Thargoid War Feedback

[StefanOS]

The interceptor kill missions offered are often IMPOSSIBLE to master in the given TIMEFRAME of 1-2 days ..... missions like 20 Basilsiks - 15 Medusas and so on ..... I can do that - even solo - but the time needed is beyond the 1-2 days the mission lasts !
BTW the mission timer is NOT even SHOWN in the mission description - before the mission is accepted - so you accept them - maybe more the 1 mission - thinking you can do 2-3 Medusas each evening - only to find out that you would need to kill 15 Medusas in 1 or 2 evenings as the timer expires.
So either you give such mission more time (15 Medusas in 1 week) or you have to reduce the number of interceports to realistic possible values in that timeframe - 1,5 days (are max. 2 evenings) 4 Medusas.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I tried the AX combat but it got boring pretty quickly. Mainly because of questionable design choices like 4 piece limit to AX weaponry (though this is going to be increased afaik) or hitpoint inflation on higher tier thargoids, insufficient ammo to burn through their inflated hitpoints without synthing, way too high armor hardness (no weapon can keep up with it, there is no such tool in the game) and no use for the materials the thargoids drop.

Furthermore, the systems they attack seem to be of no significant value, gameplay wise. Founder's world and engineer systems should be high priority targets for the thargoids as well as guardian sites where their doom comes from. Strategically, I just can not comprehend their doctrine.

Lastly, a huge imbalance on modules and ships. For example the T10 was advertised as being the front line AX vessel, but it is such a bad ship and not worth picking up really. Instead, the Chieftain and obviously go-to meta ships like the Cutter are chosen. Shields are still very powerful against thargoids despite them having many anti shield utilites. The only viable weapon right now is the gauss cannon really. All other AX weapons are basically garbage and wasted development time so far because of a few values that, to this date, are getting ignored.

I like the humble chaos the thargs are causing but as long as reddit is still filled with screenshots, the thargoid "war" is a minor pad loitering at best.

So things to do IMO:

• Strategically target critical systems such as founder's and engineering systems, perhaps PP/BGS HQs?
• Add a gameplay use for thargoid materials for example tech broker weapons (viable enzyme missiles, lightning guns, boost surpressor, EMP?)
• Balance, balance, balance, the favourite task FD has been neglecting for so long

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Thinking a bit more, I'm going to add another comment on the strategic layer: I actually think the reset on invasions is a good thing.

Chanyaya last week got a big push to 96% and then the Thargoids overwhelmed the defence and destroyed the station.
If progress didn't reset, then it'd be a guaranteed extra victory this week (and a 4-week recovery cycle either way) so the intermediate total wouldn't really matter.
Without the reset, there's not really very much scope for narrow defeats and heroic but futile last stands, which are as much a part of a war as "that time we kicked those alien anatomy-analogues" - it'd take away a lot of the urgency and coordination requirements if a narrow miss like Chanyaya was essentially "also a victory".

(Obviously, in any local context, players hate losing and would rather not do so. That's fair enough, if they wanted to lose, they'd be playing Dwarf Fortress. But it still needs to be an option)

I've seen other suggestions for "but it should be easier next week" - which sounds reasonable to me: that said, we don't actually have enough information right now to know that you haven't already done that


But: to add to my earlier "information" comments, the way the Invasion timer is presented in-game is unintuitive, and not the same way the timers for Alert, Recovery or Control work. So it definitely needs changing to always be a 1-week timer with a separate "system will be lost entirely in X weeks" timer for display, or something else to make the difference between the multi-week Invasion state and the multi-week Recovery state obvious.

 

[Cori]

A few thoughts, although I think mostly not anything that hasn't already been said:

