Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
You're gonna like this V

CIG's legal dept insists that the game is both released, and a buggy alpha ;)

Yeah, there are other similar older ones too. So, just in summary that statement is the same as saying: “Yes, SC is already officially released. Yes, it also sucks big time.”

It checks out 🤷‍♂️ all is left is the usual game press reviews and scores that many other early access releases get.
 
Last edited:
You're gonna like this V

CIG's legal dept insists that the game is both released, and a buggy alpha ;)

h1tT1YO.png

8iMfNwL.png


And then coughs up the refund anyway to this UK citizen. (Via 'Shell Company 2', because reasonsreasonsreasons...)

To be fair he wanted his money back after near 300 hours of play time.
 
You're gonna like this V

CIG's legal dept insists that the game is both released, and a buggy alpha ;)




And then coughs up the refund anyway to this UK citizen. (Via 'Shell Company 2', because reasonsreasonsreasons...)

That whole thing reminds me of some scam company obviously scamming consumers making an official response to "Watchdog".

We made it perfectly clear that the game was crappy at the point of sale and all over our website and you should have KNOWN because of all the play now, pledge now, in stock, in stock IN STOCK! Stuff that made this perfectly clear so pledge now because it's STILL in stock.

Is there really a "call out" that describes the game's state? Last time I checked "alpha" was a software testing phase and it tell's consumers sod all about the state of software - the website is completely non descriptive regarding the state, there certainly isn't anything about the number of bugs or the amount of working content you actually get. They are on some very dodgy ground.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, there are other similar older ones too. So, just in summary that statement is the same as saying: “Yes, SC is already officially released. Yes, it also sucks big time.”

It checks out 🤷‍♂️ all is left is the usual game press reviews and scores that many other early access releases get.

Yeah I remember similar. I'm pretty sure the passive aggressive "rebuts the false allegation that the game has not been released" stuff is new though ;)
 
Yeah but to be equally fair, the game still isn't what it said it would be. By a long long chalk.

(Are you not slightly intrigued to hear them state so strongly that the game is 'released'? ;))

It really sucks for a "released" game to get almost regular wipes every 3-4 months...
I will admit that I do enjoy my daily flying around the ver... Stanton system mostly due to graphics and yes, ship interiors, imo massive and only win for SC currently over the competition. But with no end in sight or even estimate, constant wipes that eliminates any sense of progression its like... messing around in Gmod with pretty assets.

I also find the in game community being... hmm... overly emotionally invested in.. everything in-the-verse.
 
You're gonna like this V

CIG's legal dept insists that the game is both released, and a buggy alpha ;)

h1tT1YO.png

8iMfNwL.png


And then coughs up the refund anyway to this UK citizen. (Via 'Shell Company 2', because reasonsreasonsreasons...)
""Star Citizen! is a community-funded video game project..."
Knowing a layer read through that calling it a vedeo game project worries me. There's a lot of wiggle room to say the development is what was funded not the product.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
That whole thing reminds me of some scam company obviously scamming consumers making an official response to "Watchdog".

We made it perfectly clear that the game was crappy at the point of sale and all over our website and you should have KNOWN because of all the play now, pledge now, in stock, in stock IN STOCK! Stuff that made this perfectly clear so pledge now because it's STILL in stock.

Is there really a "call out" that describes the game's state? Last time I checked "alpha" was a software testing phase and it tell's consumers sod all about the state of software - the website is completely non descriptive regarding the state, there certainly isn't anything about the number of bugs or the amount of working content you actually get. They are on some very dodgy ground.
And that is precisely why released games including many early access released games need their usual share of game press reviews and scores etc. As imperfect as those may be, in aggregate they constitute a fundamental pillar of a bit less biased information than the developer’s, for the market to form their own opinions.
 
You're gonna like this V

CIG's legal dept insists that the game is both released, and a buggy alpha ;)

h1tT1YO.png

8iMfNwL.png


And then coughs up the refund anyway to this UK citizen. (Via 'Shell Company 2', because reasonsreasonsreasons...)

