Update 15 Thargoid Scout damage.

[Jack Winter]

But some of those bugs are a consequence of all the hardware and software compatibility that they have to abide to, while others from the humongous amount of code they have to swim through.

I would guess the bigger the project and company, the bigger and better the QA department. Seems that my impressions in that regard are erroneous...

Yes that's true, but some of MS's bugs have been absolutely mind bending, and affecting things far more important than something like game play. As regards ED, I again come back to my thought that it depends on the revenue that the game is generating. They probably have to balance how much they invest in design, development, artwork, sound, public relations, quality assurance, etc. I'd hope it's a mistake and that it'll get rectified in the next "hot fix". In the meantime I'll just do something else like explore the maelstrom. The scouts do knock down my modules and hull on the way, but I repair those once arrived.

In the end the sad story is that biowaste happens and everyone involved could probably do be better, but it is what it is..

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I'd rather dump all over RSI, lol

You mean CIG (Clown Imperium Games) ?...

 

[Wisho]

I'll vote for the big blunder way of seeing things too.
I'm just not a programmer but the first QA basic is non-regression : run the thing and check what previously worked still does.

What does FD call QA ? Because here it missed a complete solo-game breaker to anything Thargoid-related, which is somewhat the main current event and features of E: D.
Any kind of 5-minutes testing would have stumbled upon the Frankenscouts : login and check the Glaive pops and flies and behaves as expected, see if this or that CZ feature works, this or that bug is fixed or not, or even just step into Tharg territory and get interdicted... and meet the rebuy screen 10 times before you're done with your test. Critical general regression, no-go, end of the story.

Biowaste happens but storms of it shouldn't - but already have : godlike-engineered NPCs, heat meta.
I won't change my mind : the only way FD could miss this one is they just don't have (or use) a pre-release platform. Biggest possible blunder, they need to learn they need one.

 

[tolm]

The biggest issue for me with the whole “group of scouts” compared to “cyclops” is the ability to avoid damage.

Disregarding the Thargon Swarm, popping a Heatsink to stay cold and attempting to orbit the Cyclops (I can’t orbit but I can thrust downwards and spin …) will keep most of the Cyclops main cannon fire off you.

But whilst you’re doing that, these days, there’s half-a-dozen or so Scouts happily ripping your hull to shreds.

I’m assuming this “balancing” is because we all have Caustic Sink launchers now so are less bothered by the caustic missiles, but honestly this feels worse … makes it a massive pain to run CZs …

 

[YRM_DM]

still recovering from my scout bashing last night, no way will i clear an AX CZ now solo, geez they are well mental, radar was just red flashing triangles all the time, its either scouts or interceptors at a time, after 4 rebuys i gave up and logged out, they need to be pacified otherwise no more AX for me, even in open i could see other cmdrs going down often and quickly

Agreed on this. I managed not to re-buy but the issue is beyond rediculous. I'm done even trying in the AX. I had just spent a crap-load of time and money trying to enter this part of Elite but all of that is wasted now. The problem is that after the interceptors come, the AX pilots target those only, but can't even kill one (not even a single heart), so all of the scout clouds are free to grow and focus on the player. 4-5 scouts focusing on a player forces you to dock or leave combat entirely. If this was an intentional update per requests from AX experts, to keep newer players from entering their super elite club, good job... kill 432534534534634634563464357654374563456 thargoids by yourself then.

 

[YRM_DM]

I'll vote for the big blunder way of seeing things too.
I'm just not a programmer but the first QA basic is non-regression : run the thing and check what previously worked still does.

What does FD call QA ? Because here it missed a complete solo-game breaker to anything Thargoid-related, which is somewhat the main current event and features of E: D.
Any kind of 5-minutes testing would have stumbled upon the Frankenscouts : login and check the Glaive pops and flies and behaves as expected, see if this or that CZ feature works, this or that bug is fixed or not, or even just step into Tharg territory and get interdicted... and meet the rebuy screen 10 times before you're done with your test. Critical general regression, no-go, end of the story.

Biowaste happens but storms of it shouldn't - but already have : godlike-engineered NPCs, heat meta.
I won't change my mind : the only way FD could miss this one is they just don't have (or use) a pre-release platform. Biggest possible blunder, they need to learn they need one.

Yeah, they either did it on purpose yet again to punish players for finally having some mild success, or they did it by accident by not QAing any aspect of the new patch. Either way, count me out of the AX fight. The Thargoids can have the bubble.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Yes that's true, but some of MS's bugs have been absolutely mind bending, and affecting things far more important than something like game play.

Very true. Like BSODs, total data loss, damaged OS booting, automatic SSD defragging, etc...

