Lower your Expectations for ED

Yes indeed, but after a decade I think Frontier have had a good chance to get further along that path than they have. There is no indication from Frontier of any progress being made towards those goals.

Naturally, however, whoever remains working on ED are in a state of ever mounting excitement :)

Aside from Horizons, Beyond, and Odyssey, that is.

I was always dubious of their proverbial “ten year plan,” myself, and even when Horizons was announced, once you looked at what Frontier was actually saying and ignored Horizons rushed and barebones release target, wasn’t going to be done in two years.

Whether Odyssey’s bungled release killed any future Paid Expansions is another matter entirely.
 
Even if the Odyssey anticipation spike is removed, what has happened since May 2021 still doesn’t look that good compared with 2015 to 2019. If the discussion is about how does Frontier generate interest and sales, why would you want to remove their most successful period ever?
Because in sales and profitability terms it was very unsuccessful

Release+Horizons+Beyond: ED brings in more income than it costs by a variable but decent amount (especially during late Horizons / early Beyond)
Odyssey development: ED's entire income is poured into Odyssey development with basically no operating profit for 2.5 years (and therefore ED's share of non-operating costs being subsidised by the rest of the business)
Odyssey release: pre-orders and first-day orders cover maybe a third of Odyssey's development costs
Post-Odyssey: "standing" ED income is at its lowest level ever, though profitability is up on when they developed Odyssey because they at least aren't spending as much either.

They may have attracted a bunch of interest and active players in the lead-up, but it didn't translate to added sales.

The lesson to learn, surely, is investing in paid expansions is a great path to take, as long as you don’t completely ruin the product with a (insert adjective of your choice) release?
The lesson is probably "you can't spend more on developing a paid expansion than you'll get back in sales"

Every year they spend developing something at "Odyssey pace" (i.e. "a few times slower than the players would like") means they need to sell well over 100,000 copies of the thing they developed at something approaching a £40 full release price, plus later discounted sales and ARX add-ons coming in later ... just to break even. Twice that would probably be the sales target to match the long-term average return on "spending money on Elite Dangerous".

If there's something that Frontier could develop in a year and be confident that they could get 200,000 ED players to pay "new game" price for, I'm sure they'd be doing it: they certainly have the cash reserves to fund it. I have difficulty thinking of anything they could possibly do that quickly which would meet that requirement, though.

Odyssey essentially took three years - and wasn't finished, even then - for something (space legs) that not every ED player was all that interested in. Even had its release quality been up to normal ED standards it'd still almost certainly have made a loss.

The server side of ED likely costs almost nothing
I'm not just talking about the physical servers - though if EDSM costs even a tenth of ED's server budget I'd be incredibly surprised - but also the staff needed to keep them all patched and running, support staff for account questions and handling reports, monitoring of ongoing processes like the BGS tick, etc.

That's not going to be less than £1M/year, and probably more like twice that once things like community managers, support for CGs, Galnet, and other ongoing but not directly chargeable things are accounted for as well.
 
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I suppose I feel honor bound to remind some that the Kickstarter was very clear that ship interiors, planets with atmospheres, and many other so-called "promises" were explicitly to be part of future paid expansions.

Other platforms than windows are a fair point, however.
I have written most of these off as overpromised hype in the heat of the moment. Unlike Star Citizen, the focus of Elite has been to put out a working game, rather than attempting push the boundaries of gaming with technologies like server meshing. Realistically, I don't believe worlds with diverse fauna and cities will be possible with a game that covers as many worlds as the Elite galaxy encompasses without mindless repetition and tons of things that don't work like floating buildings and tress conflicting with structures and other things. When MSFS came out I took a flight down the Delaware river to the Philadelphia area and was surprised to see the Battleship New Jersey was in the game... And quite surprised to see tress growing out of it... Complex, procedurally generated stuff, on the scale of this galaxy would create major headaches.

I do have major issues with the lack of ship interiors and the way they handled getting in and out of our ships. I feel like they either lied about the fact that ships were designed from the start to have them, or they didn't begin to comprehend what it would take to implement them as they were not being play tested or used. It's also quite possible that they didn't finish ships or fully implement them with proper interiors on ships that came later. Maybe they scaled back the ship designs as they considered it wasteful to continue to design something that was not being used. Maybe adding things like military slots and other additional slots was done with a magic wand and now they can't make all of these things work inside of the dimensions of ships.

Either way, I would be happy if they could just fix the missions so I don't fail them because they don't spawn or that I have to do repeated relogs to get them to spawn. That and reduce the grind on foot-based engineering. Maybe look at better balancing ships, adding in some new ones like dedicated miners.

As far as the game being dead... Who knows. I've been on these forums for a very long time and DOOM has been steadily predicted for years. Things like the promised update to a major feature that curiously went from promised to "investigating" feeds that rumor mill along with FDevs famous lack of communications... Certain Youtubers assertions notwithstanding.

As for me, I'm enjoying the game for now and I'll expect that I will continue to do so until I don't. Then, I'll move on. If something pops up that looks interesting, I'll be back. Or not.
 
FDev are delivering exactly in line with my expectations - but I'm playing Legacy, so...

Yeah its a relief isn't it. Odyssey is just random noise in the background.

Sure its always tempting, like finishing off barely chewed bubble gum, but yeah im more interested in whether they will fix certain bugs or not. There's no content there for me though :( Given they pretty much just added a fps mission board, im probably overly positive about elite in general from not having used it with all the bugs people report.
 
