Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Complex. Pishposh. Every man has inventory and a gun. Nothing complicated about that. And the 6000 cups I hid under Mole's bed are quite simple. too.
Umm, no. Imagine everyone is working on the same Google Doc, but there are thousands of users doing it at the same time, each making tens of modifications per second. You want to make sure that the document still makes sense, that there are no conflicting modifications and that at the same time everyone has a real-time, consistent view on that doc.

This is a complex problem, to the point of being rather unsolvable in practical terms, given all the requirements and constraints.
 
Umm, no. Imagine everyone is working on the same Google Doc, but there are thousands of users doing it at the same time, each making tens of modifications per second. You want to make sure that the document still makes sense, that there are no conflicting modifications and that at the same time everyone has a real-time, consistent view on that doc.

This is a complex problem, to the point of being rather unsolvable in practical terms, given all the requirements and constraints.
blplplplp All you need do is lock the cell that is being written to. Ease as pease. CIG can hire me as design professional now that I hand out these design solutions like nothing.
 
The funny thing is, if they messed up the implementation in a particular way, having "previous snapshots" available won't do much. In order for snapshots to be valuable as a point of recovery, they need to be consistent as well (i.e. not contain nonsense data). This is not something that relies only on the fact that snapshots were made.

This is where the complexity of what they are trying to do lies - in making sure that a bunch of complex state that is modified by thousands of users and updated in real time does not devolve into a furball of complete nonsense.

It is very easy to maintain "large" state. It is very complex to maintain complex and ever changing one if it is done in a distributed system, regardless of the size of the data.

As always, I have zero confidence that CI thought about anything beyond the most naive happy path.
I have the strangest feeling that star citizen won't pass beyond 3.18...certainly not this year or going into next... despite whatever unrealistic targets the marketing and management teams have thrown the development teams under the bus with. All this happy talk of 3.19 and any form of progression from this point is rampant dollar focused speculation by an upper management led marketing team out of control...

I've never seen the PU so broken, not in the many years I've been a part of it. I should caveat that with; as backers, we were all aware (and accepted) that the addition of PES with the 3.18 branch would break stuff, perhaps for some considerable time until the devs learned how it would work/not work on the live servers and got on top of it... that was a given...but this massively premature forced release onto the live servers has broken everything, not necessarily on the client, but server side and entire backend from the authentication servers onwards.

Despite popular opinion, Ci~G has more than it's fair share of utterly mismanaged but very talented and passionate devs...but they're all being ritually sacrificed on the altar of Christ Roberts by a marketing team structured around online digital sales and not game development...that's my tuppence worth 🤷‍♂️
 
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This is a complex problem, to the point of being rather unsolvable in practical terms, given all the requirements and constraints.
Video games are at best super light into distributed systems. Server-based games have no reason to disagree with themselves, P2P games side-step any hard problems like by having an authoritative host or simply allowing the impossible to occur. No game ponders which of the three generals was teabagging, devs have a hard enough time just with elevators.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
but they're all being ritually sacrificed on the altar of Christ Roberts by a marketing team structured around online digital sales and not game development...that's my tuppence worth 🤷‍♂️
Remember that, as incompetent as CR might be, by now Turbulent’s say in the work and the decisions to publish is probably very significant. Turbulent needs to start to be recognized not just as the magic Canadians that aced the store front but also for their failed 3.18.
 
Remember by now Turbulent’s say in the work and the decisions to publish is probably very significant. Turbulent needs to start to be recognized not just as the magic Canadians that aced the store front but also for their failed 3.18.
Turbulent have been given a poisoned chalice by Ci~G...or whoever forced the transition from the Sqn 404 focused gang of Roberts onto them. 3.18 and PES (add server meshing to that) under the stewardship of Ci~G was going nowhere in a development sense, Turbulent either belatedly volunteered or were pressganged into furthering development on it then were pressured into a premature release schedule by Ci~G's marketing snakes well before it was ready...it's not difficult to work that one out.

