The Thargoid War: Thoughts and Feelings

I only have one question. Why did they lower the price for destroying : Orthrus ?
Initially, the payout was too high for an interceptor that:
  • is passive and won't shoot back
  • has shields and a non-regenerative hull
  • has near bond total of that of a hydra but with a low skill ceiling
But later, because of the introduction of the Experimental Stabilizers, making AX combat easier, they again lowered the bond payout.

Now Galnet / Frontier Developments have made Orthrus bonds increase because they want people to look into Alert systems. So the history of the Orthrus bond amount started from 50 Mil, then nerfed to 30 Mil, then slightly nerfed to 25 Mil, and then recently rebalanced it to 40 Mil because they suggested people to go look into Alert systems.
 
Initially, the payout was too high for an interceptor that:
  • is passive and won't shoot back
  • has shields and a non-regenerative hull
  • has near bond total of that of a hydra but with a low skill ceiling
But later, because of the introduction of the Experimental Stabilizers, making AX combat easier, they again lowered the bond payout.

Now Galnet / Frontier Developments have made Orthrus bonds increase because they want people to look into Alert systems. So the history of the Orthrus bond amount started from 50 Mil, then nerfed to 30 Mil, then slightly nerfed to 25 Mil, and then recently rebalanced it to 40 Mil because they suggested people to go look into Alert systems.
I understand that, but if they had not immediately lowered the price, the situation in the war would not have come to this point.
 
Much of what's wrong with the "Focus on the Orthrus" messaging has been covered. Such as low spawn rate giving boring gameplay, but this is made worse by needing to avoid Guardian weapons to keep killing them (if you can find them). For me that means that if I want to defend an alert I have to choose between a loadout for Orthrus or another for working the signal sources and interdictions. I can't productively look for an Orthruss signal source and then jump into a different source if no sources for orthrus are found.

I'm not motivated by in game cash so the level of payout is irrelevent. I'd rather have a low payout and high spawn rate so that I'm not wasting my gaming time waiting for an infrequent event. I've stuck at it for 14 weeks so far and I'm not in the mood for a lot of waiting around doing nothing. So if "they" want me to focus on kiling something specific then give me plenty of that something to kill.
 
We're looking forwards to a more significant balancing update should the suggestion to have players look into Alert system be more impactful.
Are we? (I assume the "we" that you refer to is a group who have consented to your expressing their desire)

The Thargoid war is tedious, hunting Orthrus would be even more of the same.

I'll go back to hunting Thargoids when all of the bounties are returned to their pre-nerf amounts, maybe... (preferably with a new magic ship that is fun to fly and has some resistance to shutdown, Caustic etc. and is fast & agile. As that is unlikely to ever happen...)
 
This dialogue, regardless of it being made by Aegis OR Frontier Developments, is insulting to the hundreds of player CMDRs that put in multiple hours to fightback the Thargoids. Notably it was mentioned both in Stream and in Galnet, that "there is something we're missing about alert systems," and along the lines of "finding something where the Thargoids are going to be." The simple notion to suggest the community, who've spent hours of doing gameplay mechanics research, from a game developer that tells us barely nothing until it launches, that what we are doing is inefficient and that we should look elsewhere to do it better, is just abysmally ignorant.

Nothing is insulting.
I'm one of the CMDRs that racked thousands of kills fighting back the Thargoids and i'm not feeling that i'm being insulted by the current narrative
So you should not make blanket statements regarding what other CMDRs should feel about the game.

Anyway, if you do feel like that, my only suggestion would be to take a step back from the current narrative or from Elite in its entirety.

And FDev rarely did any handholding for the narrative developments in the game.
It is expected the players will figure things out but this may take time.
If you really want any handholding, maybe you should be playing something else. Maybe a game with a more or less linear narrative and with a precise engame.
 
