AX Restoration tactics

[photomankc]

I had figured that out... On reflection, I'm just not interested in doing these missions as they are setup right now. There is no point in doing them. They provide nothing that standard missions do, sounds like material hunting is not something that is worth doing on them and the repeated hyperdictions are annoying. I'd rather play solitaire than be repeatedly hyperdicted.

Fair enough. I found the Mil settlements I was at to have a lot of high quality data and goods and was worth a bit of scavenging while I ran the missions and they pay enough to be worthwhile, pretty on par with Python sized metal delivery missions plus material rewards.

I agree that the Hyperdictions get old fast. At least the Interdiction has some possibility of evading, I got pretty close to evading it last night but it got too far gone after I messed up but I keep trying. Hyperdiction is just a complete PITA given it also steals your fuel.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Fair enough. I found the Mil settlements I was at to have a lot of high quality data and goods and was worth a bit of scavenging while I ran the missions and they pay enough to be worthwhile, pretty on par with Python sized metal delivery missions plus material rewards.

I agree that the Hyperdictions get old fast. At least the Interdiction has some possibility of evading, I got pretty close to evading it last night but it got too far gone after I messed up but I keep trying. Hyperdiction is just a complete PITA given it also steals your fuel.

It seems like regular restore missions in a thargoid recovery are not dropping the goods like a couple of weeks ago. Could just be the RNG gods are not being nice or I'm lacking the required sacrificial virgins... I don't know.

I just can't see doing these much, the hyperdictions and the fact that you can only really do them one way makes them a nonstarter for me.

 

[BDelacroix]

They are fun with a bit if hinkiness.

 

[Ydiss]

Stealth is the way.

This is the way.

 

[Ydiss]

Edit: Renamed the thread since it went an entirely different direction.

Sorry about that

It's been a really useful thread though so thanks!

If they added actual Thargoids to the game (that existed inside buildings) along with some new weapons and suit upgrades (yeh I know, more grind but I think I'd be willing to do that) then on foot would be revitalised in a big way.

That said, I'd love a suit upgrade to move way faster on foot, all this running about is annoying

 

[MVBanks]

I tried to bring my own Xeno Defence Protocols, AX Combat Logs, Settlement Defence Plans, to upload it on security data port, to give instructions to settlement how to fight, but it's not possible, everything is grey, upload is excluded.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Sorry about that

It's been a really useful thread though so thanks!

If they added actual Thargoids to the game (that existed inside buildings) along with some new weapons and suit upgrades (yeh I know, more grind but I think I'd be willing to do that) then on foot would be revitalised in a big way.

That said, I'd love a suit upgrade to move way faster on foot, all this running about is annoying

It would be cool if you could direct the thrust of the jet pack instead of vertical.

 

[Ydiss]

It would be cool if you could direct the thrust of the jet pack instead of vertical.

Yeh, just in whatever way you're facing would be better.

 

[GroG79]

A salvo of ax missiles kills all goid skimmers

 

[Ydiss]

I think I've worked something out, might need more testing though.

Edit: Deleted as proved incorrect.

As an aside, in 2 of the 4 missions I completed without the SRV getting destroyed, I was seen by revenants and successfully escaped them, either into a building or just by running out of range. In the second instance (running out of range) I was actually within 200m of the SRV when I stopped, yet the reavers ignored it (it must still have been out of LOS, luckily). My conclusion here is they won't destroy your SRV in the even that they engage you on foot, unless of course they see it anyway.

Ultimately, I think it's potentially OK to park up much closer with your SRV, so long as it's definitely out of line of sight from revenants (and if you don't trigger this seek and destroy behaviour, which I'm still working out how it happens).

A salvo of ax missiles kills all goid skimmers

Good to know. I wonder if the interceptor would still come and drop off more though. Would render this null, if they did.

I imagine someone experienced at AX ship combat in a fully kitted out 'goid killer ship and who also likes on foot content would have a field day doing these missions. I just run from any interdictions and my ship is strong enough to evade any 'goids that engage during these missions but it'd be cool to fight them at the same time. Not my calling though, I'm afraid.

 

[Pville_Piper]

I think I've worked something out, might need more testing though.

I believe that downloading illegal data, that normally sets off settlement alarms, triggers the reavers to seek and destroy your SRV if it's too close.


