Elite Dangerous Blocking System: A Call for Change

[Agony_Aunt]

I mean... I can't argue with this. Blocking is a thing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I've been blocked by half this forum for being an apologist for the gankers.

Well, if its any consolation, i don't think i've blocked you, I don't think i've ever met you in game, but there again, i haven't blocked anyone for killing me. I think my block list is quite sparse. Maybe someone i suspected of cheating i ran into once and someone who took a disagreement we were having on the forums in-game and tried to prove their point by killing me in game (because we all know, killing someone in a game proves your forum argument /s).

 

[Shabine]

Well, if its any consolation, i don't think i've blocked you, I don't think i've ever met you in game, but there again, i haven't blocked anyone for killing me.

I would never kill you. Not only do I quite like you based on how and what you write, I never kill anyone these days. I just bother Alec Turner about what's coming up in Buckyball and quietly tinker with my Couriers and Eagles to make them go faster. And nobody ever kills me any more, because I don't care how dirty the drives on your FDL are, you aren't catching me when I'm boosting to 885 and spinning off into the void.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Although I see what you're saying, I don't really consider anything that can be lost in ED "a great deal". Rebuys are dirt cheap, and if you do die with something very expensive on you like a bunch of exploration data or commodities, that's kinda the risk you took given what you knew could happen in Open.

Yes, so players such as myself perform activities that involve many hours of effort in solo mode. I have no big issue with this. When in human space I only go in Open if I am doing combat related activities and willing to have my time diverted away from whatever I was trying to do. I have a reasonable ship and not carrying the crown jewels with me.

And as mentioned by others the discussion easily gets turned into a solo vs open debate.

 

[Shabine]

Yes, so players such as myself perform activities that involve many hours of effort in solo mode. I have no big issue with this. When in human space I only go in Open if I am doing combat related activities and willing to have my time diverted away from whatever I was trying to do. I have a reasonable ship and not carrying the crown jewels with me.

And as mentioned by others the discussion easily gets turned into a solo vs open debate.

I do things very much the same way you do. It's that old poker adige; never play with a penny more than you are prepared to lose.

And while these threads do turn into Open vs Solo, I feel like the real issue is motivation. The motivation to gank, and the motivation to block. If that's what this thread was about, it wouldn't be a retread of the same old nonsense.

Or maybe it would. Hell, I dunno.

 

[Screemonster]

It could help, but not much. This is the fantasy land Star Citizen backers are living in, because they believe CIG when they say they will create an environment with really good crime and punishment system that will ensure all can enjoy the game they want to.

from what I've heard from people playing the game, SC has a serious community issue with PvP too. Try suggesting they nerf the omniscient bounty mission marker that gives away a wanted player's location infallably and cannot be deceived. There was recent drama when a bunch of players boarded someone's ship and the guy kept respawning in his own medbay and suicide-rushing them instead of respawning at port, then reported them all for spawn-camping and harassment, and they were the ones that got warnings for it.

Even when the servers reset every few hours and your progress is being wiped anyway so you lose nothing, the vitriol never goes away. Especially if it's someone that bought a big expensive ship and still got dunked - they paid, but they did not win, and they get really mad about that.

 

[YajM]

Remove blocking and most go to solo. And then we get another "Why doesn't anyone play in open" thread.
ED gives absolutely every advantage to random assaults. The attacker risks nothing. They decide if the encounter happens, where it happens, when it happens, and with whom. The defender cannot gain in any way. At absolute best, they lose the time it takes to shake the interdiction (and get back on course, not trivial in a trade ship). Worst case can be hours, days, or more of work.
Even if the defender wins, what have they won? Nothing. And they have still lost the time.

 

[Screemonster]

Well, if its any consolation, i don't think i've blocked you, I don't think i've ever met you in game, but there again, i haven't blocked anyone for killing me. I think my block list is quite sparse. Maybe someone i suspected of cheating i ran into once and someone who took a disagreement we were having on the forums in-game and tried to prove their point by killing me in game (because we all know, killing someone in a game proves your forum argument /s).

The only guy I've ever blocked was because he was spamming nonsense in system chat.

It was at the same CG that someone else was accusing other people of being horrible griefing gankers because he joined a CZ on the other side as them and they (shock, horror) blew him up.

This is why I don't think C&P will ever be an effective solution - because people will scream "ganker" at even the most blatant, obvious, cut-and-dry "bro you signed up for team deathmatch, you don't get to complain when the other team.. death... matched.. you." To some people, no situation will satisfy them. Meanwhile, as we see in EvE, the existence of harsh punishment after the fact doesn't stop people ganking, nor does it do anything to solve the problem at the gankee's end - like, they still got blown up and lost their rebuy. The ganker taking an inconvenience that they went into the exchange fully expecting and prepared to pay doesn't bring their stuff back.

 

[Shabine]

The attacker risks nothing. They decide if the encounter happens, where it happens, when it happens, and with whom. The defender cannot gain in any way. At absolute best, they lose the time it takes to shake the interdiction (and get back on course, not trivial in a trade ship). Worst case can be hours, days, or more of work. Even if the defender wins, what have they won? Nothing.

The implication here is that whether something is ventured or not, nothing is gained by either party. This is not strictly true. The attacker gains experience fighting another player and a kill. The defender gains experience fighting another player and, potentially, a kill. That's the reward.

For me personally, getting killed a lot is how I lost what EVE and Tarkov players commonly refer to as "the shakes". I stopped freaking out because I was being attacked and instead turned my thoughts to countering and avoidance. I wasn't helpless any more, because I'd been here before, and I was prepared to learn from it. For what it's worth, dying in fires has benefitted me. I stopped becoming attached to my pixels and started rigging them for survival.

