different ways. Also, exploration is, IMO one of the biggest RNG in game. You can find 5 earthlikes in day, or 0 in 2 weeks.

Which exploration should be similar to all other, buffed activites?
-Realistic galaxy map or map with only A/F stars?
- FSS scan of all bodies+ DSS of valuable bodies?
-FSS+ DSS of only valuable bodies?
-FSS of only valuable bodies?

Exobiology with ignoring bacterias, or without?
Exobiology in "completionist" (I will scan everything, even if I need 1h to find last sample) style? Or more pragmatic "I will sit here for 20 minutes, and we will see what I will find".
With 3rd party tools, or without?
See? This exploration variants can already make giant difference, if you will buff one of them other can be still "weak" (in opinion of "explorers" which focus on meaningless credits), or broken

I started my exploration adventures 2 weeks after buying this game. Since this day I travelled 1,8m ly, visited all "real" nebulas. Discovered thousands new systems, bookmarked a lot of them (yes, I have sheet with details of interesting systems which I visited :D ), shared them with friends (I even organised few, small expeditions with few of them.), and did hundreds screens. Idk what with you, but for me it was main reason to explore new stars.
Also, sorry for my ignorance, but during all my trips I never thought "uhh, exploration should be buffed, not enough money", because actually I tried all possible activities in this game. So as much as I like exploration- it doesn't require much skill, is nearly riskless, and for crushing majority of time isn't challenging (but navigation in some areas certainly can provide some fun). And I always thought, that more difficult things should pay better. Payouts shouldnt be equal, because activities in game are various. From scanning stars in completely safe area, through tradeloops, when at least sometimes you will encounter pirates (difficulty level of npc interdictions are another topic, but not this time) to combat. To combat, which require the best ships, boosted by engineering, which require special weapons, module sniping, and "unique" tactics, which aren't part of combat experience as long as you don't try AX. If you want to kill pirate you just shoot untill 0%. With thargoids it not working. Sure, this combat has some patterns, but learning this patterns, and repeating them in PRACTICE is much more difficult :)

If you are doing it for money just go kills pirates, or even better thargoids- it is only few seconds of searching for hundreds millions! Such easy, why don't do it ;)
 
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Previous to the new exobiology payout my largest payout from exploration was 1.3b, that took 3 months of round the galaxy travel, can you point to another profession that takes 3 months to earn 1.3b. For instance using my FC I can earn 200m an hour trading, so in 7 hours I can have the same payout as 3 months exploration.
Well, I do get your point. But you're comparing real time with in game time. 3 months of exploring surely doesn't refers to about 2200 hours of playing.
I did sell all my data less than a month ago and I'm already at 1.2 billion credits worth of data (and about 550 millions of biology data without FD bonus), but that surely doesn't mean that I'm three times more effective at exploring than you are - we surely don't play the same amount of hours each month.
 
Well, I do get your point. But you're comparing real time with in game time. 3 months of exploring surely doesn't refers to about 2200 hours of playing.
I did sell all my data less than a month ago and I'm already at 1.2 billion credits worth of data (and about 550 millions of biology data without FD bonus), but that surely doesn't mean that I'm three times more effective at exploring than you are - we surely don't play the same amount of hours each month.

You're quite right, I didn't count downtime in that 6-8 hours of gathering bio data, I'll correct that.....lets say 2 days although it wasn't quite that long. Now my point with that example is this, I haven't gathered a single bio data since doing that because most if it hasn't been worth bothering with, so once you start spreading that extreme case across the total of exploration time spent gathering data you are really only bringing exploration in line to other activities. In total since the new rewards have come out I have probably got a little over 2.5b in rewards for bio, and about 300m in rewards for other exploration activity.
 
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