Reavers will see your SRV if they're in line of sight and within around 700m or so, so some here have said they leave the SRV 800m out and approach the rest of the way on foot. Now, I'm not really a fan of a 1600m trek with every one of these missions so I've been trying to see how close I can safely park my SRV, out of line of sight of course. I completed 4 missions tonight, all successfully, and in each case I parked the SRV as close as I reasonably could and kept it out of line of sight. I got as close as about 3-400m in one case, as the settlement was situated on terrain that fell away gently right outside the "flat zone", making it a solid approach to remain out of sight.

This worked 3/4 times.

The time it didn't work, I got the notification that my SRV was under attack when I was still inside the PWR centre. This was really confusing as I'd left it well out of sight, hadn't been seen at all up to that point and none of the reavers I'd observed on the way in would have gotten anywhere near to it. But, what I had done, seconds before this happened, was download data from the PWR data port and I'm sure it was flagged as illegal. Obviously, there's no consequence to doing this in an abandoned settlement but in this case I think it triggered the reavers to seek and engage.

What I reckon is happening is the reavers are re-purposed skimmer code (and I think that's obvious based on their default behaviour) and somewhere in that code, FD left this behaviour intact. For me, it makes no sense whatsoever for them to behave this way but I'm sure that normal skimmers would do this if they went hot. I may sacrifice an SRV tomorrow to try to test if this is repeatable.

If it is... it's a simple rule: Don't download illegal data on these missions.

As an aside, in 2 of the 4 missions I completed without the SRV getting destroyed, I was seen by reavers and successfully escaped them, either into a building or just by running out of range. In the second instance (running out of range) I was actually within 200m of the SRV when I stopped, yet the reavers ignored it (it must still have been out of LOS, luckily). My conclusion here is they won't destroy your SRV in the even that they engage you on foot, unless of course they see it anyway.

Ultimately, I think it's potentially OK to park up much closer with your SRV, so long as it's definitely out of line of sight from reavers (and if you don't trigger this seek and destroy behaviour, which I'm still working out how it happens).



Good to know. I wonder if the interceptor would still come and drop off more though. Would render this null, if they did.

I imagine someone experienced at AX ship combat in a fully kitted out 'goid killer ship and who also likes on foot content would have a field day doing these missions. I just run from any interdictions and my ship is strong enough to evade any 'goids that engage during these missions but it'd be cool to fight them at the same time. Not my calling though, I'm afraid.

Try turning off the alarms...

 

[MVBanks]

I think it's the same scenario like when you have a mission to attack human military settlement, to kill one of them or to kill them all. There are security ships above, usually Anacondas, and if you attack with your ship and destroy them, another ships will come again and again and you can't win. Also, if you start to fight from SRV, patrolling ships will destroy your SRV from above. It's easy to solve it on foot, be it in stealth mode (if requirement is to not raise the alarms) or even in loud mode if you enjoy to fight the whole settlement plus 3 waves of reinforcements.
I tried the same in thargoid controlled settlements, I killed revenants with ax missiles, as cmdr GroG79 suggested, but then 3 interceptors appeared and one of them was Medusa and I can't fight Medusa with ax missiles and ax multicannons. In another case 5 scouts - I killed them, but then another scouts and interceptor jumped in. All in all, there's no sense to fight in the air. Would be interesting to try with group of friends, different ships and loadouts, to fight above settlement, to see if it would finish like usual planetary AX CZ, with two hydras at the end, or they would continue to come in endless waves, because it's not AX CZ?
As cmdr photomankc wrote, stealth is the way, it's easy to solve it in stealth mode, but it's boring. For players who need power regulators it's good, because I found some of this missions offer 5 PRs as a reward.

 

[texasp8]

I've tried this mission three times. Died every time, but I think I've picked up enough to know that I won't be bothering with them. Provided you have use a Maverick suit so you can open the buildings, the Stealth element is quite easy, and there doesn't seem to be any point in attacking the drones.

My last attempt I was attacked from the sky whilst driving the SRV away from the settlement (the attack started at around 800m out). Not sure what I could have done to avoid this.

All in all, and considering the constant interdictions (yes, I get it, there's a war on; no need to remind me quite so often), the mission is not fun enough for me to keep trying. I appreciate that this is new on-foot content that I have been waiting for, but on this occasion, it's not for me.

