Guide / Tutorial Destroying your first Thargoid Cyclops with minimal equipment, upgrades, flying and effort.

[Aleks Zuno]

Applicability note​

I started writing this tutorial around one month ago, with the intended context of attacked ports in Invasion systems as part of the Thargoid war. Soon after that came the initial reports of Research samples being very effective, for which I postponed this project to investigate, and since then we have stopped so many Alerts in addition to the mainstay Invasion defences that said Invasions are actually facing extinction.

In the event of future Invasions no longer existing:

• The most comparable scenario will be AX Conflict Zones present in those Control systems closest to us.
• For the moment, port attacks still exist in the Witch Head Nebula systems.
• With Alerts still appearing, it is likely that summoning Thargoids via Hyperspace will still be applicable.

I do not advise attempting this in open Thargoid space, at least not without investment into upgrades beyond the original scope.

Foreword​

The idea to write such a tutorial started following some discussion about how well some of the new anti-xeno weapons perform, during which I made this video of the new Enhanced AX Multi-cannons against a Cyclops.

They were quite effective at close range; less so beyond 1.5 kilometers or so, where the gimbal sway caused a lot of shots to miss. This wasted just enough ammunition to leave that petal at 1% integrity, at which point I got a bit impatient and used a Gauss strike, but the point at the time was that the Multi-cannons can work quite well.

The real motivation came much later though, when I heard a particularly unexpected comment about that video:

“So that is a Thargoid!”​

This was a true statement and a most pleasing moment to witness, but it also gave me pause. Without judging or thinking any less of anyone, it reminded me that it is well to consider that not everyone has destroyed, escaped from, encountered or even seen a picture of a Thargoid necessarily. Even if Galnet displays them in a cover image occasionally, there was nothing like seeing its movements and attacks and hearing its alien sounds to help make the connection.

With that in mind, I want to try undermining any general notion that destroying a Thargoid requires a lot of time to build a capable starship, or a lot of practice and perfect flight just to avoid exploding. Those things may help a lot to fight well, and may be required to proceed beyond destroying a Cyclops, but they are not a requirement. They are so far from a requirement that you can destroy a Cyclops with stock parts, just a few specific actions to understand, and no actual flying other than facing the target.

To be clear—this build is bad. The effort is bad, the flying is bad, it will not work well much beyond the Cyclops, and I imagine many well-practised anti-xeno pilots will hate it. However, the low effort, bad build and bad flying are exactly the point—it still gets a Cyclops kill. For those who have not yet destroyed a Cyclops but would like to do so given the means, the intention is for Commanders of as wide an experience range as possible to see it and know immediately that they can do it.

That is the one main point I want to make more so than any other: You can do it. Not only that, but you can do it better, and probably make a dozen different improvements. To an extent this risks being too much of an anti-example, though at the same time I find it helps a lot to learn the Thargoid behaviour, because it gives you more time to watch what the Thargoid does without worrying too much about what happens as a result. Flying away with a combat bond is also a quite nice bonus!

Clarification​

In the title, I wrote minimal equipment, upgrades, flying and effort, where notably many of those can be traded-off against each other. For example, you could use spend less to get a light starship, but your upgrades and flying will then need heavy investment. Probably the fastest method of removing a Cyclops with little flying and effort is to use this six-Shard Anaconda.

The problem is that it takes much time and resources to collect the needed Guardian materials for six Azimuth Shards, acquire the Mbooni system permit, engineer an unshielded Anaconda for survival, and ideally add Sirius Heat sinks and an Aegis Caustic sink. The above efficacy statement is not well-informed; it should say that it is probably the fastest method once acquired, not to mention its limited applicability to different scenarios.

My goal is to balance those different types of investment and reduce them collectively:

• This will require a few hundred million credits, but there is nothing to unlock.
• Engineering upgrades are recommended for helping with travel, but otherwise can be ignored.
• Pointing weapons at a target and moving within range is needed, though no fancy flying is required.
• Only a few of the normal gadgets and buttons need to be used.

Choosing to invest more in those areas will enhance the result, of course.

Equipment​

For around 200 million credits with 10 million re-buy, get a Python with this EDSY build.

Your modules shopping list is:

• Three 3C and two 2E gimbal Enhanced AX Multi-cannons
• Two Heat sink launchers
• Enhanced Xeno scanner
• Shutdown field neutraliser
• Military Grade Composite armour
• 7A Power Plant
• 6A Thrusters
• 5A Frame Shift Drive
• 4A Life Support
• 7A Power Distributor
• 6A Sensors
• Two 5D, one 2D and one 1D Module Reinforcement Package
• Three 5D, one 4D and one 3D Hull Reinforcement Package
• 3F Experimental Weapon Stabiliser

This will work with zero Engineering, though in practice I engineered just the Thrusters and Frame Shift Drive. Both of those are only to help with travel, are no more than is available from Felicity Farseer, and will have nothing to do with the Cyclops fight. The extra flight speed is only for boosting away more easily if interdicted!

Fire groups​

I suggest having only the Scanner in group A, and Scanner plus Multi-cannons in group B, with the Neutraliser on secondary fire in both groups. It looks like this:

This build is simple enough that you always have access to the Neutraliser on secondary fire, though do note that you can also set a dedicated button for it if you prefer, then use a single fire group for Scanner and Multi-cannons. I like to set it so that holding my usual Chaff button uses the Neutraliser instead, which works quite well given that the Neutraliser needs to be held active anyway—more about that in a moment!

