how to bring players back

Jack Winter

Jack Winter
I think it's also an effect of people's shorter attention span, and nowadays it seems like people have migrated to short posts on some mobile app.

Also the mobile isn't very conducive to thoughtful discourse of any length..

Maybe another factor is that this forum appeared (IMO) quite toxic. In fact I considered leaving for a long time due to the toxicity and off topic bickering. I was going to write a farewell post, not to the game but to the forum.. :)

I decided against, as I do like the sometimes interesting on topic discussions.
 

amigacooke {macOS}

amigacooke {macOS}
Jack Winter said:
Maybe another factor is that this forum appeared (IMO) quite toxic.
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You didn't hang around in the Amiga forums in the 90s then. That tended to be open warefare.

I think there were a lot of 'unhappy' customers due to areas of the game that were depreciated and areas that were trailed and to date have not arrived. Oh, and those who didn't like changes to existing features and those who though existing features could be better.
 

Jack Winter

Jack Winter
Having been a forum moderator in the past, I'd suggest that the amount of toxicity depends on the level of acceptance by the moderation team.. It's similar to being a boss, unfortunately sometimes you have to correct some people's behavior otherwise things get out of hand.

Sadly if you let people post what they want, things will quickly deteriorate.. :D

Edit: And seen from that point of view, maybe we haven't done too bad here, it could be a lot worse.. :D
 
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aclout

A
varonica said:
Interesting that you class flyable gas giants as low hanging fruit.

Most of the rest has been discussed endlessly, the reason why 99.999999% of the galaxy is perfectly safe, despite being anarchy systems, is because that's the way players want them.



You've not landed on many atmospheric worlds then? There's just about every color and type of atmosphere out there.







A lot of what you are suggesting would drive a lot of the current players away, and there's no guarantee they would bring new players. Yes we all want more planets, and landable ELW and flyable Gas Giants, and no don't play with the gravity, I doubt if they even could because the game doesn't work that way in simulating gravity, but lets not make every excursion into the unknown a battle against a multitude of pirates just to stay alive. Many of these things are not low hanging fruit, they are not trivial undertakings or they would already be in game.
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Re gas giants: How hard are basic fog effects? Every other game out there does them fine. I'm not asking for hyper realism, I'm asking for something different and a new gameplay aspect.

I was meaning atmospheric effects as in rain and clouds and their coloration. I didn't seem to make that clear. I've landed on plenty of atmospheric worlds, yet be interesting if there was some actual clouds, some fog, a bit of rain. Other engines seem to handle it, and even a basic implementation would be welcome.

And no making parts of the universe more dangerous would not drive players away - the status quo shows they have already been driven away. Arc up the difficulty in the low sec space in the bubble and leave the great expanse as is.
 

aRJay

aRJay
aclout said:
Re gas giants: How hard are basic fog effects? Every other game out there does them fine. I'm not asking for hyper realism, I'm asking for something different and a new gameplay aspect.

I was meaning atmospheric effects as in rain and clouds and their coloration. I didn't seem to make that clear. I've landed on plenty of atmospheric worlds, yet be interesting if there was some actual clouds, some fog, a bit of rain. Other engines seem to handle it, and even a basic implementation would be welcome.

And no making parts of the universe more dangerous would not drive players away - the status quo shows they have already been driven away. Arc up the difficulty in the low sec space in the bubble and leave the great expanse as is.
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Currently the worlds we have access to have about as much atmosphere as Mars does in real life. Rain clouds and fog need something a lot less vacuum like to form.
 

varonica

varonica
aclout said:
Re gas giants: How hard are basic fog effects? Every other game out there does them fine. I'm not asking for hyper realism, I'm asking for something different and a new gameplay aspect.

I was meaning atmospheric effects as in rain and clouds and their coloration. I didn't seem to make that clear. I've landed on plenty of atmospheric worlds, yet be interesting if there was some actual clouds, some fog, a bit of rain. Other engines seem to handle it, and even a basic implementation would be welcome.

And no making parts of the universe more dangerous would not drive players away - the status quo shows they have already been driven away. Arc up the difficulty in the low sec space in the bubble and leave the great expanse as is.
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That's the entire point isn't it? FDEV prides itself on the accuracy of its planetary simulation, and you want, basically, a bodge job, something so poor and crappy that most players who play ED because of it's accuracy to detail would laugh like hyenas, you want something like SC's gas giant, tell you what, go and play SC and see how good that works! Properly simulating a planet is way more than just basic fog effects, if you think that's all it takes to simulate a gas giant atmosphere then maybe you are playing the wrong game.

If you want to increase the player base you need to start with something that won't actually drive existing players away, I play ED because of their attention to detail, proper orbital mechanics for entire solar systems, proper scaling and placement of bodies and atmosphere, they start bodging like you want I may as go and play NMS because that's what we will end up with!
 

