No Single Player offline Mode then?

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If they would have said in the kickstarter to not take their promises too seriously as they are going to do just what they want to do at the end of the day, then I would not have backed the kickstarter.

The offline mode means more than just offline, what it really means is you have control of a version of the game and a version of the game is in your hands only and no one could decide one day you are not going to play it anymore.

This is not just changing or dropping a feature, this is a whole fundamental foundation part of the game that was very clearly promised.
 
There is no AAA popular game where still people complain about not being able to play offline.

I'm not playing AAA online games, because they are online (only) games. So why would I even bother registering to their forums to complain when I can't even play them as is in the first place?
 
Pretty much, also hacks and cheats, if they give out the server they pretty much know within a week there will be hacked clients all over the place as the server is reverse engineered. I think they should release the server and encourage the mod community to start modding and injecting events into their own servers... and do with it what they will, imagine the ED mods people could make :) Fingers crossed for the future :)

I'm hopeful that when FDEV decide to drop support, something would happen to allow gameplay. Even if we have to rent a dedicated server from them and all play in solo mode because it can't cope with anything else... lol
 
I was under the impression that this was not the same as every other PC game these days, and hence the reason I spend 200 pounds on it.

I feel scammed.

Actually you spent 200 pounds to access an Alpha and a Beta which I assume you have done without any major issues (regarding you internet connection).

Therefore you have no grounds to feel scammed, if you have managed to play the Alpha and Beta (even in Solo mode with a dodgy connection) , then that wont change come release, you will still be able to play.

So you haven't been scammed, also you paid for 200 pounds for the game to get made, you didn't have to spend that much money, nobody put a gun to your head and forced you..

So therefore you haven't been scammed (are you seeing a pattern here) ...
 
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CadetJamson;1005209]You don't own it even with a hard copy.

If this is a deal breaker goodbye, I hope you get refunded.[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't get replies like this.
Of course I know that you "technically" don't own your games, but in practice you do and that is what matters. Did you actually think I was gonna go "Oh my, I guess I'm gonna buy Elite now since i don't really own any of my games"?
The fact that this thread has grown this big this fast means that offline support is important to a lot of people.
Hopefully the big game sites grabs hold of this.
 
Actually I have a feeling it may because they've been getting more stuff off the client side of things, on to the server. I've noticed a marked increase in cheat protection measures (nice job, Frontier) and they may have reached the point where they simply can't have a fully offline version now since they've moved too much to the servers.

A very good point - it could well be that the player base (a small number) through cheats have forced FD's hand to make the offline version unacceptable...i.e. break the online game. Probably if we were provided all of the technical data and context and sat through and weighed up everything - we may well have all voted the same way against the smaller would-be offline population.
 
I think that you have a different idea of what 'reward' means than most people.

A quote from the kickstarter terms:
"
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill. "

I bear no ill-will towards FD for this change, but my £300 included rewards that are no longer part of what is to be delivered. That is just fact.
 
How do you suppose the refunds will be dealt out? Tokens to be spent on paint jobs from station services maybe. ;)

no sorry
that out side the law
refunds have to be in the curency they were paid in
by cheque/bank transfer
any problems just got to your credit card / paypal account
 
Of course I know that you "technically" don't own your games, but in practice you do and that is what matters.

Oh I would agree with your sentiment, however I present you Exhibit A: Steam.
Tell me again how you own anything there, and how upset everyone is about it. Worse, you're not even purchasing a license, but merely a "subscription". Which can be canceled by Valve at any time, for any reason. Now, I think that's completely and utterly wrong, but that's the way it is with Steam at the moment.

Aside from that, the reality is that games with a huge emphasis on online components tend to stop working after they sunset, unless someone breaks the protocol and writes a custom server, or the server code is made available to the public.

I bought Planetside 1 and the Core Combat expansion. As in, purchasing as a retail game. Sure it had a subscription on top, it's free to play for now, but someday sony will pull the plug on the servers and then the game will cease to function.

Now the communication about the decision to drop offline singleplayer could have been handled a lot better by Frontier. Or, they could've stated that offline play may be released at a later date, with reduced functionality. Because frankly, I think that's what they should do.

And I say that even though I myself am completely happy not playing offline. But I understand the anger.
 
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CadetJamson;1005209]You don't own it even with a hard copy.

If this is a deal breaker goodbye, I hope you get refunded.

I honestly don't get replies like this.
Of course I know that you "technically" don't own your games, but in practice you do and that is what matters. Did you actually think I was gonna go "Oh my, I guess I'm gonna buy Elite now since i don't really own any of my games"?
The fact that this thread has grown this big this fast means that offline support is important to a lot of people.
Hopefully the big game sites grabs hold of this.[/QUOTE]

I was pointing out that this situation is not unique...

You are unhappy and that is a shame and if this is a deal breaker then get a refund. I am now going to play elite dangerous for a few hours.
 
I suppose this is the crux of the argument isn't it?
People do not feel that Frontier spending a year trying to implement it was not enough effort.

Yes, it probably is. That, and the fact that if they were trying to implement something, struggling with it, discussing, some kind of notification would have gone a long way, as would an official announcement rather than a quick line in a newsletter and quickly buried forum posts. There are still people who will not know a thing about this, expecting a DRM free offline game mode. To quote myself, again:

I think an apology, a statement on this, would have gone a loooooong way. It feels like they said: "YAY, free ships! Isn't pizza great? This! This! This! Oh, and your cat died."

