Question: why do we think support will end?

I personally believe Planet Zoo will make it to it's fifth anniversary before we get to that point and that will bring us halfway into the first of these release windows:

FY25 = 1st June 2024 - 31st May 2025, FY26 = 1st June 2025 - 31st May 2026
Oh, we all hope for that. I really hope that we can have 5 years of content. By 2024, I'm sure all the unique species will be used up, and in 2024 onwards we may get more "reskins/clones", like Indian leopard, or swift fox, etc.
Maybe there's hope for the beloved North American gray fox to come...
Recent hiring notices would seem to indicate there will be more games set in the PlanCo universe in the future. Could either/both of these be PlanCo titles? Only time will tell. For now they remain mystery projects.
Just curious, but do you have any theories of what future PlanCo games would revolve around?
Like, Planet Studio, Planet Aquarium, etc.
 
Here's my very uneducated opinion. I think we will get content through the rest of this year. Beyond that, it's a mystery. I could see it going either way. If we get aquariums and/or aviaries in this current edition, I think the game would naturally just have a longer lifespan. I think both packs would be huge hits. The likelihood of these two themes is a whole other can of worms. I think the causal players have definitely lost interest in Planet Zoo, players that aren't hardcore sim or animal nerds, so packs with not well-known animals may not be that interesting. I don't think that's a huge problem yet, but could be in the future. The 256-species cap limit could be an indicator of the game's lifespan, but isn't that something that was implemented recently?
 
Inevitably Frontier will make the decision to stop producing DLC at some point but whilst it remains sufficiently profitable there would seem to be little reason to stop.

Planet Coaster's death knell was probably more to do with porting the game and then afterwards, DLC to consoles than anything else. Porting Planet Zoo to consoles is going to be a complete none starter until most people make the leap to PS5 & Xbox Series X|S as there's no way they can port this game to the older generation consoles and the potential purchasers on the newer generation machines need to be at a level that justifies the expenditure.

I personally believe Planet Zoo will make it to it's fifth anniversary before we get to that point and that will bring us halfway into the first of these release windows:


FY25 = 1st June 2024 - 31st May 2025, FY26 = 1st June 2025 - 31st May 2026
I think the same like you! New generation is now really starting, probably in 1 or 2 years ps5 and xbox series x would be more accesible. Also we dont know how long will be this generation due the issues of the pandemic producing less consoles.
Also I think the game will hit its fifth year! And people probably obtain a new pc that will run the game more easy than in 2019.
 
Oh, we all hope for that. I really hope that we can have 5 years of content. By 2024, I'm sure all the unique species will be used up, and in 2024 onwards we may get more "reskins/clones", like Indian leopard, or swift fox, etc.
Maybe there's hope for the beloved North American gray fox to come...

Just curious, but do you have any theories of what future PlanCo games would revolve around?
Like, Planet Studio, Planet Aquarium, etc.
I'd love it if we got another 2 years of content, even without adding fully aquatic animals - but I'd like to see flying type birds for sure. Even if they don't actually fly in the game. Either way, 2 years of more content sounds great. I know back in the games release we were all hopeful for content from 2020 and 2021 and after that who knew. Then the game continued to be improved and profitable and adding 2022 seemed like it was more and more sure. That happened and it's quite likely we'll get content for all of 2023, something that 3 years ago I would have only thought out in my own wildest dreams, and almost surely an impossibility. And content for 2024 - thoughts in 2020 wasn't even thinking that could possibly happened, and to be honestly in 2021 there was not much thought to 2023 at very latest. We're to that point now. Another great year of sales and content for 2023 can make 2024 happen, and I'm so hopeful it will.

The funny thing is now I'm of the thought that 2023 for sure, 2024 maybe? and very unlikely 2025. That's a pattern that I've constantly had each year at the first the year. Current year -yes - Next year - maybe - 2 years down the road - probably not. So maybe at the start of 2024 I may have that same pattern and I may even be starting to think about 2026!. If the game continues to be profitable, content will continue to come. My main point earlier in this thread is that at some point the content isn't going to give them the same sales profit. These don't get made for free, and if they reach a point that it's no longer financially a profit, they'll stop (or if they're working on a current pack, hopefully finish that one out). Adding to that, yes, at some point the game will end. It's the nature of things. Nothing goes on forever in any industry.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
Just curious, but do you have any theories of what future PlanCo games would revolve around?
Like, Planet Studio, Planet Aquarium, etc.

Whilst it's possible there is an intent to utilise one of the many Planet ... trademarks they took out in 2018 it's just as likely they used it to hide "Planet Zoo" in plain sight as they knew people were monitoring their trademarks.

My personal theory would be for sequels rather than something completely new.

