Glaives (Hunter class ships) are overpowered and...
- Thread starter Uiros Ueramos
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lets play a game
if the glaive was supposed to keep you in place, that means grom missiles, lightning, shields and speed stays
what would you like to change for glaive to be more to your liking?
if the glaive was supposed to keep you in place, that means grom missiles, lightning, shields and speed stays
what would you like to change for glaive to be more to your liking?
I have played around a bit with the Glaives. They are tough, nasty little critters. I have provoked encounters in both my shielded evac Python and my unshielded AX Krait. In all cases I did not try to run, I always stayed to fight or at least get a feel for dealing with them.
A double encounter is really tough. Unless you are in a dedicated fighter, I would run. I tried to fight two of them on my first encounter with the Python, and it ended in a rebuy. Subsequent hyperdictions in the Python were single ones, and I could kill the Glaive without dropping my shields and minimal damage to hull and modules. I also did my first ECM tests with it after I was told about it, and with the ECM, I should be able to high wake on a dual Glaive hyperdiction with no to minimal damage - I have not tried waking on them yet.
I then went out in my dedicated AX fighter to further test the ECM and also to see if a point defence helps. I was able to kill two Glaives, but I took around 35% percent hull damage while dispatching the first one, and another ten for the second, and by the end of the fight, my 5D MRP was toasted. While it seems shields help aginst the Glaives, they do need support by at least one, preferrably two heavy boosters, which with the utilities the ship is normally carrying is a problem. With just a shield generator (I initially tried 6A and 6C Bi Weaves, both reinforced hi-cap) the shields were gone within one lightning strike.
The ECM works very well against their missiles (not the caustic ones). The point defense tries to shoot them, but misses them either because line of sight breaks or because the missiles tumble like crazy, and although I thought the PD might have taken down one or two missiles, they might just have missed me. If the PD works or not is still unclear to me.
Summary: They are tough, and you need to be prepared, especially when they come in a pair. I think carrying an ECM will be a must for EVAC ships, as are some strongish shields and some good armor - you have to be able to tank some abuse. I still don't think they are too hard, but it is clear that the gloves are off now.
A double encounter is really tough. Unless you are in a dedicated fighter, I would run. I tried to fight two of them on my first encounter with the Python, and it ended in a rebuy. Subsequent hyperdictions in the Python were single ones, and I could kill the Glaive without dropping my shields and minimal damage to hull and modules. I also did my first ECM tests with it after I was told about it, and with the ECM, I should be able to high wake on a dual Glaive hyperdiction with no to minimal damage - I have not tried waking on them yet.
I then went out in my dedicated AX fighter to further test the ECM and also to see if a point defence helps. I was able to kill two Glaives, but I took around 35% percent hull damage while dispatching the first one, and another ten for the second, and by the end of the fight, my 5D MRP was toasted. While it seems shields help aginst the Glaives, they do need support by at least one, preferrably two heavy boosters, which with the utilities the ship is normally carrying is a problem. With just a shield generator (I initially tried 6A and 6C Bi Weaves, both reinforced hi-cap) the shields were gone within one lightning strike.
The ECM works very well against their missiles (not the caustic ones). The point defense tries to shoot them, but misses them either because line of sight breaks or because the missiles tumble like crazy, and although I thought the PD might have taken down one or two missiles, they might just have missed me. If the PD works or not is still unclear to me.
Summary: They are tough, and you need to be prepared, especially when they come in a pair. I think carrying an ECM will be a must for EVAC ships, as are some strongish shields and some good armor - you have to be able to tank some abuse. I still don't think they are too hard, but it is clear that the gloves are off now.
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Not suggesting otherwise. Everything is just "the story so far". Getting a few reports now, still quite rare and random compared to the number of times it doesn't happen. We'll keep an eye on it as we work. Non CZ stations - unattacked or damaged - seem unaffected so far, all reports are from attacked ports, still mostly ground ports but in the last 24 hrs a couple of outposts have been reported. They may appear at unattacked and damaged ports if you hang around long enough, we don't know yet, but there seems no reason why they would turn up more than any other Thargoid and rescue ships don't hang around so if there is a delay before they show it should be less of an issue there.
I make no assumptions about anybody's level of skill in my posts. You're not the only one reading the thread. If it applies, it applies, if not it might be useful to someone else.
It doesn't mean it's a certainty either, or even a regular occurrence, which is the other side of the coin. People who say you can't rule something out often forget this also means you don't automatically rule it in either. It's a two way process. What needs investigating now is the frequency. So far we have cleared 6 systems in 6 days with rescues and deliveries, with Glaives being the least of our concerns. So far they exist as a potential but rare threat, not the Sword of Damocles people have been claiming, so I think a bit more time learning how to work round them is required before deciding it's all hopeless and unfair and calling for the nerf bat.
