Songbirds

[DarthQuell]

I guess this isn't a subject that has really been brought up, but I am very curious, y'all: how would y'all feel if we got songbirds into the game?

Like, be honest. Would a northern cardinal sound appealing? An eastern bluebird? House sparrows? Purple martins?


I know that they aren't the most exciting or exotic birds (especially since we see them in our backyards or public gardens), but considering how some of the butterflies we got are kinda similar (in the fact that we see them in our yards), maybe songbirds would be the same...

I dunno, but let's discuss. And of course, this is all hypothetical, as we don't even know if birds are coming or not

 

[NachoB]

I would love it. Any birds are welcome and some songbirds are among the most pretty birds around. And also they would be perfect for WE.

Some birds:
1. A cardinal species
2. Blue Jay
3. Blue
4. Goldfinch
5. Zebra finch
6. European Robin
7. A tanager species
8. Common sparrow
9. A bluebird
10. A blackbird
11. A chickadee species
12. A swallow species

 

[TheDuckKnight]

They're not high at all on my bird wishlist tbh, but I sure as heck wouldn't stick my nose at them. If it was similar to butterflies, 5 passerines in a WE, that would be incredible.

 

[DarthQuell]

Ok, so let's say they get the butterfly treatment (assuming): what 5 would y'all choose?

 

[TheDuckKnight]

Ok, so let's say they get the butterfly treatment (assuming): what 5 would y'all choose?

I'm biased as an American (and a New Yorker), but I'd say:

• Eastern Bluebird
• Cardinal
• American Robin
• Baltimore Oriole
• Painted Bunting

 

[Chuditch]

Ok, so let's say they get the butterfly treatment (assuming): what 5 would y'all choose?

I'd go for a collection of 5 Australian estrildid finches, which are all fairly similar and could all be made largely off the same base model:

1. Zebra Finch
2. Gouldian Finch
3. Diamond Firetail
4. Star Finch
5. Double-barred Finch

 

[SalamAnders]

Songbirds make up a large chunk of bird species, so they for sure deserve representation. And some appear more exotic than others.

I really feel like Weavers (Ploceidae) could do well on loops, with their nests opening up for animations that aren't just flying, eating, and perching.
I probably wouldn't expect all 5 at once, since I guess it would be much more complicated than butterflies, but just getting 2 would be cool.
But let's go with 5 for the fun of it. Then Frontier can mix and match as they like.

I don't know much about weavers in captivity outside of Europe, so my arguments here are from a European perspective. (pics from zootierliste)

Village Weaver - Your common in captivity, recognizable go-to choice.

White-headed buffalo-weaver - Not as common but still realistic, and they got a story to tell with their relations to buffalos.

Red-billed quelea - Fairly common in captivity and stands out from the rest.

Red Fody - Common in captivity and can be used in Madagascar houses or similar.

Fire-crowned bishop - Another colorful choice.

I'm no expert in weavers so some might behave too differently or be more complicated than others, and I could have missed out on some obvious choices.
But I feel like this is a good mix of colors within the realistic spectrum with some flexibility for use.
I don't really know how many of these species can be housed together, but I believe some can, and nobody is forcing us to use them all at once anyway.

 

[Marvinb]

I think when/if we get aviarys, a couple songbirds would actually be pretty cool. Cant be all macaws and bald eagles after all

 

[SalamAnders]

I think when/if we get aviarys, a couple songbirds would actually be pretty cool. Cant be all macaws and bald eagles after all

Why would we need some type of new aviary for songbirds? They are as fitting for the exhibit as bats and butterflies

 

[Marvinb]

Why would we need some type of new aviary for songbirds? They are as fitting for the exhibit as bats and butterflies

Bad wording on my part sorry. I meant aviary birds not new exhibits

 

[Antimony96]

Bali myna is an obvious one.

 

[DarthQuell]

So here's what I'm thinking, y'all:
The advantage to songbirds is that most, if not all, look similar, in size, shape, etc.
Some slight differences, but that shouldn't even be much (like, cardinals and blue Jays have crests while eastern bluebirds and American goldfinches do not).

The biggest issue is the sounds, methinks. So, could songbirds reasonably get the butterfly treatment? Or no?