Before attacking anything​

Your first concern, well ahead of anything which might happen in a fight with a Cyclops, is that you are actually attacking a Cyclops as opposed to something stronger. In our case this is very easy because we have the Enhanced Xeno Scanner present, which provides us with the holographic target view:

Looking just above the Hull display, those four markers represent its active petals, where only a Cyclops starts with four (Basilisk has five, Medusa six, Hydra eight). Completing a formal scan would reveal by name that it is a Cyclops, and we do need to scan it anyway for targeting purposes, but identifying it via those markers is important for deciding in advance whether you want to fight.

In addition to ensuring that you have a Cyclops, you will need also to be sure that you are fighting only that Cyclops and nothing else. An attacked port will involve removing a few Scouts first, then a bit of battle progress will cause at least two Interceptors to arrive, though typically you can choose one of them and fight it independently if you leave any others alone.

As with any conflict, it helps to watch your radar display at least a bit, and react if your Hull is depleting too quickly. Our vessel is good enough to destroy one Cyclops comfortably and actually can destroy two in return for a bit of module damage, but it should flee if attacked by two simultaneously.

The parts you need to know​

Of the many aspects involved with a Interceptor fight, for the moment you need only care about three—and I have already shown you two of them!

Neutralising the shutdown​

Watch the start of the Shards video again; immediately after appearing, the Cyclops begins an Energy surge, which always means that a Shutdown field will follow. You can hear the COVAS announce it there, however the COVAS can be disrupted while Thargoids are around, so it is better to watch for this important warning:

You have a good few seconds to react, and usually a moment more depending on your distance—you can see that the green Shutdown field takes time to expand. Whether you have your Neutraliser in a fire group or a dedicated button for it, please note that you need to hold the button, and not just until the range bar is full! Some Commanders misinterpret that bar and release the button much too soon; you need to hold it until the wavefront has passed.

Finally, note that there are two cases where Interceptors will attempt a Shutdown:

• Just after arriving via Frame Shift Anomaly. This will not happen when encountering an Interceptor other ways, such as by interdiction.
• As an additional special attack when only one active petal remains. For a Cyclops, that means after destroying the third petal (five remaining visibly).

Do not worry too much about missing the Neutraliser at first; even if the Cyclops attacks you throughout a Shutdown, you should still have plenty of hull and module integrity remaining. The only real threats during a missed Shutdown are if more than just the Cyclops has taken interest, or if you are at a planetary port and falling to the ground.

Destroying the petals​

Watch the Multi-cannons video again, at first looking closely at the target Hull and what occurs when it is reduced to 80%:

That is with the luxury of the Scanner of course; its Hull restores back to 100%, but note that the petal remains exposed for a while, marked red there. You can see also that a petal is glowing if you look at the Cyclops itself. Unfortunately it turned away at that moment, so it is harder to see in the Multi-cannons video:

It was much easier to see in the Shards video:

As I am quite sure you have noticed by now, you need to destroy that glowing petal specifically. With gimbal weapons, this requires that you complete a Xeno scan on the target first, without which you will not be able to access its sub-targets. For initial simplicity, it is as well to scan first before attacking it. After that, you can then target a specific petal, either by setting buttons for Previous/Next subsystem or by using the Target panel:

Actually that is a Target panel for a Hydra, which has eight active petals rather than four, though I am sure you understand the idea. By either means, choosing the correct sub-target will allow your gimbal weapons to converge upon it and destroy the petal, progressing the battle. The gimbal sway can cause a lot of shots to miss at long range; luckily for us, we will be very much up close instead.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Burning the caustic damage​

After each petal starting from the second, the Cyclops will use Caustic missiles. The missile warning looks like this:

Note that the message says incoming Caustic missile; you will see normal missiles also, but these are just due to the Swarm misbehaving and can be ignored. The damage warning looks like this:

This will deal continual hull damage, though it occurs quite slowly with a well-built starship, so this is actually only a minor concern. We will not be using Decontamination limpets here because any inbound attack will destroy the limpet; instead, it is much more reliable to burn it away by heating up the starship.

Noting also how the Hull display becomes light-green when Caustic damage is present, our answer to the Caustic damage is Silent Running:

This can be done as an answer to the Caustic damage message, though ideally do it in response to the Caustic missile message. The great part about using entirely Hull protection is that there is no shield to be lost by activating Silent Running. The objective is to make your starship Heat level do this:

You will heat up considerably faster while your Multi-cannons are firing, and boosting is a heat-inducing action if needed. Ignore this pointless message:

Look for this useful message (or for your Hull to return to its normal colour of course):

As soon as it is gone, you can then use a Heat sink and disable Silent Running again. That full process is a bit fiddly and involves more buttons than anything else here, but it is fine to delay it if needed:

• Definitely prioritise operating the Neutraliser if you see an Energy surge.
• After that, activating Silent Running is about the same importance as fiddling with your targeting.
• Using the Heat sink is less important; it is fine to take a bit of extra Heat damage for a few seconds.
• After having used a Heat sink, you have plenty of time to deactivate Silent Running—or simply leave it active!

