Why I am miffed at Frontier Development for the „Second Thargoid war“ - with suggestions to improve

[Anantyanta]

Ana’s puppeteer - The 2nd Thargoid war
Thoughts of an Elite Dangerous player on how this storyline has been reached and how is being executed

First off, I appreciate that this game is Frontier’s property, and they can do with it what they want.

As a player of Elite Dangerous, I think I also have the freedom for stating why I am miffed with what they do, and how they do it.

My biggest issue is about choice.
ED has always left us the choice on how to play the game, what to do, and how to go about it.
This has changed with Update 14, Aftermath: War.

Now there is a crisis that threatens (according to FDev) not only the bubble, but any connected human-colonised area, including Colonia.

You can ignore that (for a while, probably), hoping others will do something to stop the invasion, but (again according to FDev), inaction will cause humanity to die out.

Not that I really believe that - FDev will nerf the „Thargoid war machine“ to the point where whoever still „fights“
will earn success. A post-cataclysm Galaxy where the Thargoids have wiped out the bubble and Colonia? Not going to happen, for gameplay reasons.

Besides that, you only can choose to contribute to the human war effort; whatever you do (rescue, evacuate, of course AX combat) counts as pushing the Thargoids back.
What if I do not want that? What if I want to play a pro-peace CMDR who just wants to rescue civilians, but without playing into the hands of self-styled „bug hunters“ with racist (or call it „specy-ist“, if „racist“ for you only covers humans) „Glory to mankind“ slogans?

Where are the options to advance science towards communication and peace with the Thargoids? Does delivering „Unknown relics“ to Palin or Ram Tah achieve anything?f

My other larger beef with Frontier is the characterisation of the Thargoids.

I find it really strange how Frontier has steered this storyline towards the current setting - unless, of course, I consider that „space game with shooting aliens“ is interesting for more players than „space game without shooting aliens“. The Thargoids as a story element and gameplay adversary are surely an important part of keeping players in the game (especially as Odyssey on-foot combat, as far as I can see, only appeals to a minority of ED gamers).
But for keeping another species as adversary in the game, there have been many options without forcing us all into the situation described above, in which we either can support an anti-Thargoid war (against at least my moral standards as humans are clearly the invasive species) - or completely abstain from participation. (Yes, I can choose to gank AX commanders, which would be akin to seal clubbing since AX ships are not PVP ships. No, not really a choice.)
My own favourite option would have been to see the Guardian AI arise and attack both humanity and the Thargoids, so humans and Thargoids could have fought side by side, but that is just a side remark.

But Frontier chose to make the Thargoids territorial and really reluctant to attack human ships - until they could no longer ignore us and now have launched a fully-fledged counter-attack.

If you by any chance have read my CMDRs role-play thoughts, you know that she would happily fly rescue and evac missions.
But I find myself not wanting to - due to me (the gamer’s) meta-beef with the developers.
Which leads to extremely reduced ED gaming time on my side.

Please, Frontier - I love this game, please give us back freedom of choice!

Give us mechanics to rescue civilian NPCs without adding to the human war effort.
Awaken the Guardian AI and let us fight alongside the Thargoids.
Give us meaningful ways to achieve communication and peace negotiations with the Thargoids.

Give me something worth playing this game for, again. Thanks.

 

[DrinkyBird]

Currently you can still play ED as normal: I don’t play a lot anymore but when I do I don’t do anything related to thargoids, because I don’t give a toss about this war.
I have a feeling that neither Frontier nor the more dedicated portions of the player base would let the bubble and Colonia get actually destroyed as it would result in the loss of the play space for most of the gameplay. Which is just as well for those of us who don’t care.
And if I’m wrong and the bubble does get destroyed, I’m glad I have other games to move on to, which I find is generally a good idea if the direction of a game goes in a direction you dislike.

 

[PhoenixBlue0]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who finds the Anti-Xeno Initiative's rhetoric more than a little creepy. All that said, there's no dishonor in saving people, nor in fighting for one's homes. You don't have to like how we got to this point to realize that the Thargoids seem to want all humanity annihilated now. Sitting out the war won't save anyone.