• Having fun. First time into AX combat and also the first time in a while I've gone back to Open (I got very distrustful of other Commanders after a few ... incidents)
• Rescue ships don't seem very close to the contested areas
• CZs are unfortunately really buggy. Mostly in terms of stuck progress bars but I've also seen invulnerable interceptors, teleporting interceptors, etc. I think I've seen one CZ finish properly so far.
• Active side of Xeno Scanner is too slow / short range against the hostile targets we're fighting now
• Point Defence Turrets appear unable to deal with Thargoid missiles
• why has no-one yet invented a caustic-resistant hull plating?
• Guardian hybrid SLFs are much less useful than I hoped. Particularly crew seem to fly through caustic clouds and die a lot.
• Mission payouts for scout hunting seem rather low? I mean, you make good money from the bonds, but the actual missions themselves pay peanuts, to the point where it might not even be worth taking them.
• Why are the Maelstroms now only numbered when you gave them all names while travelling?
• consider adding information on the current system's progress to the Status tab of the Internal panel
• could use some gimballed Guardian weapons. Really don't like fixed weapons.
• you cannot jump a carrier into an invaded system, but apparently a carrier already present can stay there. Surprised they're not forced to leave.
• not a fan of the absolute weekly reset. Not quite as ticked off as I was the first week when it happened with no warning, but it feels very artificial.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Thinking a bit more, I'm going to add another comment on the strategic layer: I actually think the reset on invasions is a good thing.

Chanyaya last week got a big push to 96% and then the Thargoids overwhelmed the defence and destroyed the station.
If progress didn't reset, then it'd be a guaranteed extra victory this week (and a 4-week recovery cycle either way) so the intermediate total wouldn't really matter.
Without the reset, there's not really very much scope for narrow defeats and heroic but futile last stands, which are as much a part of a war as "that time we kicked those alien anatomy-analogues" - it'd take away a lot of the urgency and coordination requirements if a narrow miss like Chanyaya was essentially "also a victory".

Going to disagree because without the weekly timer Chanyaya wouldn't have seen anywhere near as much progress as it did; it was barely halfway a day before the tick and was dogpiled on because nothing else was close to being completed.
If the weekly reset wasn't a thing we would be seeing completely different stategies/targets attempted, such as sequentially clearing out specific areas of space of all invaded/controlled systems. But since that is currently infeasible, it's a case of a few big groups picking targets for main course and then scrambling for scraps later in the week.
We would still have the 1 week timers for taking controlled systems and 3/4 week timers for invasions, so plenty of opportunities for heroic last stands.

 

[drty]

I was very surprised that after the end of the recovery period in HIP 23716, the population of the system returned to its original value. It was 1,973,975 before the invasion started, and now it's shown as 2M on the galmap, which is basically the same. So, if thargoids don't kill or abduct people, why are we actually fighting them? They seem to be pretty peaceful, don't they?

 

[John Stoutbeard]

Thinking a bit more, I'm going to add another comment on the strategic layer: I actually think the reset on invasions is a good thing.

Chanyaya last week got a big push to 96% and then the Thargoids overwhelmed the defence and destroyed the station.
If progress didn't reset, then it'd be a guaranteed extra victory this week (and a 4-week recovery cycle either way) so the intermediate total wouldn't really matter.
Without the reset, there's not really very much scope for narrow defeats and heroic but futile last stands, which are as much a part of a war as "that time we kicked those alien anatomy-analogues" - it'd take away a lot of the urgency and coordination requirements if a narrow miss like Chanyaya was essentially "also a victory".

(Obviously, in any local context, players hate losing and would rather not do so. That's fair enough, if they wanted to lose, they'd be playing Dwarf Fortress. But it still needs to be an option)

I've seen other suggestions for "but it should be easier next week" - which sounds reasonable to me: that said, we don't actually have enough information right now to know that you haven't already done that


But: to add to my earlier "information" comments, the way the Invasion timer is presented in-game is unintuitive, and not the same way the timers for Alert, Recovery or Control work. So it definitely needs changing to always be a 1-week timer with a separate "system will be lost entirely in X weeks" timer for display, or something else to make the difference between the multi-week Invasion state and the multi-week Recovery state obvious.

Spot on. I think the reset is a good mechanics, it gives us more opportunities to chose the right systems to focus on.
And if the consequence is that recovery takes longer time - if we lost a system x number of weeks, then I think it makes sense as the infrastructure has been hit hard for many many weeks.

---
Reflections on design choices so far
The whole loop for providing a new AX-family of weapons is working against Player Agency because of the added Economy-sinks, but we can live with that one. It does bring 'flavor' and choices. But ...
It is an inflation in the Economy - you introduce more SINKS adding to the 'grind'. CR + Engineering + System Permission unlocks + Separate unlocks of weapons (at least 4 factors) is a HUGE sink. By time & consequence it acts against the player from choosing their own path because the size of the sinks involved.