 

[BDelacroix]

The cases of dead srv were all scouts for me. Same for the ship. Landed >1km away. Scouts appeared (2) and destroyed ship before we could get to it. For perspective. The previous time we had an interceptor circling above that followed us on foot. It, too shot at the ship but didn't destroy it. We are all well aware of the increased scout damage so that makes sense in the current environment.

 

[Ydiss]

Try turning off the alarms...

I did think this but I'm 99% sure none of the usual panels used in on foot game play are active in AX missions. I know that the defences ones aren't active as I saw them last night and they were all off, despite the power being enabled. I will actually check this later to be sure.

The cases of dead srv were all scouts for me. Same for the ship. Landed >1km away. Scouts appeared (2) and destroyed ship before we could get to it. For perspective. The previous time we had an interceptor circling above that followed us on foot. It, too shot at the ship but didn't destroy it. We are all well aware of the increased scout damage so that makes sense in the current environment.

This may have been what happened to me in the 1/4 I lost my SRV (I wouldn't know as I was inside the building so couldn't see).

Honestly, if this is the case then this is just bad design and needs to be changed. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop this short of having someone in a ship defending you as you do the mission and that's just flat out bad. I'm generally against the concept that the SRV gets targeted at all, if I'm honest. I know why this happened in the game (circle of combat malarkey) but I just don't think it works well for game play. If you're in or very close to the SRV then it should be targeted but otherwise it should be left alone. We cannot be expected to defend our SRV whilst doing these AX missions. It's just not practical and is a huge pain point for players trying to enjoy settlement based content. It adds nothing to the game. At least with ships we can dismiss and recall but the SRV is just a sitting duck and losing it mid mission is very frustrating.

So much more could be done with this. NPCs could see the empty SRV and set up an ambush when you return, I'd like that. But taking it out when you're nowhere near it (and scouts coming to destroy it) just feels like getting trolled.

 

[texasp8]

I did think this but I'm 99% sure none of the usual panels used in on foot game play are active in AX missions. I know that the defences ones aren't active as I saw them last night and they were all off, despite the power being enabled. I will actually check this later to be sure.

A settlement I powered on last night, all the panels I checked became active, and Alarms, Defence, etc were on by default.

 

[Ydiss]

A settlement I powered on last night, all the panels I checked became active, and Alarms, Defence, etc were on by default.

It must have been a bug then.

I also noted that using the atmospheric controls didn't properly expel fires in the building, only the ones in the same room as me.

Honestly, I don't think this should even be in the AX mission game loop anyway. Why are we disabling alarms used for human NPCs to stop getting attacked by AX? Note: the alarms never sounded when I downloaded the illegal data and none of the revenants were red when I exited the building.

Anyway, it may not actually be this at all. It might just have been random scouts coming to destroy my SRV (which seems much more probable than my theory above) and I added my thoughts on that in my post above yours. All this mechanic feels like is being trolled and there's nothing you can do to avoid it, short of just accepting we have to trek around 2km every single mission and I just don't think that's fun at all.

If there was something we could do to prevent scouts turning up then fine, I'd be up for that. Such as destroying some AX relay device located in the settlement. But I'd prefer it if the SRV simply wasn't targeted unless we were in or near it (and defintely don't want these new RNG uber assassin scouts attacking it, there is absolutely nothing you can do to defend against that at all)

Maybe they added this to make these missions forced for teams who ran AX ships as well but if they did this then they misunderstand the number of players willing to actually do that in EDO on foot game play, I think. I'm pretty sure most EDO players play solo and just want to enjoy the on foot element and this random scout event doesn't enhance the experience in any way. It's just a pain point for the sake of being a pain point (and random to boot).

This does happen in normal reactivation missions (but it's scavs that are dropped in) but at least in those you can park your SRV very close to the building you're in, so you can react to it. It's an acceptable element of on foot game play then, I think (and I am quite happy to step out of the building to disabuse said scavs of their right to attack my SRV when it happens ) But these scouts are simply unavoidable in any practical terms and you cannot even fight back when on foot (or reasonably react by getting to your ship to fight them, for very obvious reasons).

I hope they see this and change it.

