No Single Player offline Mode then?

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Jorlin

Jorlin
Spectre Alpha said:
LOL so in 10 years from now you would still be able to play a 10 yo game that by comparison will be total rubbish to what can be done then. Sounds great, games have a useful life of about 2 years max. Then they are outdated although some still choose to play them instead of staying current.
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i often play "old" games again.... why not?
MOO
Jagged Alliance
Battle Isle
DSA
...

Some things just don't get old (and haven't been done better until today).
I for my part can't understand the FIFA crowd that need a new version of the same game every year... but if they want to, why not?
 

deusx_ophc

deusx_ophc
ThatFuzzyTiger said:
I would say there's a good analogy to be drawn to it. They've made a clear obligation and made a sales pitch to a lot of interested parties based on claims A, B, C and D (game modes). One month before the game goes live, claim A goes out of the window, leaving Claim B C and D fully intact, so whilst the majority of the game is there, a significant mode -has- been stripped, which causes a lot of people to get annoyed. When people who were invested on the basis of claim A want their money back, they're told they can't get it. That's at the least a massive failure of communication and incompetence of the highest order, and at worst highly shady.
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db said that with hindsight they could have shared their issues on the offline mode with the community earlier and at the same time gave good reasons as to why they did not do that. that is all there is to it.

calling FDEVs coms "massive failure" and "incompetence of the highest order" or even "highly shady" is nothing but exaggerated name calling.
 

JughedJones

JughedJones
Memnoch said:
Regardless of the legal implications of what they as a company, and one side of a business transaction, have to do under UK law I feel some small amount of leeway would have been a good idea at this point from a PR point of view. It's probably a small number of people that actually wanted a refund so I'm sure that wouldn't have dented the coffers much.

I have seen this story now on the BBC News app, on Slashdot and The Register too. None of these stories paint a rosy picture of what has happened.
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Headline: Nerds Angry on the Internet!
 

Demosthien

D
Joe Spivey said:
Sooooo you're basing your evidence on events that haven't happened yet. Hmmmm. That said though, I actually agree with you. Yes, everyone who asks for a refund is going to get the same reply. And looking at that reply it makes all those seeking a refund look rather silly... because they never read the T&Cs, because no-one EVER reads the T&Cs but that is not FD's fault.... now is it?
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For those in the UK (probably the whole EU) the sellers T&Cs mean very little unless they're giving the consumer more rights... T&Cs can't restrict rights granted by law.

If the digital download, "...isn't as the seller described it..." then there is an avenue for a refund. I think that the offline function not being present counts as not being as described by the seller.

See the 2nd paragraph of the section on "faulty downloads";

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download

Happily, Which also provide this nice letter drafted by one of their lawyers for consumers to use;

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-to-claim-a-refund-for-a-faulty-digital-download
 

Perramas

Perramas
Spectre Alpha said:
LOL so in 10 years from now you would still be able to play a 10 yo game that by comparison will be total rubbish to what can be done then. Sounds great, games have a useful life of about 2 years max. Then they are outdated although some still choose to play them instead of staying current.
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Yes if it is a good game. I still play on occasion Ultima VII, Daggerfall, Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri, Everquest, and a few others.
 

Nyken

N
Add me to the list of people who were denied a refund. It was said it would be on a case by case basis. Even explaining the single player aspect being gone, and being directly refered by the excutive producer himself did nothing. I really feel cheated by this. All because I did simply download and play, help them testing out the online component of something that I believe was also going to have a completely offline component.

Hi, (Name)

The cancellations and returns policy on our site states that digital products are non-refundable once they are downloaded and played by the customer. As such, we are unable to offer you a refund on this purchase.

I’m sorry that we cannot assist you further in this instance.

Sincerely,
Support
 

Vandaahl

Vandaahl
littleminxundr said:
The full game is a reward for buying into the Beta... It's not a pre-order. Betabackers bought the Beta, which they downloaded and played. Therefore, they don't qualify for a refund. That was already the case when I bought in, and I understood it as a reason to not qualify for a refund at that time.