After all, the Empire of Roberts are perfectly happy to directly or indirectly throw absolutely anyone else under the bus except themselves...it's not the first time 🤷‍♂️
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Turbulent have been given a poisoned chalice by Ci~G...or whoever forced the transition from the Sqn 404 focused gang of Roberts onto them. 3.18 and PES (add server meshing to that) under the stewardship of Ci~G was going nowhere in a development sense, Turbulent either belatedly volunteered or were pressganged into furthering development on it then were pressured into a premature release schedule by Ci~G's marketing snakes well before it was ready...it's not difficult to work that one out.

After all, the church of Christ Roberts are perfectly happy to throw anyone else under the bus except themselves...it's not the first time 🤷‍♂️
Either way I would pay for an Idris to be a fly on the wall and see the likely blaming game going on internally as we speak 😋 🍿
 
I am afraid it is their project and their golden goose. They hold all the cards.
Give the idiot savant his 30+ year in the making vanity project of Wing commander 'x' and totally outsource and dissociate star citizen (and it's funding) from it. As long as Roberts continues to freely and blatantly strip star citizen of finances and resources to feed his interactive movie vision of hubris, the PU (which we're all paying for) is going nowhere but downwards. Where the hell is Microsoft when we really need them? They're buying Activision and CoD fer goodness sake :rolleyes:
 
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I have the strangest feeling that star citizen won't pass beyond 3.18...certainly not this year or going into next...

Well you called it right last year on all the fundamentals. Definitely wouldn't bet against you ;)

It would certainly be a classically CIG 2023 😁. (Missing out on yet another Pyro launch, even after deciding to bodge it in pre-Meshing-miracles. And the PU spending the whole year tied up in spaghetti, and database dramas ;)).

Despite popular opinion, Ci~G has more than it's fair share of utterly mismanaged but very talented and passionate devs...but they're all being ritually sacrificed on the altar of Christ Roberts by a marketing team structured around online digital sales and not game development...that's my tuppence worth 🤷‍♂️

Yeah was just pondering on this. It feels like all of their competent devs are just locked in a perpetual fight to get even 10% of Chris's grand objectives over the line. Doesn't really bode well for the project. Or the devs :/

(And all the while you can feel the trickle up of babby devs learning nothing and being promoted perpetually towards the vacuum at the top...)
 
Server-based games have no reason to disagree with themselves...

And yet...


;)


Server-based games have no reason to disagree with themselves... simply allow the impossible to occur... devs have a hard enough time just with elevators.

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Well you called it right last year on all the fundamentals. Definitely wouldn't bet against you ;)

It would certainly be a classically CIG 2023 😁. (Missing out on yet another Pyro launch, even after deciding to bodge it in pre-Meshing-miracles. And the PU spending the whole year tied up in spaghetti, and database dramas ;)).



Yeah was just pondering on this. It feels like all of their competent devs are just locked in a perpetual fight to get even 10% of Chris's grand objectives over the line. Doesn't really bode well for the project. Or the devs :/

(And all the while you can feel the trickle up of babby devs learning nothing and being promoted perpetually towards the vacuum at the top...)
As for Pyro...I reckon it'll be shoved out on different (separate) servers but included early next year before any such thing as static server meshing T0 is introduced. There'll be a main menu choice, logging in to Stanton or Pyro but certainly no in game transitional 'time tunnel' space vortex jump points involved between Stanton and Pyro. Call it a hunch :)
 
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Despite popular opinion, Ci~G has more than it's fair share of utterly mismanaged but very talented and passionate devs...but they're all being ritually sacrificed on the altar of Christ Roberts by a marketing team structured around online digital sales and not game development...that's my tuppence worth 🤷‍♂️

Remember that, as incompetent as CR might be, by now Turbulent’s say in the work and the decisions to publish is probably very significant. Turbulent needs to start to be recognized not just as the magic Canadians that aced the store front but also for their failed 3.18.
By the way, I'm quite intrigued by the choice of wording like "turbulence" in their apology :)
This Week in Star Citizen

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David Braben was posting on the forums 48 hours after the release of Odyssey. Can someone point me to Chris' posts?
Although the idiot Roberts is one of the original kickstarter backers for ED (same as DB is an original kickstarter backer for SC)... and probably paid a tad more than most for the mutual show of support, I don't think he has a forum account here :whistle:
 
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