Some nasty horror stories that were only alleviated after some additional layers in QA testing were added.

As regards ED, I again come back to my thought that it depends on the revenue that the game is generating. They probably have to balance how much they invest in design, development, artwork, sound, public relations, quality assurance, etc.

I agree. It seems that they are treading a fine line in what they can invest/plan for in the game.

Too bad they don't have 500 millions in "contributions", like that ponzi scheme "project"...

I'd hope it's a mistake and that it'll get rectified in the next "hot fix". In the meantime I'll just do something else like explore the maelstrom. The scouts do knock down my modules and hull on the way, but I repair those once arrived.

I hope it gets corrected too. And there are other activities besides AX combat.

In the end the sad story is that biowaste happens and everyone involved could probably do be better, but it is what it is..

Let's hope for the best...

 

[Wisho]

It looks to me that the Scouts have been given a new four-shot primary weapon with a faster shot speed, which could well be intended, however they also have their previous weapon in addition to the new one. I can see those three smaller, slower shots in between the new weapon, on a different reload rate and firing in and out of phase with it. I could try to capture a video when I get an appropriate moment, if anyone is interested.

Hey, nice finding here, thanks !
I took the liberty of taking your point to the issue tracker's contributions, including a link to your post here.

Regarding the video footage, as FD seems to be the last to know I guess they would be the most interested ones to have it.
Sure we players could get comfort in seeing captured what we all saw however

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I am amid a landfall harvest at the moment with time aplenty to observe what the Scouts are doing. I think I can see the problem—and it is indeed an obvious-looking problem now that I see it.

It looks to me that the Scouts have been given a new four-shot primary weapon with a faster shot speed, which could well be intended, however they also have their previous weapon in addition to the new one. I can see those three smaller, slower shots in between the new weapon, on a different reload rate and firing in and out of phase with it. I could try to capture a video when I get an appropriate moment, if anyone is interested.

Wow, that's weird. I spent a few hours in a planetary CZ yesterday, but I didn't notice. I will try to look for it tonight. That would certainly explain their vastly increased damage.

I was (as I said) in a planetary CZ for a few hours yesterday in a PG, and all players were more or less primed to not ignore the scouts. Everyone regularly broke off and mopped up scouts, and they still ate quite a good chunk of everyone's hull. I had two occasions where I just about made it to the landing pad with single digit hulls. I literally had to dock to repair more than to restock my heatsinks.

I really, really hope we get a hotfix for that.

 

[Sublime]

Why are they taking so long to even acknowledge such a glaring change?

 

[BDelacroix]

Why are they taking so long to even acknowledge such a glaring change?

This has been utmost on many a mind.

 

[Wisho]

I guess because they're still searching where this comes from.
The latest player-base-reported abnormal behaviour was the research limpets sometimes returning without the expected tissue sample - but not randomly. Some players got a consistent 90% tissue, others 2%, and everything in between. I personally get a little less than 60%.
FD never gave the beginning of an explanation to this, nor mention it to be fixed. Worse : after a while they officially turned it into a feature, as in "yeah the limpet can fail in its biopsy and anyway return in shame".

 

[Pville_Piper]

Why are they taking so long to even acknowledge such a glaring change?

Well, it may be a bit cynical, but they are sitting back and watching to see if this kills player interest or just the usual forum diatribes...

 

[William J Smith]

I'll go back to my analysis
The thargoids are getting better at fighting humans because we've become so much better at fighting them.
Or would you really prefer a CZ where 3 or 4 all shard 'condas do a combined single shot everything upto a hydra?
Because thats the one way of putting me off AX combat .. if its too easy....
Elite dangerous for me is all about risk. I choose to fly in open at Shin dez because its a risk. I choose to do power play in open because its a risk. I choose to engineer in open because its a risk
Remove the risk and it removes the fun.

In any case , it gives me a fun job to do with my 6 plasma chargers of skeet shoot the scouts while they try bothering the shard 'condas

Bill

 

[Danieros]

Why are they taking so long to even acknowledge such a glaring change?

There's a mention at another thread that seems to indicate it's unintended "reports of an unexpected increase in Thargoid Scout aggression".

 

[Wisho]

Or would you really prefer a CZ where 3 or 4 all shard 'condas do a combined single shot everything upto a hydra?

Because my playing condition doesn't let me neither team up nor develop high skill, I'd prefer a kind of easy CZ where I can play - I'm OK with the coexistence of as-many-as-you-want other kinds of CZ or whatever the hardcore players will find up to them. It's then up to them to choose to either grind the low-level stuff or go where their real fun is.
Right now, I can barely step into Thargoid territory, I get instantly *ss-kicked by the lowest minions...