I don't bother with expectations. I play ED because it's fun to play now, not for what potential it might have. Once it's no longer fun I'll choose a different game. I'm from the era when you got a floppy disc and installed it; then that was how the game would always be. :)

A big part of the fun for me is that I can fly the Cobra III which was only wireframe the first time; no other space game is going to be able to offer this.
Yep, despite all the promises all I really wanted was better than Oolite with multiplayer. Everything else is gravy. The MP part coulda been better though....

Ody I think woulda done better if they actually delivered it on the initial hardware spec. From my view there was a lot of stamping of feet and pouting when it didn't.
 
FDev's way is the way of the gaming industry overall. Same crap, different methods. Complaining is pointless, nothing is going to change unless it's profitable to do so. Enjoy any game for what it is, or move on. These whiny posts are pointless.
You should be banned from the forums! Such common sense defies expectations! We need rampant speculation and DOOOOOOOM! or the white knights and doomsayers will have nothing to do!


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Sorry, I couldn't resist... I'll just show myself out...
 
I've learned over the years to keep my expectations fairly low for this game, but in the end, it's still the best space game out there. I recently came back after a few years break and am enjoying it again. I bought Odessey, not because I wanted legs, but wanted to do my part in supporting FDEV. I'm flying in Horizons and ignoring the DLC for now.

I'll probably buy the DLC for one of my alts as well. The others will be abandoned. Two is enough.
 
Because in sales and profitability terms it was very unsuccessful
That wasn't because of the concept, which clearly was popular, but the implementation. If U15 is released in a similiar state (which I very much doubt) it will bomb just as badly.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be suggesting that Frontier aren't good enough to cope with expansions like Odyssey.
 
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[...] but in the end, it's still the best space game out there.
That is subjective opinion. Polling data (Steam reviews) would indicate otherwise, at least when it comes to Odyssey. I currently think X4 Foundations is the best space game out there, so if nothing else, our opinions cancel out. Unless by "space game" you mean "planet and solar system simulator", in which case I currently think Space Engine is the best "space game" out there. 🤷‍♂️
 
That is subjective opinion. Polling data (Steam reviews) would indicate otherwise, at least when it comes to Odyssey. If nothing else, I currently think X4 Foundations is the best space game out there
I always find it is fascinating when ex-players who constantly defend another game as 'better' make such comments, instead of just abandoning the game's forum also.

But, as your comparisons are both single player games, perhaps you agree it is the best multiplayer space game?
 
I've learned over the years to keep my expectations fairly low for this game, but in the end, it's still the best space game out there. I recently came back after a few years break and am enjoying it again. I bought Odessey, not because I wanted legs, but wanted to do my part in supporting FDEV. I'm flying in Horizons and ignoring the DLC for now.

I'll probably buy the DLC for one of my alts as well. The others will be abandoned. Two is enough.
I just returned as well, after nearly two years away. After completing everything I wanted for my primary commander, I'm now working on getting my console-copy commander up to speed. Once that's done, my primary commander is heading off into the black for a long trip. If either commander bores me, I still have a third account from steam.

I've already purchased Odyssey for all three accounts. Buggy as ED is, it's worth the cost from my perspective. None of the games I played during my hiatus provided as much enjoyment as ED has. All of them were just as buggy too IMO.
 
That wasn't because of the concept, which clearly was popular, but the implementation.
Right, and now the implementation has been fixed to "normal ED release quality", how's the concept doing? The problem isn't that "space legs" aren't popular, it's that they weren't so universally popular that everyone felt/feels they need the expansion, and there's virtually nothing in it for anyone else.

Horizons had some pretty terrible implementation misses too - the original Engineering caused a lot of ragequits, and a lot of future expense to fix up; Multicrew was a disaster that made the initial Odyssey release look functional - but it also had enough extras for a wide enough range of playstyles that most players did eventually buy it. If you're not interested in getting out of your seat ... what's Odyssey got? It's not nothing, but it's very definitely "wait for it to be on sale for £5" minor extras.

If U15 is released in a similiar state (which I very much doubt) it will bomb just as badly.
Yes, but even in that case, they won't be left with a £9M accounting writeoff as a result, which is a pretty crucial difference for when it comes to considering whether to abandon U16 or not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be suggesting that Frontier aren't good enough to cope with expansions like Odyssey.
Not exactly. More that the ED player base probably isn't (currently) large enough to make expansions like Odyssey economically viable, because the absolute fraction of active players who need to buy it is too high for the amount it would cost to develop - especially without the console players.

That could hypothetically solved by Frontier becoming 2-3x faster at developing ED features on the same headcount (though I doubt that's possible, and that's not a competence issue) ... or it could be solved by increasing the active player base by 2-3x first, so reducing the fraction needed to buy in for profitability ... or it could be solved by finding a combined DLC feature set which was a "must buy" for everyone, but which didn't require more than Odyssey-sized development, but that's probably not an intersection that exists.

If you want an "optimistic" view, I would guess that Frontier's current strategy for ED is roughly as follows:
1) Implement things like the Thargoid War - and maybe in the longer term something like Powerplay Mk 2 as well, given some of their oblique hints - which aren't too expensive to build and can be delivered incrementally, so that the game is in a good state to go mostly "fixes only" for a while (as they did, except for finally getting Fleet Carriers out, in the almost three years between the end of Beyond and the Odyssey release) but still mostly automatically generate some interesting weekly content for the more invested players and more variety for new players.
2) Hope that over a few years that approach increases player numbers on PC to a level which could make another big DLC potentially profitable. No guarantees of this bit actually working, but even if it doesn't, step 1 still strengthens the game and hopefully keeps the current levels of income/profit going for quite a bit longer.
3) If it does, start thinking then about which ones of the many big features that they can't deliver incrementally it should be.
At best I wouldn't expect this to get the next DLC before 2029, but at worst I'd expect the game to still be baseline profitable in 2029.
 
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