 

[NachoB]

I think they could.

Tbh more than using them for an actual exhibit i can imagine using them in a similar way we can use the butterflies to create the ilussion that they are freeroaming placing a WE without walls and hidden among foliage.

 

[DarthQuell]

I think they could.

Tbh more than using them for an actual exhibit i can imagine using them in a similar way we can use the butterflies to create the ilussion that they are freeroaming placing a WE without walls and hidden among foliage.

That's exactly how I picture them. "Free-flying" animals for local zoos, but then in "exotic" zoos they could be the perfect aviary species

 

[Chuditch]

So here's what I'm thinking, y'all:
The advantage to songbirds is that most, if not all, look similar, in size, shape, etc.
Some slight differences, but that shouldn't even be much (like, cardinals and blue Jays have crests while eastern bluebirds and American goldfinches do not).

The biggest issue is the sounds, methinks. So, could songbirds reasonably get the butterfly treatment? Or no?

It really depends, because "songbirds" as a whole encompasses the entire suborder Passeri, which collectively includes more than 4,000 species, nearly half of all birds. They share the same ancestral body plan, but their proportions, size and appearance vary dramatically, to the same degree as ungulates or carnivorans. For example, the birds below (aside from the photobombing raptor) are all songbirds:

You could probably have certain groups of songbirds, such as finches, weavers, sunbirds or honeyeaters, receive the butterfly treatment (in fact they're probably the best group for it after small parrots and hummingbirds), but the order as a whole is far too varied. Even things like blue jays and cardinals are drastically different to one another if you give them more than a momentary glance.

 

[SalamAnders]

The biggest issue is the sounds, methinks. So, could songbirds reasonably get the butterfly treatment? Or no?

Even hardcore ornithologists can only tell some species apart by the sound of them, so some birds look close enough to share a model only with minor edits. Though it will of course make the most sense to go for species where at least the colors are different. Telling birds apart only by sound will be annoying in PZ.
And if they need a bit more work than butterflies, then getting just 2 or 3 species at once instead of 5 will also be great. We don't want a Tapir incident after all.

I doubt sounds are going to be a major issue. Sounds are such an important part of identifying songbirds, so there are a lot of resources for it. And Frontier already dived into bird sounds with the ambient noises on every map.

 

[Spiderhawk]

VINS center in Vermont (Vermont institute of natural science) is a raptor rehabilitation center, last year they completed a walk through song bird aviary. I went to check it out over the winter and it is very well done and a nice variety of song birds.
Il update the list of what they had but I think songbirds set of 5 would make an excellent walkthrough exhibit.

 

[DarthQuell]

You could probably have certain groups of songbirds, such as finches, weavers, sunbirds or honeyeaters, receive the butterfly treatment (in fact they're probably the best group for it after small parrots and hummingbirds),

This is actually what I was thinking of

 

[Chuditch]

This is actually what I was thinking of

In that case yeah, I'd think that'd work really well. A big bunch of finches or wrens will be small and quick moving enough to not make loops obvious, and most look fairly similar to one another.

 

[Cynogale bennettii II]

I think finches/buntings/sparrow would probably be the best songbirds for a 'butterfly treatment', where multiple species are basically a reskin with a different voice. My six choices (one for each inhabited continent) would be:

1. Painted bunting - Least Concern North and Central American bird; inhabits Temperate and Tropical biomes
2. Red siskin - Endangered South American bird; inhabits Grassland and Tropical biomes
3. European greenfinch - Least Concern bird from Europe, West Asia and North Africa; inhabits Grassland, Taiga and Temperate biomes
4. Red-cheeked cordon-bleu - Least Concern bird from sub-Saharan Africa; inhabits Grassland biomes
5. Java sparrow - Endangered bird from Southeast Asia; inhabits Grassland and Tropical biomes
6. Gouldian finch - Least Concern Australian bird; inhabits the Grassland biome

That would give six very different and colourful birds that could have a place in different areas of a zoo, or be combined in a more traditional aviary complex.

I'd also love to see a wide range of Southeast Asian songbirds (such as the Bali starling, chestnut-backed thrush, Javan green magpie and a pitta) as the conservation of these birds is becoming a big thing in European zoos, but they would need lots of different models to work properly.