Exactly as I thought, so the management will ride it all the way down to ground zero like in Dr Strangelove
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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World's filling up with damned beancounters
There's a saying I've stuck to practically all my life, it's served me fairly well over the years...'Never trust a man who doesn't have to wipe oil or dirt from his hands to shake yours.'
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Now I feel old
The thing is... Chris & Family have been running off with a portion of the money since this project began, though we'll never know how big that portion is. If the UK shell company is any indication, it's at least 10% of total income since 2012... and it's been growing both in size and boldness. CIG-UK issued about $2 million USD in dividends last year IIRC, and the Roberts Clan owns 95% of the company's shares. And that's just one of about two dozen shell companies created to obfuscate finances in relation to this project.
They seem to have slowed down a little bit, in the sense that they didn't repeat the dividend in the last reported financial year. Or the 'minority investment' payout to the Calders:
But prior to that, yeah, from the internal IP sale, the share sell-offs, to top dollar living (firewalled safely behind a family trust), up to the more recent dividend, they've been feathering their nest quite nicely.
Not sure if that adds up to 10% of total income etc, but it's certainly extreme payola for a board that hasn't officially launched a product yet.
(Speaking of which, I'd imagine the Turbulent crew have lowered the Roberts hold over the board a touch by now. Last time shareholder percentages were declared was when Chris dipped below 75% holding with their initial share swap [see 19 Oct 2020]. Wouldn't be surprised if shares got shifted around with the latest amalgamation though, to go with Turb's fancy new titles. Just not enough to take Chris below 50% or anything, as that would have been declared.)
But prior to that, yeah, from the internal IP sale, the share sell-offs, to top dollar living (firewalled safely behind a family trust), up to the more recent dividend, they've been feathering their nest quite nicely.
Not sure if that adds up to 10% of total income etc, but it's certainly extreme payola for a board that hasn't officially launched a product yet.
(Speaking of which, I'd imagine the Turbulent crew have lowered the Roberts hold over the board a touch by now. Last time shareholder percentages were declared was when Chris dipped below 75% holding with their initial share swap [see 19 Oct 2020]. Wouldn't be surprised if shares got shifted around with the latest amalgamation though, to go with Turb's fancy new titles
. Just not enough to take Chris below 50% or anything, as that would have been declared.)
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World's filling up with damned beancounters
There's a saying I've stuck to practically all my life, it's served me fairly well over the years...'Never trust a man who doesn't have to wipe oil or dirt from his hands to shake yours.'
* Dusts the corn puffs from his hands *
Monthly report is out...
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EDIT:
Some minor points of note:
Star Citizen Monthly Report: July 2023
Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
EDIT:
Some minor points of note:
- The Core Engine team progressed with the development of StarBuild, the new in-house code-build system that will replace WAF [?]
- The Core Technology team improved Building Blocks’ runtime performance, as the recent addition of new UI assets led to an increase in size and complexity.
- The Entity System team primarily supported various technical initiatives, including RaStar and the Resource Network. This involved exploring ways to create and limit generated locations to provide a rich experience without negatively impacting performance.
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There's a saying I've stuck to practically all my life, it's served me fairly well over the years...'Never trust a man who doesn't have to wipe oil or dirt from his hands to shake yours.'
Please excuse me whilst I disconnect my ESD loop before going to the sink
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I think in this matter language is important as otherwise the lie will continue to prevail: CIG has very much indeed officially launched a product. It did so in 2016 when SC was released in early access as per CIG statements. There is no difference between early access launches and regular ones except in expected quality.
There are many games that launch that do so incomplete, no Man´s Sky, Elite etc. I suspect what you really mean is that CIG has not completed SC as per the continued representations/promises/intentions used to sell it. The thing with official launches (including early access ones) is that the developer suddenly has zero obligations to improve or deliver anything else related to the product, unlike pre orders or crowdfund.