Nothing is insulting.
I'm one of the CMDRs that racked thousands of kills fighting back the Thargoids and i'm not feeling that i'm being insulted by the current narrative
So you should not make blanket statements regarding what other CMDRs should feel about the game.

Anyway, if you do feel like that, my only suggestion would be to take a step back from the current narrative or from Elite in its entirety.

And FDev rarely did any handholding for the narrative developments in the game.
It is expected the players will figure things out but this may take time.
If you really want any handholding, maybe you should be playing something else. Maybe a game with a more or less linear narrative and with a precise engame.
There is no blanket statement made by the fellow Cmdr.
I and many, many MANY others think likewise.
It's not because you're, apparently, either an exception to the rule or just damn right masochist that you should ignore our viewpoint either and try to downplay it in apassive-aggresive way...as if it was just "an ignorant blanket statement" because THAT would be ignorant and a blanket statement about huge numbers who I know don't think like you. How ironic don't you think? rofl!
There's nothing to figure out except that there seem to be a huge gap between FDev understanding of what the game needs, and what the hardcore player base seems to hope.

I don't see anything more linear and boring than this so-called "narrative" (what a joke, sorry).
In IM2D's posts, I don't see any need nor demand for "hand-holding". No, he's talking sense.
 
Elite's approach leans more towards amputating all your limbs instead of hand holding.

There are plenty of grand strategy games that show you all the numbers and all the calculations that go into a battle and still manage to be totally impenetrable.
 
There is no blanket statement made by the fellow Cmdr.
I and many, many MANY others think likewise.
It's not because you're, apparently, either an exception to the rule or just damn right masochist that you should ignore our viewpoint either and try to downplay it in apassive-aggresive way...as if it was just "an ignorant blanket statement" because THAT would be ignorant and a blanket statement about huge numbers who I know don't think like you. How ironic don't you think? rofl!
There's nothing to figure out except that there seem to be a huge gap between FDev understanding of what the game needs, and what the hardcore player base seems to hope.

I don't see anything more linear and boring than this so-called "narrative" (what a joke, sorry).
In IM2D's posts, I don't see any need nor demand for "hand-holding". No, he's talking sense.

Such dramatism

Engaging with the current narrative and feeling insulted?
Then stop doing it. You and the many, many MANY others that think likewise...
 
Such dramatism

Engaging with the current narrative and feeling insulted?
Then stop doing it. You and the many, many MANY others that think likewise...
Oh stop white knighting this conversation.

That was only criticism over the fact that Orthrus spawn rates are abysmal, and it makes clearing out alert systems not anywhere more meaningful than sticking to combating systems in invasion. If there is a more meaningful impact to do something right, the updates for Experimental Weapon stabilizers or the introduction of Caustics, is something the community has been applauding the work done by Frontier. Even the arrival of Update 14, many players who've been starved of content has been giving a purpose, a purpose to establish a defensive force to pushback the Thargoids, has generally been a positive update.

Subjectively, some players orienting in combat may say, "this update is the best update that Elite Dangerous has offered," and have explorers and traders that don't like combat might say, "this update sucks because it doesn't add to the narrative of trading or exploration". But pulling out a "dramatism" card means you don't like it when people are criticizing a game that you like it in its current phase and that is the root problem of how you are counterarguing our feedback. The reason why there is such a feedback in the first place is that people are not happy with how "little" the balancing act has actually impacted systems in alert.

Will there be a small group who's enjoying the narrative looking and finding Orthrus? Absolutely. Am I discrediting their work which can help with the war? I certainly don't care how they'll waste their time in the game, but I'm not ignorant of their attempt to help with the war effort. Most players don't have hours upon hours as those who live rent free unemployed or those who are retired and therefore it makes hunting the Orthrus, simply put, not worth their time in comparison to a player with tons of tons of hours to waste in this game.

Nothing is insulting.
I'm one of the CMDRs that racked thousands of kills fighting back the Thargoids and i'm not feeling that i'm being insulted by the current narrative
So you should not make blanket statements regarding what other CMDRs should feel about the game.