With a swift enough Cyclops battle, it is easily possible to destroy the next petal already by the time you remove the Caustic damage. At that point, you will have more Caustic missiles upcoming, so it could be just as well to leave Silent Running active and let the starship heat up again.

Either way, use a Heat sink after the Caustic damage is gone, and not before! There are different Caustic damage levels which burn away at different Heat levels, ranging from around 125% to 250%, so always check that the damage is actually gone rather than presuming that some Heat level will suffice.

Piecing it together​

Other than the above actions, all you really need to do is fire upon the Thargoid! Just keep your starship pointed at the target and keep your Multi-cannons firing. Use them for everything; on the hull to expose the petals, on the exposed petals to destroy them, on the following shields to deplete them, and eventually to finish the Cyclops.

Do not worry about Cyclops attacks, the Lightning or the Swarm. Do not worry about your Distributor points; just press Reset and leave them all at two. Do not worry about moving anywhere other than to point at the target and remain within range.

It should look something like this!

To review and explain that encounter a bit:

• 0:00 – From the start, you can see that I have already used the Multi-cannons a bit; this was just against Scouts, to get around 10% conflict progress and cause Interceptors to appear. See below for the full scenario!
• 0:09 – I then located a Frame Shift Anomaly by watching the radar and following one of those unresolved markers. It is that black cloud, and you can see how they are not easily visible out in space.
• 0:30 – Energy surge upon arrival, and timing the Neutraliser to be active as the wavefront passes. Those two Energy surge messages are because two Interceptors arrived.
• 0:42 – Ignoring the swarm, I thought it would be a good idea to expose the first petal and complete the scan together, but the scan needed a little longer. Switching fire group saved some ammunition while maintaining the scan, though this is by no means required! It is fine to scan first, or just to continue firing, as long as that scan completes.
• 0:52 – Targeting the petal was done via Next/Previous subsystem, though it is absolutely fine to ignore the fight for a moment while you find the correct subsystem in the Target menu.
• 0:58 – I chose to clear and retarget the Cyclops, which was just to stop targeting the destroyed petal. You can do that with Target Forward, or using the Contacts panel, or simply target one of the remaining petals! I also waited a bit for its shield to appear before attacking again, but again this only saves a bit of ammunition, so by all means just keep firing without thinking about that.
• 1:04 – Ignoring the lightning and any Swarm missiles, I just keep firing to remove the shield, and proceed to expose and destroy the second petal. System AX forces decided to "help" a bit at this point with a bit of missile damage; you can see the small blue explosions. Ignore them, though!
• 1:36 – Next is the Caustic missile attack; I enabled Silent Running after the Caustic missile warning, though before the first strike. Do not worry too much about timing there; it is fine to address that whenever you get a moment away from other actions—such as destroying the third petal!
• 1:55 – The Caustic burned away at exactly the same time as the Energy surge following that third petal. I could have used a Heat sink sooner there, but I was concentrating on the Neutraliser timing for the upcoming Shutdown. You can see that I used a Heat sink just a moment after starting the Neutraliser, having prioritised the latter.
• 2:09 – Fourth petal removed similarly, this time ignoring Silent Running until after the Caustic damage was present. Watching the footage back, I see also that the system forces tried to give me a Repair limpet, only to be shot away moments later.
• 2:30 – Again I saw an Energy surge exactly as that last petal was destroyed; actually this was due to another Interceptor arriving elsewhere, and is not part of a single Cyclops fight. Worse still, I could not hear the Shutdown charging, although that also makes it likely that the Shutdown could have been out of range. Either way, I counted a few seconds then used the Neutraliser just to be safe.
• 2:35 – Just to confuse matters a bit, you can see another Cyclops nearby in the background, but that one must have arrived earlier because it was already attacking things. The best you can do is ignore it and probably it will attack the port or system forces, though obviously be prepared to escape if you need.
• 2:45 – With the fourth petal gone, the Cyclops is all but done—just remove its final shield and destroy the last of its hull!

Please mind that each dead Interceptor leaves behind a quite large Caustic cloud for a while.

Afterword​

As promised twice earlier, once implicitly by claiming that we can destroy a second Cyclops that way then later explicitly while discussing the initial Scouts, here is the full scenario with Scouts and both Cyclops. The system forces had helped a bit by exposing the first petal of the second Cyclops, though hopefully it is clear that said Cyclops would have died with or without their damage to it. It is also a good demonstration of having a lot of external module malfunctions due to the damage from all of those Swarm missile strikes, and with the broken Neutraliser triggering itself randomly it was very much time to flee.

As will be known by some and suspected by others, it should be clear that this approach is possible and improvable, but ultimately not sustainable. For a start, everything I ignored deliberately is present for a reason and should be addressed for an optimal fight. Anyone following this approach needs to be aware that it has its limits which will require different strategies to overcome, along with investment of course—equipment, upgrades, flying and effort.

That said, my hope is that it imparts at least the following:

• You can destroy a Cyclops.
• You can build a tougher starship if you want.
• You can unlock stronger weapons if you want.
• You can make the battle easier if you want (planetary ports for no Swarms¹, keep a docking request open to block Shutdowns²).
• It is very easy to build a ship which can survive a Cyclops.
• Cyclops battles are so forgiving that you can be hit by everything and still win.

At the very least, if watching that helps somebody improve their transport vessels to survive a pirate then I am quite happy with it.