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That's up to interpretation. The term 'Early Access' itself hint at getting early access to a game before its released/finished, CIG even said it on their website, its a special privilage to play their ALPHA. CIG is doing their best to not mention 'release' on their website so the definition and what it implies has be argued out in court, and most people don't want to burn their money doing that.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
There is very little to interpretation of what is a release/launch. Early access is simply tagging a release/launch with a warning that the product may have more defects or more missing items than expected and that the developer has an intent to improve it with no guarantees, that is all. But otherwise there is no difference. CIG has mentioned SC is released already many times. They are just trying to obfuscate that to the market by using vague terms such as "alpha" on top.
It´s quite simple actually. What is a game or product that is being sold if it is not released? There is essentially only 2 options: It is either in a crowdfund or pre order state. Those 2 states are very easily recognized because of their accounting and financial implications and certain obligations. Deferred revenue and refunds no questions asked, among other differences. In the case of crowdfunding the developer usually has the obligation to use all funds for the development of the crowdfunded product aswell. The fact CIG is for exemple issuing dividends and disputing refunds, or likely using funds to acquire Turbulent, plus their own explicit statements that the game is released, indicate SC is officially launched already.
Let´s not confuse launched/released with completed.
Now, is the released product conforming to all representation made of the product at point of sale throughout the years? Probably not. And that, my friend, is a different story. One for which many sellers have been indicted.
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The fact we're arguing if its released or not is the thing. If it was clear cut released we'd all agree on that point.
And more importantly most of the people who actually paid for it maintain it's not yet released, that's going to sway heavily in CIG's way if it ever has to go to court to prove the game isn't released.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
The fact we are arguing is because CIG has tried to obfuscate the fact SC is released already with vague terms like "alpha" and "pledge" etc. Quite understandably as they are probably worried of the repercussions of being more explicit, as you rightly point out, given all the undelivered promises after 11+ years. But I assure you that the tax man looking for profits to tax or any auditors looking into it will easily recognize SC as a released product.
Again, let´s not confuse released with completed or with released as described. What we have is simply a released product that has fallen way, way short of the sale descriptions of what the product would be when released, and with no guarantees that it will improve or expand. Tons of those out there, some even leading to litigation or fraud, SC is just one more.
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This started from comparing CIG to Theranos as fraud right? My point is as long as CIG can make the state of the game vague it'll have to be tested in court. I mentioned the poeple who plays it consistently say it's not released yet, and that's going to weigh heavily in CIG's favor.
There was also that thing about the company that got the money/handle refinds is separate form the company that's developing the game?
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Perhaps, but I do not think the weight of the consumer opinion will have much say if the thing is tested at court to be honest. Especially if they ask me
Checking if a product is released or not is a trivial exercise for any half decent accountant. There are more chances an eventual judge/jury sees CIG just as trying to bamboozle consumers with marketing vague terms in the first place, I reckon.
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Citizen Con marketing announcement leaked!
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/y1zt6n/heres_to_2_more_years/
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/y1zt6n/heres_to_2_more_years/
It's the perception of what you get for the money if its a fraud or not. If CIG can bring in a handful of citizens to testify they knew all along the product isn't released then there's a chance the court will believe that's the common take. The fact CIG gives out refund could also support this because if the product isn't released yet we're always entitled to a refund regardless of how many thound of hours we've played of the ALPHA.Perhaps, but I do not think the weight of the consumer opinion will have much say if the thing is tested at court to be honest. Especially if they ask me
Seeing as Johnny Depp is legally a wifebeater and Elon Musk can call a guy "Pedoman" doesn't give me much confidence in the legal system.
No V, I mean what I say.
CIG hasn't officially declared itself to be a launched title. Internally it absolutely does treat itself as a live product, and publicly it has slid, snake-like, into framing itself as 'Early Access'. But only when put in a legal headlock will it privately define itself as 'released'.
The people who play don't have much authority in that matter