I was commenting on people saying you need 800m/s after it has already been established that this is not true. Like people who still claim clean drives help you with fuel scooping despite it being debunked years ago, or that a cold ship is difficult to engineer. I can comment on this directly as I have tested it myself and built a AX reactivations ship for the purpose that can outrun them even if they jump you and hit you with a missile before you can move. 740 and being able to boost every 5 seconds will do it but it's marginal so 760 or more should be safe. I'm doing 787 on boost after a slight rework, dropping to 740 before boosting again, and getting away just fine. The hardest part was balancing it with enough protection to take Revenant damage while taking off and landing at the settlement.
Glaives also appear to be significantly easier to kill inside a CZ then outside them. For example, one MC will take one down in a CZ, slowly but it will do it, yet three MCs in a space encounter take the hull down far more slowly. Indicating that the threat they pose is situational and not just applied indiscriminately everywhere.
The roll part I've never done, will try that. Thanks for the tip.
Now more info has come in we're getting a better picture of exactly how big of a threat Glaives are to rescues, and it's not the major hindrance it has been blown up to be. For AX Reactivations a small fast ship can easily be built to do them that can outrun Glaives all day. For rescue ships, if you can land fast enough and jump away fast enough it's simply an extra risk to escape from, while accepting that there may be times you don't get away but that's been true since the start. They will likely be a bigger headache for AX and anyone hanging around to fight them than for rescues and deliveries. Our tests will be ongoing but despite the prophecies of doom we have had one of our most productive weeks, with the potential to clear all Invasions and Alerts around Taranis by tomorrow.
To look at that another way … you lost two weapons and half your hull to a single ”mid-range” enemy.
That doesn’t sound balanced to me!
It also means a dock/repair cycle before taking on anything else …
Prior to this, the biggest need to dock/repair for me was to reload heatsinks in order to avoid the Interceptors‘ main cannon fire and with enough heatsinks on board, I could take on two Cyclops before needing to do so.
Introducing more need to dock/repair during already long and protracted AX CZ engagements does not seem like either a fun or useful addition to the game, It sounds like a massive pain for no good reason.
(I mean, the reason is probably that FDev don’t have enough new stuff ready to go so they are simply trying to drag out the current content and engagements for as long as possible but that’s not a good reason in my book!)
It was two Glaives simultaneously, while occasionally being shot by a Cyclops, as well as the ambient scouts I was ignoring to focus the Glaives.
The AX NPCs did a decent job of distracting the Cyclops, but seemed to be unable to even hit the Glaives at all.
If I was all that bothered, I could fly my Krait MkII, or FDS, with all human ax weapons. But I'm flying a meme Mamba for fun.
Also, after my first encounter with the Glaives at a CZ earlier, I was Interdicted while fuel scooping in an Invasion system by another Glaive, and that one I was able to get down to 17% before my shards died, if I had hit a few more shots they may have survived.
If it’s designed to be an inescapable foe that you have to fight, having it interdict ships and destroy your best weapons with a passive magical ability is incredibly poor gameplay design.
Sure, if it does only operate in Controlled systems I guess that’s something but sometimes you can’t avoid those in order to get to whoever the mission / CZ is.
But, personally, I would make them slower and remove the Guardian destruction field thing.
(Or, alternatively, put them in specific “high risk” locations only)
At present, those two things just make them incompatible with the kind of ship builds used for other AX activity: if you don’t build for Glaives, you are hugely vulnerable should they show up (even if you survive you’ll have lost weapons and a massive chunk of hull) and if you do build for them then your ability to accomplish the task you were actually wanting to do for will be compromised.
In short, they’re FDev‘s “Fun Police” - intentionally designed to stop you playing the game you were trying to play.
I want my ball back.
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I find this an interesting topic: on one hand you have AX combat being seen as mowing down Thargoids using ever advanced Guardian weapons, on the other Thargoids that break this dependency and force you to be more prepared / use alternatives.
If the Glaives did not exist then would people complain Thargoid combat is little more than Space Invaders? I kind of feel for FD as it seems people want challenge but then get bent out of shape when something presents that challenge.
If the Glaives did not exist then would people complain Thargoid combat is little more than Space Invaders? I kind of feel for FD as it seems people want challenge but then get bent out of shape when something presents that challenge.