 

[varonica]

My biggest issue is about choice.
ED has always left us the choice on how to play the game, what to do, and how to go about it.
This has changed with Update 14, Aftermath: War.

You understand that everything that led up to the Thargoid War was about choice, choice to supply some idiot scientists mats to make his genocidal super weapon and many things before leading up to that, choices every step of the way, the player base, as a whole, chose to have this war, us non-interested players just got carried along because we didn't oppose it enough,there weren't enough of us, or players who did theoretically oppose it still supported it for the engineered upgrades and weapons. Them's the breaks as they say.

I just ignore it and explore....hasn't changed my game play much, it may affect other more, but there's not much we can do about that now.

 

[Screemonster]

You understand that everything that led up to the Thargoid War was about choice, choice to supply some idiot scientists mats to make his genocidal super weapon and many things before leading up to that, choices every step of the way, the player base, as a whole, chose to have this war, us non-interested players just got carried along because we didn't oppose it enough,there weren't enough of us, or players who did theoretically oppose it still supported it for the engineered upgrades and weapons. Them's the breaks as they say.

I just ignore it and explore....hasn't changed my game play much, it may affect other more, but there's not much we can do about that now.

Yeah, the playerbase did what I previously thought impossible: supported the obvious villain in a series of opposed CGs, instead of what they usually do which is stomp the upstart before the status quo gets shaken up too much (see: nova imperium, jupiter division, etc)

 

[Northpin]

ED has always left us the choice on how to play the game, what to do, and how to go about it.

we still have the choice

This has changed with Update 14, Aftermath: War.

Nope, not really - 20000+ systems in the bubble, only about 350 affected now.
The vast majority of the bubble is untouched

Now there is a crisis that threatens (according to FDev) not only the bubble, but any connected human-colonised area, including Colonia.

Yea, but you need to put things into perspective.
This is a narrative. If the scope of the narrative is to end the human presence in the bubble, then in Colonia, you cant really fight it
If the scope of the narrative is to keep the warmongers busy, it already does that.

You can ignore that (for a while, probably), hoping others will do something to stop the invasion, but (again according to FDev), inaction will cause humanity to die out.

You can certainly ignore it for good.
And if you are not really an AX pilot, it's better to ignore the combat part (by doing supply and rescue missions) or even ignore the narrative completely.

TBH is worse for the greater good for someone to pretend they help in the fight by going in an AX CZ in crap ships with crap weaponry and crap fighting skills, eventually bringing in some SLF crews (to compensate) which SLF will do worse than good (by lagging and bugging instances)

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Sitting out the war won't save anyone.

Unfortunately, with the mission boards never working anymore, that choice has been made for us.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Yeah, the playerbase did what I previously thought impossible: supported the obvious villain in a series of opposed CGs, instead of what they usually do which is stomp the upstart before the status quo gets shaken up too much (see: nova imperium, jupiter division, etc)

but... shiny toys?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Supply and Evac are legitimate actions, the person limiting the OPs options is the OP and their preconceptions.
Yes we lack an alien culture to explore and trade with, I think that desire has been constant throughout.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Supply and Evac are legitimate actions, the person limiting the OPs options is the OP and their preconceptions.

Again, no they aren't. Well, they are when the mission boards work. Sadly, they don't most of the time, so all you have left is combat.

 

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Ana’s puppeteer - The 2nd Thargoid war
Thoughts of an Elite Dangerous player on how this storyline has been reached and how is being executed

First off, I appreciate that this game is Frontier’s property, and they can do with it what they want.

As a player of Elite Dangerous, I think I also have the freedom for stating why I am miffed with what they do, and how they do it.

My biggest issue is about choice.
ED has always left us the choice on how to play the game, what to do, and how to go about it.
This has changed with Update 14, Aftermath: War.

Now there is a crisis that threatens (according to FDev) not only the bubble, but any connected human-colonised area, including Colonia.

You can ignore that (for a while, probably), hoping others will do something to stop the invasion, but (again according to FDev), inaction will cause humanity to die out.

Not that I really believe that - FDev will nerf the „Thargoid war machine“ to the point where whoever still „fights“
will earn success. A post-cataclysm Galaxy where the Thargoids have wiped out the bubble and Colonia? Not going to happen, for gameplay reasons.