November 2024
  • Planet Zoo ported to PS5 / Xbox Series X|S (this would likely institute a deadline of no later than end of May 2024 for a final DLC)
  • Planet Coaster 2 (it's long overdue)
November 2025
  • Planet Zoo 2

Then maybe other PlanCo titles (from the list of trademarks) in subsequent years or JWE 3 if Universal decide to make another movie in a few years.
 
I already created an imagination of what planet aquarium would look like. So much potential that would be very similar to PZ but would be better suited for its own game.
Anyway, I am sure this year frontier will throw us something new. I was very surprised by the unexpected WE and definitely liked getting butterfly’s set of 5 instead of waiting an entire dlc just for another butterfly. With the WE being the new thing, I wonder what the big thing in 23 will be like
 
If we don’t get fully aquatic animals in planet zoo I’m 100% going to hope and dream for Planet Aquarium until it happens
I'd actually rather a dedicated game for aquariums, making working interiors is pretty hard in planet zoo. Making an interior look good is an even harder task without 50 spot lights to create a half decently lit aquarium building. A game which has major steps in improving interior design and usability along with complex tank mechanics would be great to have.
 
I'd actually rather a dedicated game for aquariums, making working interiors is pretty hard in planet zoo. Making an interior look good is an even harder task without 50 spot lights to create a half decently lit aquarium building. A game which has major steps in improving interior design and usability along with complex tank mechanics would be great to have.
Honestly the same. I’m not against them being added to planet zoo, but if we get content like we have so far, even 4 packs worth would be about 25-30 animals. At very most.

Versus a separate game that could have twice that number in a base game and then several years of additional content. The earth is more than 2/3rds water and should be represented by more than a couple dozen species.

Best case thing for me is maybe a handful in planet zoo and then an additional separate game. But I doubt they’d do that for just one contents worth of animals.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
Thought it may be worth pointing out this line from the half year report Frontier published to the Stock Market today:
For FY25 we have two new game releases planned, with F1® Manager 2024 plus an own-IP creative management simulation game.

Does "own-IP creative management simulation game", launching in FY25 (1st June 2024 - 31st May 2025) sound like it could be a game set in the PlanCo universe?
 
Thought it may be worth pointing out this line from the half year report Frontier published to the Stock Market today:


Does "own-IP creative management simulation game", launching in FY25 (1st June 2024 - 31st May 2025) sound like it could be a game set in the PlanCo universe?
'Creative management simulation' definitely sounds like an expansion to the Planco universe
 
Does "own-IP creative management simulation game", launching in FY25 (1st June 2024 - 31st May 2025) sound like it could be a game set in the PlanCo universe?
I'm pretty sure that will mean another Planet game, PlanCo or otherwise.

For me that kinda solidifies that Planet Zoo will get one more year of support, but afterwards it is probably going to stop. I don't see them supporting two Planet games at the same time ( Planet Coaster isn't actively expanded upon so I'm not counting the pass and the console edition), with on top of that the F1 games, Warhammer being released in FY24 and possible support for JWE2 after 2023.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
At their current hiring rate (and acquisition of Complex Games) they likely have close to 900 staff by now (at least double their staffing from when Planet Coaster came out).

There is absolutely no reason why they can't support multiple titles with DLC if it is profitable to do so. Delivering DLC on a regular basis does not require anywhere near the same level of staffing as developing the game itself. 25% can stay behind to work on DLC whilst the other 75% move on to the next project. The 25% shortfall on the next project is then filled with new hires and the cycle repeats.
 
There is absolutely no reason why they can't support multiple titles with DLC if it is profitable to do so.
As a dev I see multiple reasons that I've mentioned earlier so I'm not repeating myself here 😅 But besides those that I already mentioned, looking just at the number of staff is a big trap tons of projects fall into. Like, we have entire studies, laws and books about this stuff. You need to look at which level that staff is, you need to have an idea of the skill set that comes with your staff (character designers vs scenery designers), you have things like increasing salaries which might mean that a dev gets too expensive to work on a certain project (happened to me for instance), just overal interests of your staff etc. etc. etc.

25% can stay behind to work on DLC whilst the other 75% move on to the next project. The 25% shortfall on the next project is then filled with new hires and the cycle repeats.
Just to give an example here, this is really not that simple as you describe it here. If you want to have some form of continuous support, you can't switch up teams as easily as you describe it. Depending on the complexity of a project it can take 3 months before a new developer reaches an output of 80%. And depending on your hires (most of the time the hires you have are junior devs, medior devs are hard to find and senior devs are extremely hard to find), some of them won't ever reach an output of 80% in the first few years. I've seen plenty of projects get severely delayed or go massively over budget by switching up teams the way you describe it,simply because of how complex such things become in practice.