This is a core feature - gone - with 1 month left before release, announced as an afterthought in a single line of a newsletter.
 
A quote from the kickstarter terms:
"
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill. "

I bear no ill-will towards FD for this change, but my £300 included rewards that are no longer part of what is to be delivered. That is just fact.

Reading the whole paragraph helps to understand the clause.
 
So, I don't think it's accurate to suggest they would have dropped offline as a feature the moment they decided to implement the galaxy on the server, since they always were going implement the galaxy on the server.

Offline Solo (Previous): Game would start and be playable even if you stayed disconnected. Done correctly, we could even receive "galaxy status updates" every now and then, at our own leisure. Even under DDOS attacked or server termination at end of life, we could still play the game.

Online Solo (Current): Game won't start unless you're online, and we can't even trade since that is now handled through central server. During DDOS attack or after server termination (or their company is bought out), we could end up with a game we paid for which we could no longer play. Imagine if this was your car... Just saying.
 
You know, I would put money on the fact that this decision is purely to prevent piracy. With massive storage being the norm these days, there is no way they couldn't whack out a single player offline game.

I think so as well and it gives them more control on the future to do subscription model and to push a new pay again for versions of the game.
Which is all what other companies do so is normal, shame they misled us though giving us the impression that with them we would actually have the full product in our house, not on servers.
 
Not Happy! I bought the Beta as they mentioned off line play.
I don't want multiplayer or a solo online world where my Galaxy is being polluted by others.
I wanted to play an undiscovered Galaxy.Go into unknown areas and see how large a known area I could create in the many years of playing this.
How am I suppose to achieve this now when others will be heading in all different directions discovering and expanding the Galaxy.
Seriously how can you now at this late stage remove this one feature I wanted the most.
 
Because that then becomes another product we have to create and support and that just isn't possible. We have considered many alternatives to see if we could make this work, but unfortunately this is what we've had to do.

Michael

The problem here is that you'd have access to the server which isn't something we'd want to allow as it contains the secrets of the galaxy. Which was also an issue with an online version.

Michael

As I've mentioned elsewhere I understand the sentiment. We have put considerable time and effort to try and make this happen, but we've had to make this decision to make the game we set out to do. We would happily support offline play if it were possible for us to do so.

Michael

Why is this very different to the comment you made yesterday which was not that we could not run a server ourselves but that you did not want to give us the server data so that we could run it ourselves.

You can't say your simulating more then the X series at the moment your own documentation, interviews state your not.. the X Series is simulating every sector, every ship, every station, every station process even if you are not in the system.. where as by your own admission Elite simply looks at the current system and then once some one turns up starts producing traffic based on the data in the background simulation.. Hence why there is no true perminancy to ships in those systems.

Even if we have to store the changing data for trade etc it's still only on the level of number data so even if it's millions of entries it's only 100's of mb because in the end it's Text (likely encoded but still text) data, and a simple purge of the older data every x amount of time would prevent that data from bloating and given that it's never meant to be as 'dynamic' would mean that it would fit with the 'not as indepth'.

The core 'seed' David himself has stood and been interviewed and I believe his comment 'Rules are beautiful' because they allow something like this... 4319823178903217807832178078321780321 to generate an entire universe that is the core of your technology the procedrual generation of using those sets of number to produce all your data.. Or are you actually saying you've mislead not only university lectures but the press on that?

The textures etc for worlds are already being generated on our machines, so there not the cause of the extra data.

The underlying simulation shouldn't be running really at anything more then 1hz heartbeat as there is no need for an economic simulation to run faster then 1 second at a time... so the overhead process on that shouldn't be that hard, add to that you could simply 'wrapper' the entire thing in a offline server so that it only looks at a 50 or so LY radius of the players current position and only runs the Simulation on those sectors... which would be a simple function call.

But even when those who have programming knowledge point things like this out we expect to be flamed and told we have no clue.

Look I've no issue with you guys saying we don't want to release the server, because we don't want to let people play at home they have to play our way.. But at the moment your own posts keep contradicting each other Michael and rather than come clean on what the server actually requires you hide behind 'oh its in the cloud'.

Cloud based computing is simply 'server based' computing rather then 'workstation' based computing, it's existed since the 70's with dumb terminals.. the modern younger generation might be fooled but you've a lot of older generation here who know exactly how and what cloud computing is..

But what I find the worst of all this is that rather than address it as you should, a post and likely a VIDEO of it's own where you fronted up to the community and where honest addressed us one on one, you hid it in a newletter paragraph and even then mislead about the level of 'connectivity' that would be required. That's just wrong.
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
A quote from the kickstarter terms:
"
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill. "

I bear no ill-will towards FD for this change, but my £300 included rewards that are no longer part of what is to be delivered. That is just fact.

I have highlighted a part of that reference. Nearly 2 years of project development would be seen anywhere as a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill which seems to be the main thrust of most peoples complaints.
 
have u paid for the beta? Are u playing at the moment? You don't have to play against other players you can go solo.


not every one has a permanant or reliable inertnet connection so offline on internet was a required and stated option
 
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