- Facilitate FOR player agency: Avoid gamified/artificial restrictions on weapons / loadouts. Allow the players to chose their ships, number of slots.
I know, restrictions are being lifted - but I want to state WHY the idea was wrong in the first place, avoid similar design-issues in the future. I also suspect it may have been chosen as it simpllificies some choices in the design & executing the implmentation. But it lacks insight to what it does for the player.

Artificial restrictions such as the AX-limit prevent gamestyles.
Argument: "But if we remove the limitation then balance will be broken!?". Yes, but No.
- It's a separate issue to solve and has nothing to do with selection of ships & loadouts, or things facilitating for player agency.
The issue can be managed separately. Balance using the properties of weapons, energy and all the other factors already available in the engine.
Some AX restrictions is going away = Good

Anyway, sorry didn't intend to come across as salty & fingerpointing. Just wanted to highlight some of the design-choices & consequences, perhaps we can learn from it.
I still love the new bubble - so much new stuff & new activities.

o7

 

[londonx]

I think there is a missed opportunity to make recovering System abandoned Settlements more dangerous or interesting as they have a great atmosphere, maybe have pools of caustic damage on the ground that will eat through your suit or the chance of hostile scavengers turning up or even some friendly recon NPCs doing surveying that means you have to be more Stealth about looting or who could provide Thargoid or Power-Up side-missions

 

[Factabulous]

Love the new stuff:

• CZ around Outposts and Starports are great fun
• Nice to have a variety of system states and systems are easily found via the galmap
• Addition of Orthrus doing weird stuff and ability to investigate the Maelstroms well done

But:

• Really need the system states and progress in the journals - it's a pain finding a place to work and enabling inara etc to to their magic would help a lot
• I often want to find an Outpost for some fun - but the Galmap only shows that there is 'something' on fire - and it often have > 1 hour to find an outpost or Starport as often it is a surface base on fire, or it's 100k ls away from the star (Thargoid Interdictions get a bit boring on long travel routes). Would be nice if we could tell from the galmap between surface / space attacks (though if it was in the journal it would be even better )
• Most of the game is designed around 'blaze your own trail'. I find the AX gameplay is the opposite - I can do reasonable amounts of work in a system and see zero effect, so really you have to follow the crowd to get anywhere. Contrast this with something like the BGS where I have had fun flipping systems on my own - it takes a while but is possible. The weekly 'start again' nature of the AX BGS makes this not possible.
• No scout-only fights is a downer for my trusty T-10 - it's too slow to be fun against Interceptors but used to have fun in scout-only NHSS. 'old' NHSS6 could have 10+ scouts - now I have rarely come across any NHSS with more than 2 scouts (it's more normal for interceptors to pop up). Bonus points if for variety we could have a class of CZ that are only scouts
• On the subject of T-10s - the best ship for the new content seems to be the Krait - would be nice of the AX ships were more viable
• AX CZ are very time consuming - progressing an AX CZ at an Outpost in Solo it seemed like I would need to kill ~10 Interceptors in a row to complete - which would take me a couple of hours (sadly I was killed before doing that, so was expected to start again). Not sure if this was a bug as I thought previously they were Scouts > Cyclops > Big boi, which would be less of a time sink. I guess I just want more variety of AX CZ, or the information so we can choose.
• Kinda covered earlier - the NHSS / other new signal sources have some fun scenarios, but were weirdly too easy when I last looked - with only a small number of scouts and often just NPCs wondering why it was so quiet. Again more variety would be nice.
• Galmap showing unpopulated systems as being attacked is a bit weird, and doesn't help with finding somewhere to investigate. Not sure if intentional?

Hope that all made sense

 

[Phill P]

The NPC pirate interdictions when taking passengers and wounded to the rescue ships are ridiculously over the top. The missions seem to be a copy and paste of a regular mission board along with all their threat levels, but with no apparent thought given to the fact that when doing something like rescues many more missions are taken at once than would be taken on a regular mission board.

Because every mission has a threat level this can mean half a dozen ships or more after you at once and getting relentlessly interdicted in the rescue ship system. It's supposed to be the Thargoid War, not the Pirate War, yet the pirates are a bigger problem. Being interdicted 2-3 times by Thargoids in an Invasion system is one thing, we're at war with them so fair enough, but several times in a row by pirates in the rescue ship system is seriously tiresome. They often happen near the planet so evading them can be impossible without hitting it, and if you decide to submit you get attacked by half a dozen ships at once as they all drop in. A bit of dystopian human slavery is one thing but this is nonsensically immersion breaking.