 

[CMDR Astraea Astralis]

Sorry about that

No apologies needed, figured the thread was much more useful this way

 

[Pville_Piper]

Honestly, if this is the case then this is just bad design and needs to be changed. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop this short of having someone in a ship defending you as you do the mission and that's just flat out bad. I'm generally against the concept that the SRV gets targeted at all, if I'm honest. I know why this happened in the game (circle of combat malarkey) but I just don't think it works well for game play. If you're in or very close to the SRV then it should be targeted but otherwise it should be left alone. We cannot be expected to defend our SRV whilst doing on foot missions. It's just not practical and is a huge pain point for players trying to enjoy settlement based content. It adds nothing to the game. At least with ships we can dismiss and recall but the SRV is just a sitting duck and losing it mid mission is very frustrating.

So much more could be done with this. NPCs could see the empty SRV and set up an ambush when you return, I'd like that. But taking it out when you're nowhere near it (and scouts coming to destroy it) just feels like getting trolled.

It's bad game play design. Like chain hyperdictions, it's just stupid. There's no way to avoid them, so what's the point? Years ago, everybody pretty much had it with the chain interdictions by pirates, they were largely done away with. If you're not going to fight on the first five, why would you on the next 10? Either get rid of the chain hyperdiction and randomize the one you get, or give us a mechanic, such as stealth to avoid them. It would be cool to drop into a system, honk and then go to orray map and see where they are and figure out how to get around them (or attack them). Heck, even getting the ship below a certain heat signature in super cruise would be better than nothing.

Getting your ship blown up because it decides to take forever to land or decides to land 1.5 km away, in a pile of rocks, despite the fact that where you are is pancake flat and no rocks at all, is bad gameplay. The game already has a way to pick you and your SRV up without landing and should do that automatically when under fire. It's heart breaking to get your SRV stuck on a rock while your ships shields/hull melt and there is nothing you can do. Another thing should be added, since we have combat drops, is why can't this be added as an insertion type. Come in and hover with the gear up and hit the deploy from the lower panel for either you or the SRV.

This whole endless wave of scouts needs to go. I can't stand this mechanic. there is no sense of accomplishment, at some time you just have to cut and run. The whole mission was based soley on the idea that you only do it by sneaking in and out and any attempt to do it any other way is met with overwhelming firepower. The fact that after you land, an interceptor arrives and soon a scout, the longer you're there and the more revs you kill, you get more scouts which loiter nearby that will attack your ship the second it drops from super cruise.

But don't worry, should you lose your ship, you can run several kms away from the settlement to complete the mission and then slowly suffocate to death to get back to the terminal. Awesome gameplay FDev! How about this, if your ship gets destroyed and you've a spare crewmember and a ship with more than 1 seat, have them pick you up.

Finally, why do the defenses not attack the goids once powered up? It makes no sense (but neither does the mission). Why can't you download a file to x terminal and get them to attack the goids and drive them off so your ship can come in and get you. Or maybe you have to go to each weapon, open an access panel, pull out one of the tools and put it into alt mode, and zap the controls to unfreeze them?

I can't imagine how much more fun and interesting this mission would be if these suggestions were implemented. And most of it involves things already in the game. I'm always amazed at how narrowly the missions are thought through. Want to fight the ships? No problem, half the thargoid fleet shows up to debuse you of such notions. Like being silly and wanting to run over a skimmer with your ship... No problem, you just loose control and your shields, have fun at the rebuy screen!!!

 

[MVBanks]

I just came back from such a mission, and defence panels were black, disabled, after powering up. My SRV was 1,2 km away and destroyed however. I walked 1 km out to recall my ship but stupid ship landed closer to settlement and attacked. I dissmissed it, and walked again 500 m, recalled the ship and it was attacked from something in the air, haven't seen from scouts or interceptor, I dismissed again, and third time, after further walking, it was successful.
Then I visited another settlement, large extraction (without mission) just to see what's there - but no revenants, I left my SRV in the middle of the village. Powered it up with my own regulator, opened the doors with e-breaches etc., but nothing really interesting there. From time to time I've received the message about frameshift anomalies, but no attack. I checked data ports and lockers but nothing new, just usual things.
And needless to say - lot of hyper/interdictions on the way there and back. I use Dolphin for this missions, it's fast enough, cold, long jump range, easy to land. But any small and fast ship is good. I hope to see CG soon, for ax ship stabilisers, that we can avoid interdictions. Probably hyperdictions are not possible to avoid, because FDev want to have some tools to waste our time.
I had some hope that we will be able to upload data to security ports - like xeno-defence protocols, ax combat logs, to instruct the settlement defences how to fight, but upload is not possible.
However, this missions..........are stupid.