You can verify that in the storepage for the Beta: The full game (mercenary edition) is a goodie entitling one to all the goodies of the Mercenary edition too, and it has the Federation Rep as a bonus over the pre-order.

The small print says in so many words that at the moment the product is made available, the window to cancel the order is closed. In this case, people bought and were presented with the Beta.
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One buys the Beta edition. You get the released game for free, or at least, thats what the shop says.
 

littleminxundr

littleminxundr
Demosthien said:
For those in the UK (probably the whole EU) the sellers T&Cs mean very little unless they're giving the consumer more rights... T&Cs can't restrict rights granted by law.

If the digital download, "...isn't as the seller described it..." then there is an avenue for a refund. I think that the offline function not being present counts as not being as described by the seller.

See the 2nd paragraph of the section on "faulty downloads";

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download

Happily, Which also provide this nice letter drafted by one of their lawyers for consumers to use;

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-to-claim-a-refund-for-a-faulty-digital-download
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In what way is Elite faulty?
 

RobinsonUK

R
Jorlin said:
i often play "old" games again.... why not?
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I did that a few times with the original Half Life, Ground Control and Homeworld. Half Life was just a barren, desolate wasteland. It really shocked me to see how much "busier" environments have become compared to what they used to be. Ground Control was funny - the lack of lip syncing voice made the characters look kind-of nuts. Homeworld was the only game that stood the test of time as still being fun to play.

Oh and I've played Elite inside my browser a few times too. That's still fun to play too believe it or not.
 

Demosthien

D
1500 said:
lol no, that has been the policy from the start. The return policy has not changed. It has always been that if you downloaded the game you could not get a refund. Just do a forum search this is not a new thing.
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Saying something that is wrong many times on a forum does not make it correct.

If the digital download is not as described then it is a faulty download and therefore a refund is appropriate. Downloading it does not negate this right.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download
 

Memnoch

M
Nyken said:
The cancellations and returns policy on our site states that digital products are non-refundable once they are downloaded and played by the customer. As such, we are unable to offer you a refund on this purchase.
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So that would include if the devs. went nuts and turned ED into a new version of Scrabble you still wouldn't be eligible for a refund? So there you were, hoping to have Alpha and Beta tested the greatest space sim ever made and on December 16th what you actually get is a mildly entertaining computerised word game. ;)
 

Mengy

Mengy
Dr. Funkenstein said:
If this is a cast iron guarantee from Frontier that I can still play Elite Dangerous if they take the servers down then I would be satisfied with it.
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It's as much of a guarantee as offline mode for release is.

Take of that what you will, but I would not expect it down the road in the unfortunate event that the servers go offline.
 

deusx_ophc

deusx_ophc
Vlodec said:
An awful lot of people are arguing legalities here, and yet, as any lawyer knows, the law is a lottery. Everyone thinks he has justice on his side, until the judge enlightens him.

Has anything like this actually been tested in court?
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of course not because essentially law is money. these tos, eula etc are set up by commercial lawyers of multinationals. they will not make it easy for you to get any money, unless there is a gross misconduct/neglect (or you live in america). the cost vs reward in any case like this is prohibitive. just so you get an official EU lawyers take on it, i shall ask mine tomorrow (yes he will probably scold me but nvm) and report back to you.

how about that?
 

Kicks

Kicks
If Bruce Springsteen ever recorded the album "Born to Armchair-Legal-Rage", this thread would surely be on the album-cover.
 

littleminxundr

littleminxundr
Leo_Bartlet said:
I suspect many people that consider themselves nerds would scoff at the idea of a offline game. We life in a increasingly interconnected world where the internet is in almost any device you can think off.

Who are these luddites crying because due to the fact that Frontier can't and wont spend resources on a offline game that will by Frontiers own admission be very limited in scope. Also I imagine that if they were to be given a offline game the would then and moan because it was lacking content.
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Not really. Before the offline was canned, both Micheal and David have both assured everybody that the offline would be rather weaksauce. We knew full well that we wouldn't have gotten a game where you can't get minerals because botters mine 24/7. ^^
 
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