Looks can be deceiving. How large is their tank? How many are in there? What enrichment are they provided with? Are they forced to perform in shows?
How does their captive behaviour compare to the behaviour of wild belugas?
Cetaceans in Planet Zoo (Ideas and Thoughts)
- Thread starter Marvinb
- Start date
How does their captive behaviour compare to the behaviour of wild belugas?
You do bring up a point.
I’m not an expert, from having worked at an AZA place before and from my visits Il answer as best I can.
I’ve only been to Mystic. Both places are AZA accredited. Tanks are very large with 5-10 belugas.
No shows. I did an enrichment encounter with one on my 18th birthday and is a learning encounter that is voluntary.
Enrichment items are rotated similar to our habitat animals.
I'm not saying you're wrong, of course, just that from an outside perspective things can seem hunky-dory when they aren't. As an example, my local zoo had three male gorillas from Taronga Zoo in Sydney. Everything seemed great at first but now they seem to be down to one. The first died from a respiratory illness. I don't know about the second but he wasn't on display last time I visited.
I don't it's necessary to put a taboo on cetaceans in Planet Zoo, it is literally just a videogame that will have no effect on the captivity of orcas in the real world. If anything, it would put these animals in a spotlight for many people now, who would research it more thanks to the sparked interest.
Cetaceans were the main selling point of Marine Mania (you may disagree personally, but at the time that was the case for the consumerbase), it would give Planet Zoo a new revival like no other new added animal could. I would assume, that not even an aviary bird pack, would be as popular with the average player, as a Marine Mania dlc would be.
Cetaceans were the main selling point of Marine Mania (you may disagree personally, but at the time that was the case for the consumerbase), it would give Planet Zoo a new revival like no other new added animal could. I would assume, that not even an aviary bird pack, would be as popular with the average player, as a Marine Mania dlc would be.
This has never been a valid argument. It's Frontier's game, and they have a purpose behind it. I mean, all you have to do to know that cetaceans are never coming to this game is to look at the polar bear and what an utter debacle that was when it first released.
Tbh, I'm not sure if there is any demonstrable difference in welfare between elephants and dolphins in captivity according to the science. Both show reduced lifespans, increased susceptibility to disease, increased aggression and boredom, so if you're going to have elephants in the game technically you could have dolphins.At least from what I've heard from members of our community that are from South America, the sloth is pretty much a similar case to the Proboscis Monkey. They're successfully kept in South America, just not successfully kept outside of it. There's at least 3 South American zoos that keep them, but according to Callado and Carlos there are probably more.
I'd say Platypus, Proboscis and the sloth are three prime examples of niche animals that can be used to make very specific zoos from very specific parts in the world. Given that those animals aren't the majority of our roster, I think it's perfectly fine for them to be in the game.
Now, for the on topic part of this, my simple answer to this is: there's no way Frontier is going to risk it. Frontier is a public facing company that does live-streams, events and is active on several social media platforms. No matter how you twist and turn it, no matter how much you put the emphasis on the fact that this is a game, no matter how much ingame mechanics you introduce to make it feel ethical; people who are vehemently against cetaceans in captivity will be extremely vocal about it and will do that in spaces where the game/DLC is being promoted.
I can't see Frontier risking the PR and social media hassle their teams would have to deal with. There's simply no "solution" to this, other than to simply avoid it at all costs
Of course perception is everything but if Frontier required something like 5 million litre tank to house a dolphin without protestors, I think this might be acceptable.
When it comes to cetaceans in Planet Zoo, I would accept the Beluga Whale and Common Bottlenose Dolphin given their successes in captivity. Orcas is a definitive no, but what could bring Orcas and other cetaceans like Humpback Whales could be a whale watching system for coastal maps, being able to send out whale watching tours from a port on the edge of the ocean.
Yeah, that's completely beside the point that I'm trying to make here lol. What our opinions on the matter are, no matter now nuanced they are, in the end they don't really matter.
Whatever Frontier would do, people who are vehemently against cetaceans in captivity will still see it as a way to promote keeping these animals in captivity, and will be very vocal about it on various social media. I've seen it happen in the past, it isn't pretty.
It's just a PR and CM nightmare, especially given the social media presence Frontier has, one that is completely understandable to want to avoid.
Yeah, I did a bit of research and it seems there's even less potential problem keeping dolphins in captivity than elephants.
It all stems from a few very common problems:
-training dolphins to do tricks by method of starvation/positive reinforcement
-having very shallow pools which causes them to be sunburnt, also not enough space to deep dive
-separating captive born dolphins from their mothers at a young age and denying them social family groups
-taking dolphins from the wild
-little attempt to provide sea environment enrichment with sterile tanks
We all know the causes of bad dolphin welfare but there just seems to be little impetus for improvement. Respectable zoos are keeping arms length from keeping dolphins due to public backlash while the sea "circuses" keep on rolling and making money. This is not a positive state of affairs.
By contrast, there are far more mysterious reasons that zoos don't even know as to what causes elephants to do poorly in captivity. Yet, they have at least attempted and made serious improvements. The elephant circuses have been shut down and are no longer competing with zoo elephants and thus zoos are incentivised to improve elephant welfare to continue to attract visitors. This is a virtuous cycle.
On the contrary, zoos just near universally stopped keeping dolphins yet they are still languishing in very bad circuses with no prospect of improvement for their welfare due to the stream of human visitors who have few other options to see a dolphin with their own eyes. This is a vicious cycle.
I just think cetaceans are cool so yea I want them in my animal video game. The rehab idea is a cool one just allow it so in sandbox you can do whatever you want. Boom win win