Oh, yeh, I’m aware the Mamba isn’t exactly “meta” but it’s a cool ship so kudos to you for flying one! We need some Huge AX weapon batteries …
But my point is more that if you did run your Krait - with all human AX weapons - then taking out Interceptors becomes less optimal, which makes completing CZs less optimal … which is the thing you were actually trying to do.
We all spent however many collective hundreds of hours grinding for the best weapons to take on the enemy and I think it’s a very poor decision by FDev to introduce a ship that even just a single one has the potential to negate those weapons and interrupt your enjoyment of their own game!
Levels of challenge so everyone can engage with the new content.
We had that.
They broke it.
If the Glaives are to stay with the current “powers” they have, put them only in the Maelstrom and new “Hazardous” rated CZs.
Then CMDRs can (again) choose the level of challenge they are comfortable with.
A challenge implemented by removing a player's existing capabllities is cheap and lazy. If we didn't want to fight with guardian weapons we could already do that by not putting them on our ships... now it's being passed off as "new" content.
100% agree!
after a 1 month hiatus from ax combat, last night i had my first encounter with a glaive. it was later joined by a cyclops and a few scouts. not a problem.
then, just now, i was sent to the rebuy screen twice in a space of 5 minutes. first time, i got jumped by 3 glaives while checking a capital ship distress call. second time, i got interdicted in a thargoid controlled system by 2 glaives. their attacks were unrelenting. most damaging were the lightning strikes that recharge their shields. anything more than 1 glaive is too much for me. they are unlike any opponent in the game and it's suicide to encounter packs of them solo.
by the way where are the thargoids in all the under attack stations and settlements in invasion systems? been to 3 invasion systems and all i encounter are friendly ax ships chit chatting (on horizons 4.0)
then, just now, i was sent to the rebuy screen twice in a space of 5 minutes. first time, i got jumped by 3 glaives while checking a capital ship distress call. second time, i got interdicted in a thargoid controlled system by 2 glaives. their attacks were unrelenting. most damaging were the lightning strikes that recharge their shields. anything more than 1 glaive is too much for me. they are unlike any opponent in the game and it's suicide to encounter packs of them solo.
by the way where are the thargoids in all the under attack stations and settlements in invasion systems? been to 3 invasion systems and all i encounter are friendly ax ships chit chatting (on horizons 4.0)
This.
It is an odd situation …
- Super Fast
- Guardian Weapon Destruction Magic
- Lightning Shield Recharge
- FSD reboot missiles
It’s like … all these awesome brand new abilities on one ship … why would the Thargoids field anything else?!
But from a gameplay perspective, it’s just too much on one “mid-range” ship. If they were just super fast (okay, maybe the FSD missile thing too) that might be reasonable - now there are interdictions where you can’t reasonably run - but adding the destruction of our best weapons AND rechargeable shields into the mix is just OP.
Nope
It’s making ALL Thargoid content less accessible after a sensible period of making it more so!
Given it’s the only new content - and assuming FDev want more people to play - this is the wrong direction.
I've now met them quite a few times in ships not designed for combat, in fact I've never engaged them in combat. My not very fast at all python managed to escape - eventually - from both encounters with them, my paper-thin but very fast DBS escaped a couple of times, was destroyed once (by a duo), and escaped with <10% hull the last time.
And I wasn't using ECM or as some have suggested silent running immediately when dropping in to the instance, i will try that.
But to me it just seems like it's a reasonable level of increased danger and challenge for places that should be VERY dangerous.
And I wasn't using ECM or as some have suggested silent running immediately when dropping in to the instance, i will try that.
But to me it just seems like it's a reasonable level of increased danger and challenge for places that should be VERY dangerous.
If you're going in to a maelstrom system and presumably in to the cloud itself, a new player will die after a few mins even if they reach the cloud. A new player will probably be killed by the newer interceptor interdictions and hyperdictions actually.
I think dying multiple times trying to get tissue samples from the caustic generators for example is much more egregious for new players, and many who aren't new. (edit and losing all the previous samples they might have spent ages getting)
The glaives are annoying and dangerous. I like it.
Sounds like you went to invasions that have already reached full completion for the week. This was a new change added with update 15, when the system progress bar is full all the thargoids disappear.
Yeh, but you have to choose to go into the Maelstrom and then you build for it.
With the Glaives, you might have chosen to do something else entirely that up until now you were fine with but you have no choice about whether a Glaive shows up.
It’s like adding some DLC for a new end-game boss and then also dropping them in randomly in earlier levels.
I’m not arguing whether it’s survivable just that it unfairly increases difficulty and gates access / slows down access to elements of the game that people may have already been enjoying. And that seems like a [REDACTED] move on FDevs part.