Besides that, you only can choose to contribute to the human war effort; whatever you do (rescue, evacuate, of course AX combat) counts as pushing the Thargoids back.
What if I do not want that? What if I want to play a pro-peace CMDR who just wants to rescue civilians, but without playing into the hands of self-styled „bug hunters“ with racist (or call it „specy-ist“, if „racist“ for you only covers humans) „Glory to mankind“ slogans?

Where are the options to advance science towards communication and peace with the Thargoids? Does delivering „Unknown relics“ to Palin or Ram Tah achieve anything?f

My other larger beef with Frontier is the characterisation of the Thargoids.

I find it really strange how Frontier has steered this storyline towards the current setting - unless, of course, I consider that „space game with shooting aliens“ is interesting for more players than „space game without shooting aliens“. The Thargoids as a story element and gameplay adversary are surely an important part of keeping players in the game (especially as Odyssey on-foot combat, as far as I can see, only appeals to a minority of ED gamers).
But for keeping another species as adversary in the game, there have been many options without forcing us all into the situation described above, in which we either can support an anti-Thargoid war (against at least my moral standards as humans are clearly the invasive species) - or completely abstain from participation. (Yes, I can choose to gank AX commanders, which would be akin to seal clubbing since AX ships are not PVP ships. No, not really a choice.)
My own favourite option would have been to see the Guardian AI arise and attack both humanity and the Thargoids, so humans and Thargoids could have fought side by side, but that is just a side remark.

But Frontier chose to make the Thargoids territorial and really reluctant to attack human ships - until they could no longer ignore us and now have launched a fully-fledged counter-attack.

If you by any chance have read my CMDRs role-play thoughts, you know that she would happily fly rescue and evac missions.
But I find myself not wanting to - due to me (the gamer’s) meta-beef with the developers.
Which leads to extremely reduced ED gaming time on my side.

Please, Frontier - I love this game, please give us back freedom of choice!

Give us mechanics to rescue civilian NPCs without adding to the human war effort.
Awaken the Guardian AI and let us fight alongside the Thargoids.
Give us meaningful ways to achieve communication and peace negotiations with the Thargoids.

Give me something worth playing this game for, again. Thanks.

The Thargoids was always descripted as territorial and aggressiv. Back in the good old days it gives a mystery of two Thargoids casts, the oresian and the klaxxian. That was the best way to implement a peacefully approach to them, but Fdev are thinlipped about this.

Because the Oresians was described as the ,,peacefully,, cast and the klaxxians are the bad guys who hunt them down. But I guess this isn’t anymore cannon to elite sadly.

I have no problems that they are going on a Armageddon run after the humanity trying again to make a new genocide to the Thargoids.

Therefore the peacefully way wasn’t really impactful, yes it was storydriven from Fdev, but I like that fact. The Thargoids was long enough just the endgamecontent to proof your skills in shipbuilding and Xeno fight.

It feels more natural that they now react to us more, I love the idea of being interdicted in SC. Because befor all this stuff is happening, they where just peacefully and didn’t make more then fly around and collecting rescue pods and other stuff.

PS: at the moment the guardians seems to be more friendly in the past, so it would be nice that the guardians will raise up or some of their exliants has survived the aftermath of their civic war and the AI Armageddon. Who knows, it would be nice.

 

[Anantyanta]

Supply and Evac are legitimate actions, the person limiting the OPs options is the OP and their preconceptions.
Yes we lack an alien culture to explore and trade with, I think that desire has been constant throughout.

To you and alll the others saying "You can still fly rescue and evac" - maybe I have not made my point clearly enough.
I cannot fly rescue, evac, or do anything connected to the war without supporting the human side of the war.
This in not my "preconception". This is the situation FDev have put us in.

As somebody craving a pro-peace option (and yes, I DID opposed Salvation, Sirius Corp, Azimuth Biotech, Hudson and all the other warmongers from the moment I realised their agenda), I can only either

• support the human war effort or
• ignore the war

Why am I excluded from participating in the most intense storyline in ED in years?
Usually Frontier gave us (with the exception of a couple extremely biased CGs which pushed pro-war agendas) some choice - pro or contra, or ignore.
Today it's "pro-war", or ignore.
That's my beef.

