Materials in Odyssey.

I mean, you're actually given all the tools to complete any mission with G1 gear anyway. You have the energy link for quiet kills if you want to go that way and NPCs can also be picked off from afar with unsilenced weapons if you're careful too (just run for cover as soon as you've killed someone). Low CZs can be completed with G1 gear too.

I found completing my first few non-violent missions meant the upgrades were very much a want and not a need for me.

That said, I would prefer there being less 'junk' data around the place, but we are at the age of the game where there's plenty of guides now.
Exactly, my only recommendation would be to get a G3 Mav as soon as possible, off the shelf or make one, the reason for this is to enable the extra bag space upgrade which makes life soooooooooooo much easier.
Apart from that everything else is just quality of life and to be fair G5 makes stuff trivial but hey that's progress.

O7
 
Until very recently all my suits were G3. I didn't feel the need for anything more.
The tough part was unlocking the engineers though mostly that was due to trying to unlock the wrong engineer.
If one starpirt doesn't offer a mission/reward you like grab an Apex look at the next port.
I can't fathom why you'd sit around waiting for the board to partially refresh when you can get an entirely new board at the next port.
Flying on APEX essentially equates to that wait.
 
I'm reading this conversation and nothing about it screams "best in class game play", sorry ;)

Rampant RNG, to the point where our game play is directed by it, is the antithesis to engaging game play in my opinion. It can almost always be replaced with something else entirely and be more fun in almost every case, without necessarily taking less time nor being "easier" to accomplish for the player.

In a game where the most efficient route is generally exiting the game for almost everything you can do (and everyone still tells you "don't do it" anyway), until the developer fixes it by blocking the rerolling of stuff when you exit the game (yes, missions included, remember those days?) there's a clear pattern of game play vacant of engagement. Waltzing up to a random station, checking the board, seeing nothing you want and then "do this to remedy it", when you are in full knowledge that the presented options were randomly generated and you may have gotten what you wanted if you were lucky, is not "game play". Mission rewards fit this category.

Other games do it better.

In fact, Elite even does it better in the form of the shard planets, when you wish to get raw materials for ship upgrades and so on. Having a specific target, something repeatable, that'll take around an hour's game play to complete and will always have the same results is better than RNG mission rewards hunting and then trading across to the items you want because missions invariably don't give you what you want most of the time (not that you can do that in Odyssey, because you cannot trade anything from mission rewards).

I'm not saying shard blasting was the best game play (it was fun enough, just not amazing) but the concept that you can obtain specific things from doing specific things is always better than the RNG alternative.
 
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Again no, nip back to where you left it.
I understand, but I still think all these moves are from a bad mission generator.
The point of waiting, flying back and forth to APEX, if at the end of the day I will choose exactly the same mission but with the reward I want.
 
RNG or fixed placement. That is the question. Some fixed placement of some data could be for the better (SDPs in CMD, MIs in production type buildings for example), but I do not know. And FDev would have to make the change.

Steve

The danger of course is that we would end up with more Dav's Hope type scenario's, where something becomes the "go to" location for X material. Is that bad or good? Depends on your outlook, grinders will love it and hate it at the same time, it's a pain to keep grinding the same location over and over again to get X, while at the same time grinding the same location over and over again to get X.
 
The danger of course is that we would end up with more Dav's Hope type scenario's, where something becomes the "go to" location for X material. Is that bad or good? Depends on your outlook, grinders will love it and hate it at the same time, it's a pain to keep grinding the same location over and over again to get X, while at the same time grinding the same location over and over again to get X.
You don't need to.
Just untie the hands of the bartender, give him a warehouse for the exchange of goods and teach him to work on a computer so he can copy data from a flash drive and that's all.

In the end you can make different bartenders as changelings in space.
 
The danger of course is that we would end up with more Dav's Hope type scenario's, where something becomes the "go to" location for X material. Is that bad or good? Depends on your outlook, grinders will love it and hate it at the same time, it's a pain to keep grinding the same location over and over again to get X, while at the same time grinding the same location over and over again to get X.
Dav's Hope is just an example of this being accidentally created and so... not very fun. It's not the only place of its kind but it's famous and so players go there.

Is it fun? Not at all, at least not after the first 25 circuits. It's the same with the shard forests. They're a lot better than RNG and they are actually fun for the first time you do them. They also give you enough mats to last you for absolutely ages so are, in my opinion, the best source for materials and it's a shame they're limited to raw only. But are they good game play? Not particularly, but it's still a good addition to the game as an option and the game could do with more of the same.

The problem isn't here though, it's the core design of enginerring as a whole and this is because of the way they implemented them as alternative currency systems (because that's what they are), of how they're used and in the quantities they're required. I mean, FD gave in to the complaints for EDH materials by simply making us get x3 every time :D That tells a very clear story about design decisions.

They could have gone with a list of materials that's about 10 times shorter, given us fun and compelling ways to get them all throughout the whole game (not just HGEs for one example) and then made it so we do not need them repeatedly, over and over again, every time we wish to build another module of the same type. For the engineer unlocking process, they could have given us a mission that's unique to each (there aren't that many) and so made each tell its own story. If it is essential to lock off credits as a currency entirely then fine, make it so the engineers require a new currency so you can make new modules of the types you've unlocked but make that currency fun to get.

