Fixing turreted weapons with the StarLancer approach.

For those who've never heard of it, StarLancer was an awesome game that released around 2005. It was a space combat simulator with a wide variety of ships available, with similarly wide variety of weapons and utility options. It was the spiritual precursor to freelancer, if you might have heard of that one.

Anyway, one of the features that it had was what we know as gimbled weapon mounting. Similar to elite, gimbled weapons did less DPS than their fixed counterparts, to encourage players to try to use the more powerful fixed alternatives. However, the way they did this was rather inventive; they did not reduce the damage, but rather reduce the fire rate, given the impression of the computer taking time to place slower, more accurate shots. If you wanted more dps, you could actually toggle it off and immediately gain the full fixed damage.

Which leads me back to Elite. Turrented weapons have never seen very much use. The most common usage is on AFK boats, meant to be left unattended overnight, but I can hardly believe that was their intended purpose. While it can be a lot of fun having some of your weapons under the control of a multi-crew gunner, unfortunately, it just isn't worth the sacrifice for most players if they can't find themselves a multi crew Gunner.

So I thought, why not combine these two things?

First, set the damage per second of turreted weapons as equal to their fixed counterparts. When used in the fixed mode, they will do identical damage to fixed weapons, just while being substantially more expensive to buy and rebuy.

However, when used in their ai-controlled turreted mode, they would dramatically reduce their fire rate, to the point where it matches their current turreted and fixed DPS. Basically, their fire rate, and equivalently, their dps, would be cut in half while under AI control.

But lastly, multi-crew Gunners would be able to control them in their turreted mode while retaining their maximum fire rate. This allows players to design ships that function equally well in either Solo or multi crew mode, so multi crew is no longer discouraged. The only price, and I think this is more than enough, is the increased price of the more complicated turreted mounting system. If you really did want to make sure that this was not too good, you can add the additional Proviso of the weapon needing to be powered down in order to swap between fixed and turreted modes. That would prevent players from flipping it on Whenever there is a target directly in front of them, and then turning it off again when they move out of their line of sight. Either that, or you could add a small delay when the AI takes control, maybe doing a quick calibration circle of the turret before being able to fire.

The weakness of turrets has been a large part of why they have gone unused, and why multi-crew has likewise not seen much use. Especially with the upcoming Improvement to the experimental weapon cap, it would be awesome to at the same time open the door to a wider variety of multicrew chicanery!
 
I'd only like something like this if it came with turreted and gimballed weapons requiring better sensors- in that under AI control the turrets are accurate with higher grades / engineering.
 
I think I posted quite some time ago about having a “multi-purpose” mount that could act as Fixed / Gimballed or Turreted with the option to assign which mode it was in by Fire Group.

This would allow you to - for example - assign your weapons as Gimballed in your standard Fire Group but then switch to a “fixed” Fire Group when the enemy pops a heatsink.

For projectile weapons I think the suggestion to control the damage output by fire rate makes sense.

For laser weapons, a DPS drop could be explained by power being used to run the targeting motors and hence less power (damage) in the laser itself.

Either way, could be a useful for both multiplayer options and situational mode selection - without needing a refit.
 
The underlying concept of the weapon itself is for me sound, because more complex turrets (in exchange for being more flexible) should be heavier, consume more power and more prone to jamming / spoofing.

Yet the turrets in ED have the lowest PP/PD consumption usage while gimbals have the most with fixed a bit under the gimbals


Which leads me back to Elite. Turrented weapons have never seen very much use.

they do, but only on the whales.
I use them on my Cutter and i even use some on my Vette as secondaries (2x huge fixed long range burst lasers, 3x turreted efficient beams, 2x gimbaled corossive multicannons)

Turrets are intended to be used by beginner pilots or by any pilots while flying whales.
 
Yet the turrets in ED have the lowest PP/PD consumption usage while gimbals have the most with fixed a bit under the gimbals




they do, but only on the whales.
I use them on my Cutter and i even use some on my Vette as secondaries (2x huge fixed long range burst lasers, 3x turreted efficient beams, 2x gimbaled corossive multicannons)

Turrets are intended to be used by beginner pilots or by any pilots while flying whales.
The idea would be that it wouldn't take away from that, it would just make it more viable for other options, too, like having a copilot gunner.
 
I'd only like something like this if it came with turreted and gimballed weapons requiring better sensors- in that under AI control the turrets are accurate with higher grades / engineering.


What if sensor scanning angle determined how fast your sensors could swap from fixed mode, and how fast they could acquire target lock? Narrower sensors could result in them looking around a bit for their target.

That way players can choose, if they want turreted weapons, or if they just want fixed guns with multicrew potential.
 
What if sensor scanning angle determined how fast your sensors could swap from fixed mode, and how fast they could acquire target lock? Narrower sensors could result in them looking around a bit for their target.

That way players can choose, if they want turreted weapons, or if they just want fixed guns with multicrew potential.
Swapping modes IMO would not be an issue, its just the quality of the AI assisted gunnery- but I like the idea of scanning angles (well anything that makes sensors an actual consideration is good in my book).

More on topic I'd also have it that the time between going fixed > turret should be a few seconds (i.e. the time of deploying / retraction).
 
Turrets make no sense in Elite because All ships function as if they are fighters, as opposed to ships.

Since you brought up Freelancer, I would point out that there is a third person mode in that game that allowed you to use turrets (if you had them) in modes other forward fire.

Ships such as the Anaconda should have firing arcs that allow you to fire off bore in third person mode, similar to the camera suite. This would inherently be balanced against the fact that no turret would have a spherical field of fire, meaning that you could never bring all weapons to bear.
 
Swapping modes IMO would not be an issue, its just the quality of the AI assisted gunnery- but I like the idea of scanning angles (well anything that makes sensors an actual consideration is good in my book).

More on topic I'd also have it that the time between going fixed > turret should be a few seconds (i.e. the time of deploying / retraction).
Assuming that Ranking an NPC Gunner improved the RoF on Turreted weapons, I'd be concerned that just buying and Engineering an A rated Sensor would be to much of a shortcut. Requiring a lock for both Gimbled and Turreted weapons, and having the speed of that lock strongly impacted by the Sensor Suite might work as an alternative. I'll also throw in an older suggestion that NPC Gunners should ignore Chaff.
 
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Assuming that Ranking an NPC Gunner improved the RoF on Turreted weapons, I'd be concerned that just buying and Engineering an A rated Sensor would be to much of a shortcut. Requiring a lock for both Gimbled and Turreted weapons, and having the speed of that lock strongly impacted by the Sensor Suite might work as an alternative. I'll also throw in an older suggestion that NPC Gunners should ignore Chaff.
You could do it all really- NPC skills act as a top up modifier on top of an A rated sensor which has new engineering for chaff resistance for example. You could really make it really granular compared to the superficial we have now.

I'll also throw in an older suggestion that NPC Gunners should ignore Chaff.

:D I'd love a hierarchy of players being resistant to chaff (since they are aiming 'by eye'), NPC gunners being 100% at Elite but crap at Harmless (with equiv. jammability) and AI for lonesome pilots based on sensor grade (but that AI is penalised re jamming).
 
While all these ideas are good, I do think they're broad enough to imply their own thread. TBH, Sensors as a whole could use a decent rework, since right now you basically just choose A or D, and always long range. I'll think about it.

But honestly, I think this suggestion could go forward without that(at least, not right away), and could be very nice for the ongoing thargoid war, so it'd be nice to have it sooner, rather than later.
 
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