In the end, decisions regarding support are never simple and are influenced by a multitude of parameters, many of which we don't know anything about and the ones (beside profit) we have an idea of we have absolutely no insight on. So I often see people say "I see no reason", but that doesn't mean there isn't a reason, it simply means we oftentimes can't think of the reason(s).

(I really don't want to come across as hostile or know-it-all here, I sincerely apologize if I do, I've went back and forth on a lot of this and rephrased a lot, I'm just weighing in from the perspective I have.)
 
I think it's possible that 2023 is the last full year of content - and hopefully that at least - considering the news from the financial report. Still going to hope for another pack or two in 2024 though. At this point though, I'd think we'll probably not see marine species in the game. If they wanted to get started on that, to give good representation, they'd almost have to exclusively release those types of species, and I don't think that will happen.
 
I'm pretty sure we're gonna get 4 more packs.
If it's really the last year, they'll wanna end in a bang, right?

Last year was the WE. 2021 was restaurants (kinda meh, but unique in the game). 2020 was deep diving.

I don't think 2023 will get a whole new feature that'll bring a host of animals, but what are some ideas to end the year without Frontier "needing" (for lack of a better word) to release new content revolved around said feature?
 
I'm pretty sure we're gonna get 4 more packs.
If it's really the last year, they'll wanna end in a bang, right?

Last year was the WE. 2021 was restaurants (kinda meh, but unique in the game). 2020 was deep diving.

I don't think 2023 will get a whole new feature that'll bring a host of animals, but what are some ideas to end the year without Frontier "needing" (for lack of a better word) to release new content revolved around said feature?
My thoughts are what so many of us are already coming up with, birds with flying animations in the Walkthrough Exhibits. And hopefully, but no guarantee, more like the butterflies than the bat - several species of the same type of bird. Even just 2 species of the same type would work for me, although I'd prefer more Macaws specifically. There's so much to choose from - my foremost thoughts, Eagles, Macaws, Cockatoos and Toucans, then a second tier of wants with Hornbills, Kingfishers (Kookaburra), Woodpeckers and Owls, and a final tier of Falcons, Hawks, Humingbirds and even Lorikeets - edited the last one, I knew there was one I was forgetting!.

That's not even touching on the waterfowl, wading birds, and more terrestrial birds like Roadrunners and Secretary Birds....but then again the common was gears towards what animals would revolved around a feature.
 
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Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
As a dev I see multiple reasons that I've mentioned earlier so I'm not repeating myself here 😅 But besides those that I already mentioned, looking just at the number of staff is a big trap tons of projects fall into. Like, we have entire studies, laws and books about this stuff. You need to look at which level that staff is, you need to have an idea of the skill set that comes with your staff (character designers vs scenery designers), you have things like increasing salaries which might mean that a dev gets too expensive to work on a certain project (happened to me for instance), just overal interests of your staff etc. etc. etc.


Just to give an example here, this is really not that simple as you describe it here. If you want to have some form of continuous support, you can't switch up teams as easily as you describe it. Depending on the complexity of a project it can take 3 months before a new developer reaches an output of 80%. And depending on your hires (most of the time the hires you have are junior devs, medior devs are hard to find and senior devs are extremely hard to find), some of them won't ever reach an output of 80% in the first few years. I've seen plenty of projects get severely delayed or go massively over budget by switching up teams the way you describe it,simply because of how complex such things become in practice.

In the end, decisions regarding support are never simple and are influenced by a multitude of parameters, many of which we don't know anything about and the ones (beside profit) we have an idea of we have absolutely no insight on. So I often see people say "I see no reason", but that doesn't mean there isn't a reason, it simply means we oftentimes can't think of the reason(s).

(I really don't want to come across as hostile or know-it-all here, I sincerely apologize if I do, I've went back and forth on a lot of this and rephrased a lot, I'm just weighing in from the perspective I have.)

Hey there, I'm not really trying to disprove Brook's Law. I'm aware that adding new devs to a project can actually slow things down as it requires more experienced devs to show them the ropes thereby reducing the productivity of the team as a whole. I'm not suggesting the new hires go on to a well oiled machine like Planet Zoo. I'm suggesting they predominantly go on to projects that are 2+ years on from an initial release and those that may need to rotate in to Planet Zoo to replace any potential shrinkage are already experienced developers who may also want a change of scenery.

There's no reason to feel anxious in having a conversation with me. If I'm engaged in a conversation I'm not acting in the capacity of a moderator, nor can I do so. I don't want you to feel you have to step on eggshells if you think I'm wrong. Tell me straight, I don't bite.

Although when it comes to my assumption that DLC will continue for some time, it appears I am correct:

c0yA7gj.png

Source

The word "throughout" would typically mean the entirety of the calendar year, so a further 4 DLC should be expected at minimum.
 
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