Update 15, the Upcoming Feature Rework and More

[Rubbernuke]

It is already too late to try to turn things around. A lot of time and money would have to be invested in this.
I don't see that at the moment. Meanwhile, more and more community breaks away and projects around the game give up.
It's not the end of the world, but it's sad.
It will probably go on like this for a while, but the big wishes and ideas will remain so.
I like to be positively surprised.

Looking at the numbers ED is hanging onto its core audience but blew its chance to grow with EDO quite badly.

But saying that looking at other games such as NMS, even with its continual updates thats remained steady too with no real gain of players.

So it would be an interesting thought experiment to wonder if ED would have (Steam wise) kept hold of that 27K baseline if EDO had been released at Update 13 levels.

 

[Northpin]

Take Powerplay as an example: with watered down NPCs it distorted the game in certain modes, and started the schism we have today. People were told, but no, PPNPCs bad....

I'm pretty sure FDev decisions related to how hard the NPC are, are based on the metrics related to the skill of their average joe playing the game. And since the game has no difficulty sliders, they DO need to cater to the average Joe.
And IMO they must be doing something right since the average number of monthly players is rather good and in line with that they got in their previous normal years (2020 was the Carriers exception and 2021 was the Odyssey exception) and we rarely see posts like NPC too hard, game no fun

I've never really understood the lack of subscription for Elite given the continued updates.

It was ruled out during the kickstarter / early dev stages.
So they must keep the game running with whatever new sales they get (from new players but also from old players buying out Alt accounts) and from selling Cosmetics.
Also, they keep the boat afloat with a very tight budget

 

[androew]

And do you pay a one time fee to play that game or monthly subscription?

I've never really understood the lack of subscription for Elite given the continued updates.

In my case it is a one time fee to play with some in-game purchase, like i do in Elite, of course i bought some cosmetics, i won't pay monthly just for a game. LOL.

I don't know what the problem is, the MMO that i played was released in Dec 2014 same as Elite, that's why i compare this two. I hope Elite could be better, because some new space game is about to arrive. Though Elite is the best space sim I've ever played.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm pretty sure FDev decisions related to how hard the NPC are, are based on the metrics related to the skill of their average joe playing the game. And since the game has no difficulty sliders, they DO need to cater to the average Joe.
And IMO they must be doing something right since the average number of monthly players is rather good and in line with that they got in their previous normal years (2020 was the Carriers exception and 2021 was the Odyssey exception) and we rarely see posts like NPC too hard, game no fun

IIRC the first PP NPCs used a different template and were far more numerous and aggressive. Bear in mind too these NPCs were the effective opposition in those modes, and by watering them down you led to more and more animus towards non Open modes.

Lest I remind you too Powerplay was opt in, as well as being the only ED feature bar CQC that made combat obligatory (or that it was expected regardless of standing).

Couple this with other wider game mistakes (such as shrinking station drop zones) NPCs in PP as well as the wider 'wild' (i.e. outside of curated POIs) were castrated to the point of uselessness.

 

[Riverside]

IIRC the first PP NPCs used a different template and were far more numerous and aggressive. Bear in mind too these NPCs were the effective opposition in those modes, and by watering them down you led to more and more animus towards non Open modes.

Lest I remind you too Powerplay was opt in, as well as being the only ED feature bar CQC that made combat obligatory (or that it was expected regardless of standing).

Couple this with other wider game mistakes (such as shrinking station drop zones) NPCs in PP as well as the wider 'wild' (i.e. outside of curated POIs) were castrated to the point of uselessness.

Most NPCs are cannon fodder by design. Challenge comes from other players, via the BGS or directly. If you want challenging NPCs, that's what Thargoids are for.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Most NPCs are cannon fodder by design. Challenge comes from other players, via the BGS or directly. If you want challenging NPCs, that's what Thargoids are for.

The only 'cannon fodder' NPCs in PP are in CZs. Outside of that they were supposed to harass you ensuring you never had endless milk runs to keep tottering powers solvent.

that's what Thargoids are for.

Sadly not in Powerplay, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Riverside]

The only 'cannon fodder' NPCs in PP are in CZs. Outside of that they were supposed to harass you ensuring you never had endless milk runs to keep tottering powers solvent.


Sadly not in Powerplay, unless I'm missing something.

The PP NPCs delay you by interdicting, the challenge comes from other players (via the BGS or directly). I did mention that already.

Powerplay is optional. So is Anti-xeno combat. You can do both (I do neither).

 

[Rubbernuke]

The PP NPCs delay you by interdicting, the challenge comes from other players (via the BGS or directly). I did mention that already.

Powerplay is optional. So is Anti-xeno combat. You can do both (I do neither).

Thats the whole point though- in solo and PG the only metric you have is time x cargo size. If nothing is there making these runs harder or more tricky, there is no variation and efficiency is near 100%. It also makes having territory (as denoted by the Power UI) pointless, because even when it says "HOSTILE!" it acts the same as your own turf.