1. During my testing, the Swarms seem not to appear if the Interceptor is within 100 km altitude above a planet.
2. Very obviously, please do not keep a docking request open if another Commander needs the landing pad.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Excellent write up

 

[OrdinaryMan]

The perfect guide.

 

[Neilski]

Excellent guide!

Three 3C and two 2E gimbal Enhanced AX Multi-cannons

I tried some class 2 EAXMCs myself recently and found them a bit feeble, and then I realised that they have roughly half the armour-piercing of a class 3 (!!). This means that with the reduced nominal damage and near-identical AX fraction, it seems to take 3 class 2s to match a single class 3. Ouch.

keep a docking request open to block Shutdowns

Holy crap, I had no idea this was a thing
Today I learned yet another new thing about AX combat (Turns out I didn't need to be quite so scared all those times when trying to dock in a panic and hearing the dreaded "surge detected"!)

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I tried some class 2 EAXMCs myself recently and found them a bit feeble, and then I realised that they have roughly half the armour-piercing of a class 3 (!!). This means that with the reduced nominal damage and near-identical AX fraction, it seems to take 3 class 2s to match a single class 3. Ouch.

In this case it is purely for simplicity, but otherwise, very true! This was the very reason why my test Krait had Gauss in its class 2 hardpoints instead, and the end of that demonstration video from 2:53 really highlights the difference; the class 3 weapons start reloading just after the shield depletes, during which you can see the relatively modest damage of those class 2 weapons.

Speaking of Gauss, for quite a while I thought its low Breach chance looked quite poor, then learned later that the Breach chance against Human modules is overridden completely for a Thargoid. All shots which strike a petal all have either 0% Breach if hidden or 100% Breach if exposed!

 

[limpetdwarf]

Huh? How did you manage to set buttons (keys?) for individual weapons to fire? I've always been missing the ability to set particular keys for particular things. There are only so many things you can configure in the settings, and important things like sending a docking request or targetting the closest ship are missing. Everything in the same fire group always fires all at once, provided that it can, and there's no way around that.

Besides, I'm out of materials, and the idea to waste materials on making special ammo is appalling. They are way to hard to get for that. No, I don't think I could blow up a Cyclops, especially not in a Python. Pythons are slow.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Huh? How did you manage to set buttons (keys?) for individual weapons to fire? I've always been missing the ability to set particular keys for particular things.

Some devices have the ability to set a dedicated button; I am doing that to use Heat sinks, where admittedly I forgot to mention that extra Heat sink button. Silent Running is a standard starship feature and can only be activated with a button, assuming you do not want to fiddle with the Ship menu. Lastly, I am using a button to cycle the subsystems, however it is absolutely fine (and occasionally quicker!) just to use the Target panel for that.

Everything else is on primary or secondary fire; review the Fire groups again to see what I did. You can set a separate button for the Neutraliser, though in that video I just placed it on secondary fire. I may also be misunderstanding exactly which buttons/weapons you mean!

Besides, I'm out of materials, and the idea to waste materials on making special ammo is appalling.

I am not using any special ammunition; you may be thinking of how the Advanced Multi-cannon works, which indeed requires special ammunition to strike a Cyclops. I am using the Enhanced AX Multi-cannons, which have anti-xeno damage ammunition already, and can be purchased from any Rescue megaship.

I promise that the only materials I spent on that Python were to upgrade the Frame Shift Drive for travel and the Thrusters for escaping interdictions. Every module cost only credits with no unlock requirements, nothing else has engineer upgrades, and I did not have to spend materials to synthesise any ammunition.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Some devices have the ability to set a dedicated button; I am doing that to use Heat sinks, where admittedly I forgot to mention that extra Heat sink button. Silent Running is a standard starship feature and can only be activated with a button, assuming you do not want to fiddle with the Ship menu. Lastly, I am using a button to cycle the subsystems, however it is absolutely fine (and occasionally quicker!) just to use the Target panel for that.

I tried using heat sinks and was blown up. I don't want to try that again. That was on xbox where you have the problem that you can not use multiple input devices simultaneously.

I'm assuming by 'button' you mean a key on your keyboard. The xbox controller is really cool for Elite and I'm using it with my computer now, but I had to reduce the number of things that is bound a button or a combination of buttons because it's too confusing. I always missed having a keyboard on xbox.

Everything else is on primary or secondary fire; review the Fire groups again to see what I did. You can set a separate button for the Neutraliser, though in that video I just placed it on secondary fire. I may also be misunderstanding exactly which buttons/weapons you mean!

You make it sound like that you can assign a key on your keyboard to each weapon or utility module.

I am not using any special ammunition; you may be thinking of how the Advanced Multi-cannon works, which indeed requires special ammunition to strike a Cyclops. I am using the Enhanced AX Multi-cannons, which have anti-xeno damage ammunition already, and can be purchased from any Rescue megaship.

I'm just thinking of multi cannons some of which I have engineerd and am getting good results against 'normal' NPCs with. Without engineering their damage is kinda pathetic. How many types of multicannons are there now? I think I've been reading that multicannons have been replaced with something that works better against Thargoids. And it seemed that special multicannons that work against Thargoids don't work against human ships, which would leave me defenseless against those, unless you have the ones that require special ammunition. This is all very confusing, and I sure don't want to be defenseless.