But as this thread has highlighted, you can either adapt or block. I prefer the former, but the latter is always available to risk-averse commanders who want to play in Open but shun conflict that is forced on them by the other denizens of Open.

 

[Darrack]

The attacker gains experience fighting another player and a kill

Anyone who thinks they will learn anything attacking a trading ship in a combat murder boat needs to get out of their basement for a spell.

O7

 

[Shabine]

Anyone who thinks they will learn anything attacking a trading ship in a combat murder boat needs to get out of their basement for a spell.

If you've never killed anyone before, it's a great place to start, because the people who know what they're doing will just eat you alive.

 

[Screemonster]

Anyone who thinks they will learn anything attacking a trading ship in a combat murder boat needs to get out of their basement for a spell.

O7

This is why I did my pirating in a T7.

1: nobody sees it coming
2: it's more than adequate for the task holy damn do I have no respect for people who bring a meta pvp boat to club seals. Talk about using a nuke to crack a nut.

 

[YajM]

The implication here is that whether something is ventured or not, nothing is gained by either party. This is not strictly true. The attacker gains experience fighting another player and a kill. The defender gains experience fighting another player and, potentially, a kill. That's the reward.

I've been killed by gankers, pirates, thargoids, and cops. In a ship and on foot. Another one isn't a reward. Besides which, there's very little to possibly learn from being an enforced helpless victim.

For me personally, getting killed a lot is how I lost what EVE and Tarkov players commonly refer to as "the shakes". I stopped freaking out because I was being attacked and instead turned my thoughts to countering and avoidance. I wasn't helpless any more, because I'd been here before, and I was prepared to learn from it. For what it's worth, dying in fires has benefitted me. I stopped becoming attached to my pixels and started rigging them for survival.

But as this thread has highlighted, you can either adapt or block. I prefer the former, but the latter is always available to risk-averse commanders who want to play in Open but shun conflict that is forced on them by the other denizens of Open.

Hence if blocking is removed, open gets emptier.

 

[Darrack]

If you've never killed anyone before, it's a great place to start, because the people who know what they're doing will just eat you alive.

How many times have these brave gankers attacked my Vette in SD? Zero
My trader? dont get me started.
Im a seasoned PvPer (not in ED), Murder boat vs Trader isnt PvP.

O7

 

[Screemonster]

in SD

 

[Shabine]

Hence if blocking is removed, open gets emptier.

Oh, 100%. I'm all for blocking. Block away. In fact, play Roblox and build something with building blocks while you're at it.

Murder boat vs Trader isnt PvP.

But it is, even if you refuse to call it that. It's lazy. It's dirty. It's quite possibly the first time that unengineered murder boat has been used by the aspiring ganker (because, let's face it, some boats are made for killing right out of the box). And if it isn't and the ganker is just some slack-jawed murder hobo, well, they live here too. And what they are doing is engaging in PvP. You may be an unwilling participant, but guess what? A player is versusing a player.

That's a brand new word, by the way. "Versusing". I'm registering the trademark as we speak.

 

[Darrack]

So we are excluded from SD unless in a combat ship?

the first time that unengineered murder boat has been used by the aspiring ganker

Yeah righto

O7

 

[Shabine]

Yeah righto

For what it's worth, the first time I killed someone in ED, they were attempting to land on a planet in DBX. Full exploration loadout.

I was in a Viper 4. A-rated.

And like I said...

And if it isn't and the ganker is just some slack-jawed murder hobo, well, they live here too. And what they are doing is engaging in PvP. You may be an unwilling participant, but guess what? A player is versusing a player.

Again, you can refuse to call it PvP if you like because it doesn't meet the standard of "honorable, mutual combat". It's still just PvP. Dirty, lazy, pointless PvP, but PvP nonetheless. When we discuss PvP in any game, even the lowest forms of it are included.

 

[Darrack]

For what it's worth, the first time I killed someone in ED, they were attempting to land on a planet in DBX. Full exploration loadout.

And what exactly did you learn/gain from that?

Give you an example:

In my previous job, which i did for most of my life i had to 'look after people', im pretty decent at martial arts (full contact kyokushinkai) and back in the day was one of the first heavyweight kickboxing champions in the UK, im the wrong side of 50 now and have let myself go a bit (cough) but i still do some teaching to pass on my experience and skills.
What would be the point of me sparring with a 20 year old white belt and knocking him out?
Just to feel good?

Seriously give your head a wobble

O7

 

[Screemonster]

So we are excluded from SD unless in a combat ship?

If you go to a high traffic system, aguably the high-traffic system, in an open-world game with unrestricted PvP, which consistently tops the inara security reports along with deciat and whatever the week's CG is, then... yeah, you kinda are.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, but we should play the game we have rather than the game we want.

 

[Shabine]

And what exactly did you learn/gain from that?

She called me a bad word. I admitted that I was scum. I joined her corporation in EVE, and we still talk on Discord. Her name is Ivy and she lives in Scotland.

That's what I gained.

What would be the point of me sparring with a 20 year old white belt and knocking him out?
Just to feel good?

Seriously give your head a wobble

I think it is you who needs to give your head a wobble, sir!

I have repeatedly stated that seal clubbing is lazy, dirty and pointless. That said, getting clubbed a lot made me less afraid of it. Way less afraid. Then I wanted revenge, but I couldn't get it. So I clubbed a bunch of people myself. Then I lost respect for it because I met people who built ships that absolutely melt faces and expected me to keep up, and they had no interest in clubbing seals. So I did that and I never clubbed again.

What we learn from the callousness of others is how predictable they are. And we lose our attachment to our pixels. These are good things, Darrack. I mean, maybe not for everyone, but they were for me. And it was all inarguably players versus players. It's a game. It facilitates adversary in Open.

Like @Screemonster just said, "we should play the game we have rather than the game we want".