Remove the threat levels on the evac missions (why is anyone threatening the critically wounded anyway?) or tone it down a bit. Systems take long enough to clear as it is without such illogical artificial hampering by someone who attacks you more often than the actual enemy.

With the missions themselves the ability to empty the board is another problem. This was also a problem in the old attacked systems before the current war, the mission board seemed copied over from a regular one without considering that with rescue ships taking up to 20 missions at a time the refresh rate needed to be changed, so it was possible to run the board out of missions and have to wait up to 20 minutes for a full refresh. It takes a bit longer now simply due to the rescue ships being further away but it can still be done.

What could and should be a cooperative venture is not one, because wings or people in the same instance merely take jobs off each other and empty the board faster. It wasn't addressed last time and it hasn't been addressed this time either, so groups which could and should be working as teams have their members in solo instead, just so they can get steady work.

Again, given the effort needed to clear a system the mission board should refresh faster so that cooperative play is actually viable.

 

[BDelacroix]

Its all already been said. Really like the idea of more after action missions on foot such as turning on power, putting out fires, investigating crashed thargoid stuff.

The biggest issue is the hit or miss nature of the bugged instances. I'm sure its being worked on. People blame it on SLFs and as a result you aren't allowed to use them unless you want to go solo. I haven't used one in a long while and yet the instances bug out quite frequently with nobody using one. We even have player threats of non consensual PVP if they see you have one. Bullies, of course, but it doesn't make people want to participate. Humans are funny, they always want a scapegoat.

 

[Bruce G]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to take a beat to thank you all for this feedback (keep it coming if you have more to share!). I can't reply to everybody, but I am reading each post and this is invaluable for me to pass on to the development and production teams.

 

[OliviaL]

I think some missions in Thargoid occupied systems would be great, missions in space and on the surface of planets, in settlements, etc. These empty bases and ports are very mysterious and has a very intense and powerful atmosphere. A great gaming experience would be guaranteed.

 

[aRJay]

A very minor thing that irritates me is the lack of relevance in some of the new NPC chat, I am in a low CZ and facing loads of hostile signals including two Interceptors and the Ax chat is all about how there is no targets.

 

[Jokonnoh]

O7, modded AX weapons are usually better than regular ones, except Gauss...modified Guardian gauss cannons suck. In any case, there's no reason to unlock the default Guardian weapons if you can choose newer ones that need to be built/crafted one by one, wasting weapon modules. Same thing for base AX weapons and new upgraded ones. Why buy basic weapons if you can have more powerful ones? Instead, it would be smart to use the basic weapons, Guardian and AX, to "build" the upgraded ones, treating them as "recipes". For example, to buy an AX-powered multicannon in a rescue ship, you must bring the basic equivalent.
The other alternative is... to delete the base versions that are no longer useful. they are redundant modules

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Some systems do not have the correct missions for their current war state.

Right now there are two systems in particular that don't seem to have the correct missions being offered:

• HIP 18075 is in invasion state, but offers no missions to evacuate either wounded people or passengers at any of its stations
• HIP 38235 is in invasion state and offers no missions at all (no evacuations, no supply requests, no thargoid missions).

In addition as mentioned by Ian above, there are "invisible" alert and control systems around the Leigong (HIP 8887) maelstrom where something appears to have gone wrong with the war simulation.

Just to highlight the impacts of this - many pilots (initially the majority) were drawn to defend HIP 38235, presumably due to the availability of large pads. But system defence progress was stymied by absence of evac missions. An organised effort at another system in the same cluster, which progressed to 30% completion, could have been redirected to HIP 38235, allowing the system to be potentially saved.

 

[Henoch]

Hi Bruce, all the best for the coming year. I am OK with the Thargoid war so far.

• Can you confirm that we have two species of Thargoids?
• Would you provide an in-game hint from where the Maelstroms originate?
• Don't you think it is time to build an in-game hint how to get closer to the center of the Maelstroms and to show what is in there?
• Do we have a chance to trace down where Subject D2 is and can we meet her in-game (in a ship/on foot) ? Or will it be Galnet news only (again)?

Thank you!

 

[Avod]

Hello Bruce

Hope you enjoyed your holidays and appreciate you taking the time to request feedback regarding the ongoing Thargoid War that we as the community are able to participate.

I think everyone in pages prior to my response has provided valuable feedback that I'm confident that you'll relay it to the appropriate developers within the team.