I promise that the only materials I spent on that Python were to upgrade the Frame Shift Drive for travel and the Thrusters for escaping interdictions. Every module cost only credits with no unlock requirements, nothing else has engineer upgrades, and I did not have to spend materials to synthesise any ammunition.

Trying to fight human NPCs in a Python without engineering is a bad idea, and engineering didn't make it much better. So I ended up using the Python for mining (for which it didn't work too well) before I got a T10 and then for gathering materials until I tried a Krait Mk II. Since the Krait, my Python is gathering dust in storage. And now you suggest I should fight Thargoids in an unengineered Python, apparently without shields. Ugh, no, I don't think I could shoot down a Thargoid.

I was thinking about bringing my FDL --- or my T10 which has a lot more firepower --- to see what abandoned, damaged or even attacked stations look like, but after looking at this guide I'm thinking it seems way too dangerous. Neither has weapons effective against Thargoids. Perhaps trying to be stealthy is a better idea.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I tried using heat sinks and was blown up. I don't want to try that again. That was on xbox where you have the problem that you can not use multiple input devices simultaneously.

If I may suggest more generally, Heat sinks are a useful safety module to carry for almost any role, and it is usually as well to set up some convenient button to use them. I asked a Commander on Xbox for button-advice just now; the response was "X+LT/LB". Alternatively, the fire groups here are simple enough that you could put the Heat sink on secondary in group B in place of the Neutraliser, if you are happy to switch fire groups when you need the Neutraliser.

Unfortunately the heat is not often a mechanism you can avoid entirely, and with Thargoids it is a deliberate, specific theme.

You make it sound like that you can assign a key on your keyboard to each weapon or utility module.

Not to each weapon, and not to every utility module. As far as modules are concerned, I am using primary fire, secondary fire, and one extra button for Heat sink specifically. The latter is a very common way to control it!

I'm just thinking of multi cannons some of which I have engineerd and am getting good results against 'normal' NPCs with. Without engineering their damage is kinda pathetic.

These are the newer Enhanced AX Multi-cannons, which are not normal weapons and can not be engineered. Prior experience is obstructing you a bit here—you do not need to think about weapon engineering or special ammunition. You just fit the Enhanced AX Multi-cannons at a Rescue megaship, use them directly, and restock normally! The class 3 gimbal version is particularly powerful against Scouts and Cyclops Interceptors.

I think I've been reading that multicannons have been replaced with something that works better against Thargoids.

There are plenty of other weapons, however those require unlocking. They also all have other trade-offs to consider, such as overwhelming heat or distributor draw. The Enhanced AX Multi-cannons suffice, and it was a goal of the above tutorial not to involve any time spent unlocking things!

And it seemed that special multicannons that work against Thargoids don't work against human ships, which would leave me defenseless against those

Very few AX weapons do work well against Human ships; there should be no such expectation. You are far from defenceless though; it is very difficult for most attackers to harm a well-built AX starship.

Trying to fight human NPCs in a Python without engineering is a bad idea, and engineering didn't make it much better.

Engineering definitely will allow it to take more damage, but the point was that it can kill a Cyclops without requiring that investment. Moreover, the comparison with Human targets really does not work in the context of weaponry—I agree that bounty-hunting weapons should be engineered, but note that AX weapons simply do not participate in the normal engineering process.

And now you suggest I should fight Thargoids in an unengineered Python, apparently without shields.

The Python choice was so that it would be tougher than a Krait 2, because the plan was to remain as motionless as possible. Regarding shields, actually you will find that most AX starships have no shield. You need the utility space for Heat sinks rather than Shield boosters, you need the option to use Silent Running, and you need the SYS power to use a Neutraliser. Having a shield can also cause a problem because the Cyclops damage has phasing; there are shielded AX builds, but due to phasing they involve meticulous planning of the shield-to-hull ratio (considering regeneration time, shield cells, planned reboot/repair).

It is great that you are considering all of these things, as one would do when taking the time to build something more powerful, which I was trying very much to avoid. Since the Thargoid war and its involvement of a lot of Commanders, I have thought a lot about the simplest path from not having ever seen a Cyclops to destroying one with relative ease, and this was the result!

 

[Fnord Velkor]

...
You make it sound like that you can assign a key on your keyboard to each weapon or utility module.
...

Excuse me if I am misunderstanding your confusion, if you already know the following I apologise.

1 - You have two separate fire buttons which you can assign in as many fire groups as you choose.

2 - Chaff, heat-sink, shield cell banks and shutdown-field neutraliser can each be assigned a key separate from any fire group or fire button.

There are defaults for firebutton 1 and 2 (right and left trigger for xbox) as well as keyboard defaults for the others I have mentioned - I don't know of any defaults on xbox for those but I assume you could assign a button combination for each of those?

 

[limpetdwarf]

If I may suggest more generally, Heat sinks are a useful safety module to carry for almost any role, and it is usually as well to set up some convenient button to use them.

I have never had any use for them other than trying not to get scanned when transporting illegal passengers or cargo. They didn't work for that so what's the point.

I asked a Commander on Xbox for button-advice just now; the response was "X+LT/LB". Alternatively, the fire groups here are simple enough that you could put the Heat sink on secondary in group B in place of the Neutraliser, if you are happy to switch fire groups when you need the Neutraliser.