I'm about to embark on yet another (my fourth) engineering unlock process as my girlfriend has just started playing and I am joining her in the pain of it all. I know exactly what I'm going to do for every section of this process because I know exactly what the fastest method is for every single item I'll need. I know a whole bunch of it will be dull, repetetive and exhausting. But if I don't do it, I'll be in a rubbish ship that can't do much of what the game offers and if I don't do it efficiently, I know I'll be forever sat on random stuff that won't be useful at all (you can't just randomly play the game and accidentally realise you can upgrade an item, you need to really, really focus on it because nothing in the game tells you anything about it until you visit the engineer). I already know what she'll say to me... "Why do this? Can't we just get stuff naturally?" because that's how it works in several other games we play and a part of me wants to just let her go ahead and try so she can find out for herself. Even explaining it to her makes me think I sound like a nutcase. Why would I wilingly do this?

Yup, Dav's Hope will be in there, no doubt... it's the fastest way to get G1-4 stuff in general when you are starting out with zero stock. A little bit of nostalgia that'll wear off after I've done the circuit 50 times again. It just didn't have to be this way. It was bad enough that they tried to add MMORPG crafting into a space simulator by blugeoning us with it this way and leaving us with more module/power bloat than you can shake a stick at but the fact they decided to make it so convoluted (try doing the whole thing without once using a third party tool, as a brand new player) just made it way worse.

The convoluted nature of it is where they went wrong initially. Dav's Hope is just the outcome of that and isn't the solution. The game's initial A-E ship building system was so simple and well designed, it was complicated enough to take time to fully understand and has lots of nuance but it is so simple in design that it works so well. Compare that to engineering...
 
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I get the impression that the Odyssey stuff is trying to get us to move around rather than gather at the same spot. Though players dependency on YouTube (with apologies to Stealthboy) works against that, Thus Arai's Mine...
 
The danger of course is that we would end up with more Dav's Hope type scenario's, where something becomes the "go to" location for X material. Is that bad or good? Depends on your outlook, grinders will love it and hate it at the same time, it's a pain to keep grinding the same location over and over again to get X, while at the same time grinding the same location over and over again to get X.
Grinding the same game loops over and over again to maybe get X isn't any better though.

If you have a goal and you do absolutely everything right, but you don't get the reward because you were unlucky/RNG-ed, you won't be too happy about it. It's an easy way to frustrate players and make them feel they wasted their time.

Surely this could be improved upon.
 
It's an easy way to frustrate players and make them feel they wasted their time.

Or to get them to do various activities in the game.

Now look I am not a spoilsport, it's always been my opinion that all mats of all types should be available as mission rewards. You do the mission, you get the mats, and that way you get to take part in various activities, although some mats should be specific to mission types. For instance mats specific to weapons upgrades and etc would come from combat missions, that way all players would have a guaranteed way to get that 1 or 2 mats they need to finish X, and the RNG mats would be extras you could just pick up while doing the missions and it wouldn't really matter what they were.

I am not a big fan or RNG, having been at the lower end of the bell curve in some other games where others get the good stuff and I never get that one last mat I need, but RNG combined with non-RNG would work if done right.
 
Exactly, it's about RNG. Dav's Hope was never great for materials, but it gave a predictable outcome. That's imho why players went there - to circumvent the RNG.

I would love the game to send me to all kinds of different locations if I get what I'm looking for.

The game doesn't really steer the player in the direction of wandering around, that's a decision a player has to make for themselves. Having to return the starting station to hand in a mission is another big "offender" in that regard.
 
Frontier are definitely missing an opportunity for players to develop relationships with NPCs that might give us a chance to ask them to "Keep an eye on for a thingy for me". 🤷‍♂️
 
I believe that some ship smuggling missions now offer a limited variety of Odyssey materials.
Not just smuggling; a fair few others too.

Has anyone done a balance of missions? Where for a kill that you do 10 minutes, get the same materials that you get for a secret hack, which you will do one hour.
You don't need to do missions; there are massive amounts of abandoned bases in and out of thargoid occupied/restore territory.
 
You don't need to do missions; there are massive amounts of abandoned bases in and out of thargoid occupied/restore territory.
Missions are the fastest way to get data and in most cases goods for upgrades (definitely better for power regulators, gas and a couple others if you can get 3+). You need to do missions if you want to engineer in EDO and it's recommended for normal upgrades (and of course they send you to the places you can loot stuff for assets and goods and some data as well). The alternative is mind-numbingly dull and slow (never doing missions).

In general, EDO does an OK job with engineers but it fails on the basics when compared to EDH's max cap per material system (which is objectively better than EDO's 1k per thing), its worse/restrictive trading system and the unlocking process can be really dull in places (settlement defence plans for example). It also bottlenecks too many materials like power regulators and manufacturing instructions. But it is a ton simpler than EDH engineering. It actually doesn't need much to make it a lot better.
 
[...] But it is a ton simpler than EDH engineering. It actually doesn't need much to make it a lot better.
Might as well be light years away though. The fact that Frontier didn't manage to adjust simple stuff like SDPs in two years says a lot really. ☹️
 
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