This just screams shady as hell.

You don't have any contractual agreement with us "Cloud Imperium Games" (owned by Chris Roberts, and just happens to have their logo splashed all over the product), your contract with Roberts Space Industries (also owned by Chris Roberts), but somehow, even though its that other company that you have an agreement with (owned by Chris Roberts), we will give you some money to make you go away, even though we have no reason to because of all these reasons we stated and remind you we have no obligation to give you money.

Now, i aint some big city lawyer, but something here smells as fishy as a six week dead fish.

If I got this, in the UK, the EU, or Oz, i'd show it to a lawyer and i suspect they would smell blood in the water.
 
To be fair he wanted his money back after near 300 hours of play time.

To be fair, he probably backed based on marketing and other information released by CIG, promoting the game as some sort of wonderful playable thing, with disclaimer in small print, yadda yadda, nobody ever reads, which is why some countries have ruled ToS to be unenforceable. Maybe he backed when Chris was stating the game would require a bit more polish and be released in a couple of years or whatever.

So he played, thinking that (based on CIG's own statements) that the game would get better, that it would be really playable and in a releasable state.

And after some time, he came to understand, it was all a load of horse manure, that they had been misled, lied to.

I think that's fair enough grounds to seek a refund.

What matters is whether the law of the specific country agrees in such situations.

Its been suggested before that sooner or later, someone or a group are going to successfully challenge CIG in court for non-delivery based on their marketing, Chris' statements, and other promotional materials, and the court will throw out CIG's disclaimers based on the marketing and promises, and it will set case law, opening the floodgates for refunds.

Whether this will happen remains to be seen, but we've already seen kickstarters cause a number of legal cases and in some countries the lawmakers are starting to take notice.

Look at what happened to Shroud of the Avatar and Chronicles of Elyria. Both only managed to stave off lawsuits by keeping the games under development by a single developer. Gariott got lucky and found someone to take over while he disassociated himself from the project. Christian (CoE) as i understand it, is basically now sole developer. Both games promised the ultimate games of their genre, both failed badly. Time will tell with SC, but for the moment, its only the funding that is keeping it alive.

What happens if those funding the game start to realize that the emperor has no clothes? Funding drys up and CIG downscale. Considering they are adding new stuff at a snail's pace with over 1000 employees, how will development look when they have to downscale to 500, or 100, or 10, or... 1?

I've asked faithful before, who claim SC is already the best space game ever, how many people they thought would continue to play SC if development stopped today? No new content ever. Would it still be considered the best space game ever? Or is it all fuelled by dreams of the game it one day could be, if CIG ever get their shtick together?

And if funding did stop and development eventually did, we can look right now and clearly understand there is no way CIG are releasing anything approximate to what CIG sold to backers before the money runs out. They probably couldn't even squeeze out a half-baked SQ42.

That would open the floodgates to refund demands... but there would be no money left in the bank to pay those refunds, even if the courts decided in favour of the refundians. Well, except for the IP to Star Citizen, that Chris sold to CIG for a few million... maybe the refundians could take joint ownership for that and sell it to the remaining faithful backers for a few million :p The only money that wouldn't have been spent would be nicely tied up in the bank accounts and trusts of Chris, Erin, Sandi, and Ortwin.... not much, just a few tens of millions perhaps.
 

To be fair he wanted his money back after near 300 hours of play voluntary alpha-testing time.

That's a damn good point. CIG and faithful backers make a lot of statements about how you're not meant to be playing to have fun, you're meant to be testing it.

I wonder if taking that line in court would work? "Your honour, how could anyone realistically enjoy the game consider its current state? I was an unpaid, volunteer tester for the product. I actually had to pay to get access to test the game for CIG for free, based on the understanding that when the game was released, I would get to play it for fun."
 
Refund guy says he first pledged when he was 12/13.

I wonder what the law says on the applicability of ToS and disclaimers in relation to contractual relationships with minors.
 
Back
Top Bottom