I'm not playing Elite on xbox anymore, only the xbox controller is great for flying, so I'm still using it. I could never and will never remember all the button combinations with the controller. The result of those is that you accidentially end up deploying your cargo hatch and/or your landing gear without realizing when trying to move away from a conflict zone to recover from depleted shields and that you boost into the asteroid in front of you while mining when trying to actually open or close the cargo hatch.

I'm not happy with fire groups, either. I want to be able to assign keys, like 1, 2, 3 etc., on my keyboard but I can't even do that. I also hate the stupid mode switching which happens automatically all the time. That needs to be just another fire group, assigned to 7, 8, 9 or whatever seems useful. Every car I've ever driven had a light switch and another one for the windscreen wipers and the washer. Nobody in their right mind would put a mode switch into cars so that you have to use the controls for the wipers and/or the washer to switch the lights, or the other way round. You want to use the turning lights? Sure, put another mode on the mode switch and switch to the right mode first before you use them ... And of course, don't dare to put an indicator anywhere that at least lets you see which mode is currently enabled, it has to be trial and error every time because the mode keeps being randomly switched all the time all by itself.

If I have to switch through fire groups to use the neutraliser I'll probably be too slow to sucessfully use it. Things like that need to be on the keyboard.

Unfortunately the heat is not often a mechanism you can avoid entirely, and with Thargoids it is a deliberate, specific theme.

That's bad.

Not to each weapon, and not to every utility module.

Yes, and that's a problem. It's not even possible to assign a key to send docking requests.

As far as modules are concerned, I am using primary fire, secondary fire, and one extra button for Heat sink specifically. The latter is a very common way to control it!

I'm not using heat sinks.

These are the newer Enhanced AX Multi-cannons, which are not normal weapons and can not be engineered.

So they don't do much damage?

Prior experience is obstructing you a bit here—you do not need to think about weapon engineering or special ammunition. You just fit the Enhanced AX Multi-cannons at a Rescue megaship, use them directly, and restock normally! The class 3 gimbal version is particularly powerful against Scouts and Cyclops Interceptors.

It's something I don't know about, and trying things out is too dangerous and too costly. And I really don't like getting killed.

There are plenty of other weapons, however those require unlocking. They also all have other trade-offs to consider, such as overwhelming heat or distributor draw. The Enhanced AX Multi-cannons suffice, and it was a goal of the above tutorial not to involve any time spent unlocking things!

That's the problem, the Thargoid war is maybe a thing for the few commanders who have fought Thargoids before because they wanted to. For everyone else it's way over their heads.

Very few AX weapons do work well against Human ships; there should be no such expectation. You are far from defenceless though; it is very difficult for most attackers to harm a well-built AX starship.

How am I not defenceless when I don't have weapons I can defend myself with. This might have been a reasonable case for a mode switch maybe, but then, the weapon should be able to detect if it's shooting at a human ship or at a Thargoid and switch automatically. Perhaps have engineers install such additional mode switches to your weapons at no extra charge because the engineers support the war effort. At least they should.

Engineering definitely will allow it to take more damage, but the point was that it can kill a Cyclops without requiring that investment. Moreover, the comparison with Human targets really does not work in the context of weaponry—I agree that bounty-hunting weapons should be engineered, but note that AX weapons simply do not participate in the normal engineering process.

So they leave you defenseless.

The Python choice was so that it would be tougher than a Krait 2, because the plan was to remain as motionless as possible.

It's usually a bad idea to remain motionless when under attack.

Regarding shields, actually you will find that most AX starships have no shield.

Well, that sucks. I tried a T9 without shields so it could carry more cargo, but it got scratched in the docking bays way too often to go without them, so I put small ones to avoid the scratching.

You need the utility space for Heat sinks rather than Shield boosters, you need the option to use Silent Running,

Silent running is a great recipie for blowing myself up.

and you need the SYS power to use a Neutraliser. Having a shield can also cause a problem because the Cyclops damage has phasing; there are shielded AX builds, but due to phasing they involve meticulous planning of the shield-to-hull ratio (considering regeneration time, shield cells, planned reboot/repair).

It is great that you are considering all of these things, as one would do when taking the time to build something more powerful, which I was trying very much to avoid. Since the Thargoid war and its involvement of a lot of Commanders, I have thought a lot about the simplest path from not having ever seen a Cyclops to destroying one with relative ease, and this was the result!

Well, you call it easy, I call it extremely dangerous and way too complicated. You're asking people to hang out themselves out to dry, to remain motionless in ships not suited for combat with no shields with untested and unfamiliar weapons they don't know how to use and which leave them defenseless against normal NPCs. You even ask them to blow themselves up by enabling silent running. Who in their right mind would that?

I removed the button combination for silent running a while ago because it's way too dangerous because it gets triggered by accident in the middle of combat. There is no silent running, no heat sinks and no flying without shields.

Be realistic: Give us better ships hardened against shutdown fields and corrosion with working shields and weapons, pay for them and don't kill us in the docking entrance when we rush to help you. Then maybe I reconsider fighting your war if you pay me well enough for it and if it makes a difference.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

@limpetdwarf, around half of what you are saying belongs in Suggestions, and the other half is packed with irreverent comparisons. Primarily, you need to understand that AX weapons are to Thargoids as Mining weapons are to asteroids, and that you cannot and should not be able to destroy all attackers in a AX vessel any more than in a Mining vessel.