 

[Anantyanta]

The Thargoids was always descripted as territorial and aggressiv. Back in the good old days it gives a mystery of two Thargoids casts, the oresian and the klaxxian. That was the best way to implement a peacefully approach to them, but Fdev are thinlipped about this.
...

As Frontier said: "If it's not in the game (ED), it is not canon."
"Aggressive Thargoids" were not in ED up to the Protheus Wave. Read up on this here in the great post by @Rainbro.

They aren't here to kill us (an overly-long analysis of Thargoid behaviour)​

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Why am I excluded from participating in the most intense storyline in ED in years?
Usually Frontier gave us (with the exception of a couple extremely biased CGs which pushed pro-war agendas) some choice - pro or contra, or ignore.
Today it's "pro-war", or ignore.
That's my beef.

You are not excluded, you are excluding yourself. I realize from a game-mechanic perspective, running evac is kind or supporting the war effort, as it is bucket filling for the human side. But I don't see how it could be different other than completely ignoring humanitarian efforts of the players - even less ideal. But RP-wise, it does not mean "pro-war". It means getting people out of systems who are in danger. No more, no less.

Frontier gave the players some choices, and they always chose poorly. Of course they biased the CGs, because singing Kumbaya with the otherwise elusive Thargoids doesn't make for good gameplay. But there were choices that could have been made differently. Now we are where we are, and, for now, peace is off the table. You cannot try genocide twice and then the game master pulls a rabbit out of his head and goes "peace, y'all".

What kind of participation are you expecting? With a galactic war, you either fight, try to help the civilian victims, run away or ignore it. Not much else to do.

As Frontier said: "If it's not in the game (ED), it is not canon."
"Aggressive Thargoids" were not in ED up to the Protheus Wave. Read up on this here in the great post by @Rainbro.

They aren't here to kill us (an overly-long analysis of Thargoid behaviour)​

Agressive Thargoids are a thing since we tried genocide on them. Twice. Things change.

 

[Anantyanta]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who finds the Anti-Xeno Initiative's rhetoric more than a little creepy. All that said, there's no dishonor in saving people, nor in fighting for one's homes. You don't have to like how we got to this point to realize that the Thargoids seem to want all humanity annihilated now. Sitting out the war won't save anyone.

Yeah, the rhetorics of AX players (not only AXI) are very often quite repulsive. The claim is often "but it's only a game!" or "It is only role-play!", but the problem is that it is not made clear where role-play ends and RL starts, or the other way around. (That's why I made two longer texts, the one above as player and the Inara log-entry as role-play commander.)

Maybe sitting out the war won't save anyone. So it is just even more imperative to search for non-violent options. But we are given none.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Also: If Frontier puts it into ED, it is canon. Simple.

 

[Anantyanta]

What kind of participation are you expecting? With a galactic war, you either fight, try to help the civilian victims, run away or ignore it. Not much else to do.


Agressive Thargoids are a thing since we tried genocide on them. Twice. Things change.

As I just said: Maybe sitting out the war won't save anyone. So it is just even more imperative to search for non-violent options. But we are given none.

 

[Anantyanta]

Also: If Frontier puts it into ED, it is canon. Simple.

The aggressive Thargoids are still not in ED.
They are retaliating to protect themselves, after having tried to be extremely peaceful. That's different from being aggressive/genocidal.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

As I just said: Maybe sitting out the war won't save anyone. So it is just even more imperative to search for non-violent options. But we are given none.

The galactic war and Frontier's planned narrative is just in its infancy. I would say give it time. For now, non-violent options other than saving people are doomed. Ask the Kingfisher.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The aggressive Thargoids are still not in ED.
They are retaliating to protect themselves, after having tried to be extremely peaceful. That's different from being aggressive/genocidal.

Oh, I agree with the stance that the Thargoids were not the aggressors. The old status quo was: If you leave them alone and don't take their stuff, they leave you alone. But we didn't leave them alone, and we took their stuff. So "peaceful not agressive Thargoids"? That is over.