What I fail to see that is mentioned enough , is while technically not exactly related to the Thargoid War Feedback , is still in my view relevant to the War since these are features that are accessible by players and can be used for AX combat. Additionally we are seeing more of this as the conflict has escalated and with players openly working together to push back the growing Thargoid threat.

1. The usage of Ax Ship launched fighters for AX Combat in it's current state (such as the AX Taipan , and the three different versions of Guardian Ship Launched Fighters) has been causing issues with instancing in open and as well as in private groups (there has been issued reports in the past through the issue tracker, but you'll forgive me if I can't find them currently) and this seemingly has hindered it's usage all-together in this particular example.

2. The Ship Launched fighters themselves seems to be in a state of really having no feasible purpose in the War and in Ax combat itself. On one hand, you can allow your Hired Pilot to launch the fighters and obey commands that you relay to them to merely see it meet it's demise quickly, sometimes within seconds of launch, and on the other hand, you have the fighters that simply have insufficient damage , health and resistance to even warrant a consideration to use them in the first place.

I find with these two points I state above, that this issue is something that I would agree is used to a minimal aspect by a decent portion of the playerbase, these are features that I personally view as a missed opportunity to have been of great use as the war presently escalates. I would be pleased to see if the development team can perhaps reconsider a rebalancing/review of the Ship Launch Fighters and see if there is anything that can be entertained in terms of allowing them to have more survivability, resistance or even generalized purpose.

 

[Airom42]

The biggest thing in my opinion is simply to fix the bugs that have been present in AX combat for literally years, before releasing content that puts these bugs in the spotlight.
Invisible scouts, AXCZs failing to progress, invisible interceptors, AXCZs not completing, rubberbanding, shutdown pulses coming too early, shutdown pulses coming too late... the list goes on and on. AX combat has for a long time been extraordinarily bugged.

Secondly, I personally heavily disagree with the progress reset mechanic. It was poorly explained, and poorly implemented. It requires that players join with large organizations like the AXI, DCoH, or PDES in order to clear a system. Small, player run factions simply cannot clear systems by themselves. There is really no need for a progress reset mechanic. Combine this with the ever-changing thresholds, it makes the whole thing seem rather pointless.

Next, alert systems. Many alert systems have no starports or no planets at all. These systems have 0-5 signal sources - meaning it is nearly impossible to find thargoids to kill in order to repel an alert.

Next, systems can be retaken instantly after they come out of recovery. This leads to a never-ending loop in which we clear one system while 30 more become controlled.

Another minor thing, there are currently 30+ "invisible" systems around Maelstrom Leigong - systems which do not show up as Controlled or Alert on the galmap, but have thargoid signals in system.

All together, the war simply feels like it is not controlled by the player base at all for the following reasons:

• Progress resets each week, meaning only a few systems can be cleared.
• Systems can be re-invaded instantly after being cleared.
• The number of systems is simply too high for us to clear, no matter how hard we work.
• Alert systems often simply do not have enough Thargoids in them to repel the alert.
• Recovery is an automated process - sure, this is less work, but it cuts off IDA's gameplay.

Now, I'm sure this feeling is probably intentional, but if it goes on for too long it will simply cause burnout - players will simply wait until the gods of the universe deem it is time for humanity to gain a new superweapon, allowing them to actually repel the Thargoids.

 

[Unregistered Comms Beacon]

We're aware of a number of things already, ranging from the specifics of AX combat such as the Xeno-Scanner range of 500m being too short given the instant hostility, to the overall way the war operates. For instance, there is no particular focused effort encouraged via the game itself leaving players to organise themselves if they want to save given systems.

Hey @Bruce G love seeing the team looking for feed back, i'll keep it short because i know you are busy;

"For instance, there is no particular focused effort encouraged via the game itself leaving players to organise themselves if they want to save given systems. "

I actually like that this is community based forcing factions to work together, DCoH OpIda AXI PDES are all doing a great job, i wouldnt want AEGIS or something else taking away the player agency that has arisen from the conflict.

I think it would be better to forge closer working relationship between fdev and these groups like perhaps inviting them onto livestreams or mentions in galnet to make more people aware of them and the roles they play in the war.

What might help, is a way in game to see which systems are being focused by players and what percentage all the systems in a cluster are at, so they dont have to be check individually, this would give players wanting to join in but not part of community groups the information necessary to make desicions at a glance.

o7