Pass on it if you want, but please refrain from baselessness such as this:

You're asking people to hang out themselves out to dry, to remain motionless in ships not suited for combat with no shields with untested and unfamiliar weapons they don't know how to use and which leave them defenseless against normal NPCs. You even ask them to blow themselves up by enabling silent running. Who in their right mind would that?

You know very well that I showed a video of exactly that, and no starship loss was involved. You know that any form of Multi-cannon is hardly unfamiliar, and even if it were, I took the time to show it. It is only in your mind alone that shields are required for everything, modules must be useless if not engineered, everything must be able to destroy any attacker, heat sinks have no effect, and that Silent running is the same as Self-destruct.

 

[limpetdwarf]

@limpetdwarf, around half of what you are saying belongs in Suggestions, and the other half is packed with irreverent comparisons. Primarily, you need to understand that AX weapons are to Thargoids as Mining weapons are to asteroids, and that you cannot and should not be able to destroy all attackers in a AX vessel any more than in a Mining vessel.

Making suggestions is pointless, nobody cares. I don't want to be defenseless in a mining ship, either.

Pass on it if you want, but please refrain from baselessness such as this:

You know very well that I showed a video of exactly that, and no starship loss was involved. You know that any form of Multi-cannon is hardly unfamiliar, and even if it were, I took the time to show it. It is only in your mind alone that shields are required for everything, modules must be useless if not engineered, everything must be able to destroy any attacker, heat sinks have no effect, and that Silent running is the same as Self-destruct.

It's not baseless at all, it's based on experience. Heat sinks gave me very bad results and I quit using them. Silent running looses all shields and makes the ship overheat and blows it up eventually, so it's obviously a bad idea. Flying without shields has also proven to be a bad idea, so I stopped doing it. I never said that modules are useless when not engineered. They are better when engineered, make things easier and allow me to survive NPC combat which is otherwise something I better avoid.

You can't seem to understand what you're asking people to do. I told you what it is and you don't want to see it. Most, if not all, of what you're asking is exactly the things that get you killed. If what you're doing works for you that doesn't mean it works for anyone else. You're asking people to do exactly the things that get them killed and want them to believe they would not only survive but even kill an extremely dangerous enemy. If anything is baseless, it's what you're asking --- not even baseless, it contracticts everything people have learned about how to survive.

BTW, you're not showing. I think you want to show videos, but all I can see is stuttering images with long pauses in between at a very low resolution. There's nothing that could be learned from that. I guess the file has been damaged or something. Perhaps the Thargoids didn't want anyone to see and messed with it.

 

[aRJay]

Making suggestions is pointless, nobody cares. I don't want to be defenseless in a mining ship, either.

Somebody always cares but if you don’t care enough to make suggestions that is a shame.
I am not keen on mining ships without defences so I equip mine with shields and point defences and high speed I see no need to be able to attack someone I can outrun much easier and faster especially when the ability to attack detracts from the ability to mine.

It's not baseless at all, it's based on experience. Heat sinks gave me very bad results and I quit using them. Silent running looses all shields and makes the ship overheat and blows it up eventually, so it's obviously a bad idea.

If you had heat sinks available they could provide a solution to your ship overheating while silent running getting rid of excess heat is what they do. The fact that heat sinks are not always the answer to avoiding scans is probably a range thing, after all you can scan/target an NPC DBX if you are close enough, but making you harder to spot is a secondary function.

Flying without shields has also proven to be a bad idea, so I stopped doing it. I never said that modules are useless when not engineered. They are better when engineered, make things easier and allow me to survive NPC combat which is otherwise something I better avoid.

Some modules are better engineered some are a waste of effort to engineer.

You can't seem to understand what you're asking people to do. I told you what it is and you don't want to see it. Most, if not all, of what you're asking is exactly the things that get you killed. If what you're doing works for you that doesn't mean it works for anyone else. You're asking people to do exactly the things that get them killed and want them to believe they would not only survive but even kill an extremely dangerous enemy. If anything is baseless, it's what you're asking --- not even baseless, it contracticts everything people have learned about how to survive.

Almost everything we have learned in the game about surviving in a combat situation is against other humans with the same technology base as ourselves. The Thargoids aren’t human and have a different tech base expecting the tactics from one to work against the other is optimistic at best.

 

[Neilski]

I think you want to show videos, but all I can see is stuttering images with long pauses in between at a very low resolution. There's nothing that could be learned from that. I guess the file has been damaged or something.

If you mean for example this video:

It should look something like this!

then it works perfectly for me. Perhaps there's something wrong with your PC, or perhaps there's a network issue between you and the iniv.space server. One thing you can try in either case would be to right-click on the video and save it to your machine before playing it in a separate video player. This applies to all of the videos in the first couple of posts, of course. (In Firefox, I right-click and choose "Save video as...".)

You appear to be somewhat frustrated with things not working in the game. That's understandable and I've been there several times myself with ED. However, you've missed the value in lots of things as a result - e.g. heat sinks and silent running. Once you've saved the video and had a chance to review it, check out what happens in the vicinity of 1:50 (1 minute 50 seconds) into it - silent running is used to great effect to remove caustic damage, after which (with a pause for the neutraliser) a heat sink is used to drop the heat back to safe levels. Ship did not self destruct...