Anyway, if you do feel like that, my only suggestion would be to take a step back from the current narrative or from Elite in its entirety.

And FDev rarely did any handholding for the narrative developments in the game.
It is expected the players will figure things out but this may take time.
If you really want any handholding, maybe you should be playing something else. Maybe a game with a more or less linear narrative and with a precise engame.
You see, "we" refer to those who have been coordinating with other people since the start of the war. The scientists and researchers behind looking into the mechanics of the Thargoid War update, who've put their man hours outside of IRL priorities, to find something that works for most players involved in the frontlines.

Although I and many others who found that the recent small update has been meaningless, its criticism to the fact that, IF Frontier is suggesting / pleading that we start looking into alert systems, they will need to do better. Orthrus spawn rates are abysmal and players don't want to spend countless hours finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, (Happy St. Patrick's Day) and then in the end only have found a few. Its not worth it and most of the defense force, guaranteed, will not pour their time into doing alert system for the sake of the narrative. Frontier is notorious for acknowledging demanding feedback and this is why the post was made.

The suggestion of looking into Alert systems have been noted three times already. Once in stream, once through a Forums page, and once through a Galnet article. Its clearly indicating that Frontier recommends searching in those systems. When Derin came to the livestream, he had discussed little scenarios that were put into place for us to discover, although they do little for the progression, subjectively some people felt that those QoL provides a backstory to the situation while others couldn't care less.

The point was at least there was content in that update and that is something the recent update didn't do so well in. They upped the pay of the Orthrus and expect us to do better. The audacity to change the payout value in hopes to rebalance and allowing CMDRs to look into Alert systems is insulting.
 
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Being insulted by the game and the devs is clearly somewhat of a hyperbole..
It's not.
We were asked for feedback. It was given. And now the response we've received is "Aegis" telling us we're not trying hard enough, when the game doesn't give the opportunity to do so.
That is insulting, because it shows we weren't listened to even when our opinions were explicitly asked for.
 
Then you have a really thin skin! Imagine being insulted by a game, I must live in a completely different world than some of you!

Maybe we've all missed something about alert systems, and what to do with the Orthrus...
 
Then you have a really thin skin! Imagine being insulted by a game, I must live in a completely different world than some of you!

Maybe we've all missed something about alert systems, and what to do with the Orthrus...
Maybe we're ignorant over the Orthrus AND systems in alert, maybe that solution or rebalance is something that haven't been found.
You may be correct, but there's no need to call someone thin skinned. Its like calling you dense for counterarguing against a point by throwing insults at them.

Mind you, you are not dense, this conversation is.
 
You're right, I apologize for calling Ned thin skinned! I just can't understand how someone can feel insulted by a game...
Perhaps the community is divided between those who are looking for improvements from the game and those who are experiencing the game in its current phase. Nothing is utopian in the community that is Elite Dangerous.

Attitude is what sets those who feel insulted and those who enjoy the game. You and I are players with that different prespective. I can't speak on behalf of those who enjoy the game, but I can at least speak on behalf of the latter.

Frontier Developments is notorious for acknowledging player-input feedback when most of their time is respectably developing the sandbox in which we play in. Some people from this company do play this game, but not to the levels of where players who bought the game has. Inherently, it is assumed by us (and us is not in reference to all people) that players are the ones who play-test and help with the development of the game.

The core belief of this demanding group is, "we hope for the better of this game that we're passionate about, we're willing to break the game to improve and enrich the experience of others".

The issue that's brought forth between this community that views it in a critical perspective, is that we have found the bugs and the problems, and therefore the assumption arises that any bugs that are found should be recognized by the development team to a degree. We didn't get that response, and because of how technical and in depth players are willing to dive in, and yet get ignored by the developement team in the end because they have their own story to tell, we feel they've insulted our devotion to this game.
 
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