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

Wait, what, people are still playing the AXCZ's war - I can't believe it, I was a Scout Hunter 'support' in Open or Scout Hunter in Solo Invasion AXCZ for 18 bludy weeks as I couldn't get to Interceptors (stuck with EAXMC's) and enjoyed my little contributions.
BUT THIS - I am elsewhere catching up on Eng and Mats - DISASTROUS Scout update no.15.

Sampling with any Scouts around - get off! rubbish.

Why doesn't everyone just stop until they fix it!!! If no-one goes to the war, they will have to.

EDIT - its Monday, so FDev are maybe reviewing the last week.
Give it a few days for Hotfix - (sorry to spoil game immersion AXI's, but my immersion was spoiled last week) .
----Looking forward to seeing Maelstrom as I have got 5 MESA and 100 Propulsion Elements, but will now go looking for Thargoid Sensors for Fragments.

 

[shockbait]

I'll go back to my analysis
The thargoids are getting better at fighting humans because we've become so much better at fighting them.
Or would you really prefer a CZ where 3 or 4 all shard 'condas do a combined single shot everything upto a hydra?
[...]

I've been playing AXCZs in Solo since the war began,(I have satellite internet, I cause massive desync in Open, so no Open CZs for me) so again, your invented problem that there will be 3-4 imbecilic murder boats that need to be balanced around is a non-starter, and complete nonsense.

I fight thargoids in SMALL SHIPS, prior to Update 15, it was FUN to clear AXCZs in a Viper4 or Imperial Eagle. I even built an all guardian moduled Sidewinder that could kill a Cyclops(albeit I needed to repair/rearm three times during the fight). It was not "Too Easy", it was an appropriate level of challenge for being the "Starter" war zones.

If you think it's "Too Easy", then maybe take your ridiculously overpowered cheese wagon to more appropriate areas, hell, go fight Interceptors IN the Maelstrom, tough guy.
Planetary Port CZs specifically, and to a lesser extent Outpost CZs, were tuned specifically for new players/less experienced pilots. Thats why the Interceptors there were handicapped.

 

[Weps]

Adding my voice to the choir... as I played my first AXCZ since update. This change just sucks the fun out of AX combat and it looks like my war days are over (unless a balance pass comes).

Sally's comment does make it sound like the change is intended - in which case, they completely missed the mark. Some points (I haven't read the whole thread so maybe I'm just repeating what others have said):

• insane damage aside, these things seem to hit all the time. Before the update I used to be able to engage silent running and evade some of the scout fire, now all their shots seem to land (maybe it's the projectile speed?). Anyway, Sirius Corp can take their engineered sinks and throw them into the maelstrom, they're useless to me now.
• there has been no though given to the human ships in AXCZs. They're the same numbers and strength as before. I'd argue that even before the update, they were poorly balanced, as with medium intensity CZs upwards, there was a real risk of losing all your human companions. You really had to keep an eye out for frameshift anomalies and take out the scouts right after they dropped, or risk having them overrun the ships aggroed on the interceptors. Now, it doesn't matter anymore. 20-30s into the anomalies and all green dots are gone, leaving a sea of red blips, 2-3 interceptors, 12 scouts... IDK... all trying to get a piece of you. Not my idea of fun.
• even if by some miracle, some human ships do manage to stay alive, there's another one teeny-tiny overlooked detail: Tharg aggro is completely bonkers anyway. Used to be so before the patch too. Have fun being chased around the CZ by what is now essentially a station gun battery...

Which brings me to what was the nail in the coffin for the evening:

I took one lousy mission to kill one lousy Cyclops. All of the above occurred. I had to bob and weave, disengage and repair, trying occasionally to help some NPC and failing...

So I finally get the last heart on a Cyclops but because of all the commotion, disaster! I had not reloaded my shard and with the remaining rounds, I only manage to drop it's hull to 1% before the panic shields! Now because of the aggro, the entire CZ is after me so ruuuun! And wouldn't you know it... somehow a lonely Viper managed to stay alive and steals the kill while I eat caustic projectiles and spool up my drive...

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Hey, nice finding here, thanks !
I took the liberty of taking your point to the issue tracker's contributions, including a link to your post here.

Regarding the video footage, as FD seems to be the last to know I guess they would be the most interested ones to have it.
Sure we players could get comfort in seeing captured what we all saw however

Thank you! Also here is one, captured just after a harvest in 65 Kappa Tauri today. You can see it best towards the end of that, with the darker background and after it has passed by the blurry Cyclops trail; its two weapons look different and have different rate, reload, speed and volley size.