General remark: ED has a savage learning curve, and any time you take on a new activity you can face that again even having become expert in other aspects of playing the game. The game has weird quirks and bugs, and will annoy the hell out of most of us on many occasions. Despite that it can be huge fun...
(I've personally enjoyed the majority of my recent foray into AX for the first time, having never done more than run away - terrified - from hyperdictions in the past.)

 

[Fnord Velkor]

...

@limpetdwarf - really, it seems to me that you would be better served making your own thread elsewhere asking for help as you obviously don't want to follow this guide.

 

[limpetdwarf]

Somebody always cares but if you don’t care enough to make suggestions that is a shame.

Why would I bother to make suggestions just to have them ignored? I did make a lot of them and it was all for nothing. I admit that two things that have bothered me on xbox seem to be different in Odyssey in that they now seem to actually work, but I think that's only because the xbox version is simply very broken and not because they were fixed after I pointed them out. Nobody seemed to understand these problems, so I can only assume they are xbox problems and still aren't fixed there.

I wasn't even making suggestions here anyway. I was merely trying to explain missing functionality when it seemed that someone has somehow achieved at least some of it while it was unclear what they were saying.

I am not keen on mining ships without defences so I equip mine with shields and point defences and high speed I see no need to be able to attack someone I can outrun much easier and faster especially when the ability to attack detracts from the ability to mine.

What's the point of running away from a mineral hotspot you have just arrived at, trying to outrun the NPC that always arrives with you and attacks you when you have anything but limpets in your cargo hole? Sure you can to run but then you can't mine where you wanted to.

If you had heat sinks available they could provide a solution to your ship overheating while silent running getting rid of excess heat is what they do. The fact that heat sinks are not always the answer to avoiding scans is probably a range thing, after all you can scan/target an NPC DBX if you are close enough, but making you harder to spot is a secondary function.

That doesn't change the fact that I have had bad results with them so that I never used them after testing them. They don't make any sense to avoid being scanned because ejecting a hot heatsink would light up on everyones scanner like a christmas tree and interpolating the trajectory would reveal your position right away. Eject some cargo close to a station and see what happens ...

Some modules are better engineered some are a waste of effort to engineer.

That doesn't mean that engineering can't make them better, does it?

Almost everything we have learned in the game about surviving in a combat situation is against other humans with the same technology base as ourselves. The Thargoids aren’t human and have a different tech base expecting the tactics from one to work against the other is optimistic at best.

Flying without shields gets my ship damaged without combat, and in combat it gets damaged right away, so I either run or die. This doesn't have to do with tactics, it's about using the appropriate equipment. Apparently appropriate equipment is basically not available and the little there is has staggering requirements to get, so it's basically not available either, and that means you're hanging yourself out to dry when you try to fight a Thargoid.

It's nice that there are some special multicannons from rescue ships that might work, but why would I try them out? There needs to be a flight simulator that allows us to try stuff without risk --- and it's insane that there isn't one, which is also something I've been saying for a long time and it won't change. I don't like getting killed, and who's gona pay for the rebuy cost? Waking up in a detention center far away from where you were is humiliating and it's maybe ok as a kind of punishment. But it happens just the same when you haven't done anything wrong or even when you tried to help against the Thargoids. You can't expect people to defend man kind when this very man kind treats them like that.

 

[limpetdwarf]

If you mean for example this video:

then it works perfectly for me. Perhaps there's something wrong with your PC, or perhaps there's a network issue between you and the iniv.space server. One thing you can try in either case would be to right-click on the video and save it to your machine before playing it in a separate video player. This applies to all of the videos in the first couple of posts, of course. (In Firefox, I right-click and choose "Save video as...".)

Other videos work just fine with very few and the only exceptions being videos made from/of Elite dangerous. These files never play and are damaged in some way, dowloaded or not.

You appear to be somewhat frustrated with things not working in the game.

Odyssey works way better than the xbox version and it's outright fantastic now. Of course improvements are always possible.

That's understandable and I've been there several times myself with ED. However, you've missed the value in lots of things as a result - e.g. heat sinks and silent running.

The only use of heat sinks and silent running I found was to try to avoid being scanned and getting into trouble when transporting something illegal. That can easily be avoided buy not transporting something illegal, and in Odyssey you can easily transport illegal things through making use of shuttles.

Once you've saved the video and had a chance to review it, check out what happens in the vicinity of 1:50 (1 minute 50 seconds) into it - silent running is used to great effect to remove caustic damage, after which (with a pause for the neutraliser) a heat sink is used to drop the heat back to safe levels. Ship did not self destruct...

The heat goes back without a heat sink when you turn off silent running. What does it matter that it may take longer when you deliberately make your ship heat up so much that it gets damaged.

General remark: ED has a savage learning curve, and any time you take on a new activity you can face that again even having become expert in other aspects of playing the game. The game has weird quirks and bugs, and will annoy the hell out of most of us on many occasions. Despite that it can be huge fun...
(I've personally enjoyed the majority of my recent foray into AX for the first time, having never done more than run away - terrified - from hyperdictions in the past.)

Good that you're enjoing it. I haven't seen a Thargoid yet and running from one shows that they are extremely dangerous. This guide tells me that there's no sane way to fight one and that I would more likely get killed than anything else, or would have to run. My ship would inevitably get severely damaged or destroyed. 'Stay away from Thargoids' is the learning curve here.