In Open you have to contend and mitigate other players, thus its less efficient and slower. This is how NPCs across all modes in PP needed to be for it to at least try and be a functional system.

 

[Riverside]

Thats the whole point though- in solo and PG the only metric you have is time x cargo size. If nothing is there making these runs harder or more tricky, there is no variation and efficiency is near 100%. It also makes having territory (as denoted by the Power UI) pointless, because even when it says "HOSTILE!" it acts the same as your own turf.

In Open you have to contend and mitigate other players, thus its less efficient and slower. This is how NPCs across all modes in PP needed to be for it to at least try and be a functional system.

Maybe you should try the Thargoid stuff instead then.

 

[Darkfyre99]

(o )(o ) Looks offstage…

Is that the Eagles warming up?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Maybe you should try the Thargoid stuff instead then.

But, like you, I don't really care about that- despite it being a very interesting system. I simply hope for U16 FD use that as a template for what I am interested in, which is Powerplay.

 

[Rubbernuke]

(o )(o ) Looks offstage…

Is that the Eagles warming up?

Its frankly weird, because I'm arguing over PvE....

 

[Jack Winter]

Can't we start on the modes and summon a certain thargoid looking mod?

 

[Northpin]

Lest I remind you too Powerplay was opt in, as well as being the only ED feature bar CQC that made combat obligatory (or that it was expected regardless of standing).

Combat is not obligatory nowhere in PVE.
Interdictions are designed to be winnable by players, which kinda rules out any combat if the player fights and wins the intediction

IIRC the first PP NPCs used a different template and were far more numerous and aggressive. Bear in mind too these NPCs were the effective opposition in those modes, and by watering them down you led to more and more animus towards non Open modes.

Maybe, but then again, this changed with Engineers.
Still, NPC can be a rather formidable opponents, but only in certain scenarios like wing assassination missions or pirate threat signal sources.
Also thargs are a very special thing of NPC being deadly.

SO challenging PVE do exist in Elite, but not in general PVE, which does include Powerplay.
Again because FDev caters to every player in ED, not to the most combat apt players.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Combat is not obligatory nowhere in PVE.
Interdictions are designed to be winnable by players, which kinda rules out any combat if the player fights and wins the intediction

So how does one undermine or do CZs in Powerplay? Roll down the window and use harsh language?

Maybe, but then again, this changed with Engineers.
Still NPC can be a rather formidable opponents, but only in certain scenarios like wing assassination missions or pirate threat signal sources.
Also thargs are a very special thing of NPC being deadly.

None of which currently exist in Powerplay (sadly).

 

[Jack Winter]

ATR wings seem to be the most challenging NPCs.

 

[Rubbernuke]

ATR wings seem to be the most challenging NPCs.

The problem with them is, they are edge case NPCs and not really seen in general play. For example you could make PvE more engaging by expanding / relaxing the station drop zones to allow NPCs of all types time to try it on- which would also ease the cram for interdictions.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Its frankly weird, because I'm arguing over PvE....

True… but even right after PowerPlay’s release, NPCs weren’t anymore of a threat that players were, at least as far as I was concerned. That’s why I eventually switched to back to BGS manipulation to advance my power, rather than haul fortification merits… it was much more fun than ABA hauling, and I could have a much bigger impact by reducing (or increasing the Fed’s) fortification efforts than I ever could hauling those merits myself.

You’re basically comparing risk levels that are so slim, it’s best described as a distinction without a difference… at least as far as hauling fortification merits are concerned. In my experience, of course.

 

[Jack Winter]

The problem with them is, they are edge case NPCs and not really seen in general play. For example you could make PvE more engaging by expanding / relaxing the station drop zones to allow NPCs of all types time to try it on- which would also ease the cram for interdictions.

I wouldn't mind at all more challenging NPCs in certain areas/missions. Actually what's up with those pirates (not sure if mission or POI) that are just sitting there like ducks allowing you to pick them off one by one? I really don't understand what that's supposed to be good for...

 

[Rubbernuke]

True… but even right after PowerPlay’s release, NPCs weren’t anymore of a threat that players were, at least as far as I was concerned. That’s why I eventually switched to back to BGS manipulation to advance my power, rather than haul fortification merits… it was much more fun than ABA hauling, and I could have a much bigger impact by reducing (or increasing the Fed’s) fortification efforts than I ever could hauling those merits myself.

You’re basically comparing risk levels that are so slim, it’s best described as a distinction without a difference… at least as far as hauling fortification merits are concerned. In my experience, of course.

PPs setup is that you have what is essentially a 'headless' CZ bubble wide, where NPCs have ample opportunity to interdict or ambush you when you drop to cause problems and stop milk runs between job sites.

Unless FD change PP to adopt BGS like missions (with priced in danger) the current model has a giant gap where you in your hauler need to be messed with. Rival NPCs needed (and were, for a vanishingly small time) able to loiter around stations, adjusters / power flavour death cops had some teeth (before bugs and downgrades made them a joke). In my C grade Asp two rival Anacondas opening fire made me have to do some fun evasion which added variety and time to my run.