Tzeff [NL]

Tzeff [NL]
DjVortex said:
The game needs more to do, not less. You don't make the game more appealing by reducing the amount of work to reach the end goal.

With this I don't mean that they should increase the amount of grind. What I am saying is that reducing the amount of grind is unlikely to bring in new players and/or keep existing players from leaving.

The "let's make the game easier / let's make it easier to gather resources and earn all the cool stuff" is your archetypal dying-MMORPG tactic. Many an MMORPG started strong, then players started leaving in droves over the years and, in order to try to combat this, the developers decreased the difficulty levels and requirements of most things in a misguided and vain attempt at stopping people from leaving and/or allure new players to join. It never works.

You don't save a dying game by making it easier. You save it by adding new exciting stuff for people to do.
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Are you suggesting even MORE GRIND??? Example grind for 8 years to achieve ONE goal??? o_O
 

LuxDez

LuxDez
How to bring players back:
Do at least something to do after farming.
Trade dependent on players - I would like it.
I would like a crafting system that would allow for activities such as mining and trading.
Maybe balanced improvements for engineers that will allow them to try something new and interesting in battle? - very interesting.

The problem is that the game is sold as an online project, but there are no mechanics for interaction between players. The maximum is to feel like Billy Herrington, who fills up the tank for another man.
 

LuxDez

LuxDez
SteveWW57 said:
Tell that to all those peaceful types sent to the rebuy screen by the ones who make that their gameplay of choice.

Steve
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Very witty. NPCs can do this too.
You understand perfectly well that the only real interaction between players in the game is refueling.

You cannot give ammunition to an ally to affect the logistics of the battle.
You cannot repair ally modules.
You can't do anything that would affect the gameplay of other players.
Just fill it up.
And you know what I mean.
Of course, you can hack the hold, but you will find that it is not there, because people in the open fly on pvp builds.

But it’s better to cackle about how you took the situation out of context.
 

LuxDez

LuxDez
Rat Catcher said:
Define interaction?

The others I play along with appear to have plenty of interaction on offer.
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Try to replenish someone's ammunition so that your ally does not fly to the station.
Try fixing the modules.
Try trading resources.
Try passing any module.

If your friends suggest any of this, then they are blatantly lying.
The list can be really long, but it’s easier to write down what’s available.
Trade in goods and refueling. You can also restore shields. This can be used if your friend is shooting fuel, then you can increase his ammunition.
Randomness that can be used.
 

Kayvan

Kayvan
Anecdotal:
About 2 years ago I started an Alt. Granted, I vowed to take my time with it and not rush it. (I did rush my Main with R2R and Mining and skipped most ships along the way, then proceeded to unlock engineers following a guide for efficiency, and so on). I also don't play as much with it as with my Main. Currently I have about 180 hours logged I think. What "not rushing" gets you in that time:
  • a total asset value of 240 mil, biggest ship a Python (not even fitted yet)
  • a handful of engineers unlocked, just returned from my 5000ly trip to unlock Palin. Who can't do anything for me right now because I don't have the manufactured and encoded mats for G4/5 thrusters. I have the Raws because I stopped on the way back in HIP-somethingorother where all those rare mats grow in crystal shards. So I basically gave up on the "no shortcuts" resolution.

Ofc that also means that several other engineers are still locked. So I am still MILES away from fitting and engineering my first real combat ship. So far all I can do combat-wise is tagging along with some system security forces in a RES and mooch bounties without really contributing to the outcome of the battle. HazRES NPCs are way too hard for my equipment, let alone CZs.

What I'm trying to say is: if your motivation to play ED is as a space combat game, and you don't make extensive use of community resources, you probably get frustrated way, way sooner than 200 hours in. I honestly can't imagine how anyone would play their way all the way through the engineering grind without ever using a mat loop or similar fasttrack.

This also has to do with what I called survivor bias further up: the whole shipbuilding thing and engineering - as in, designing builds and then seeing how well they work in practice - is right up my alley. I love it. Best part of the game for me (including blowing stuff up with those builds ofc). The grind to get there, I do not enjoy, but accept as "necessary" evil. But I also know quite a few (ex) players who simply refuse to go through that.
 

LuxDez

LuxDez
Kayvan said:
The grind to get there, I do not enjoy, but accept as "necessary" evil.
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Main question:
What's next?
While grinding, you try everything the game has to offer.
Beagle Point? - there is nothing there.
Thargoids? - interesting for a week. Let's not mention the people who spent hundreds of hours on guardian weapons that are useless in actual content.

The endgame is empty, in an online game whose mechanics are made exclusively for single-player play.
 

aRJay

aRJay
LuxDez said:
Very witty. NPCs can do this too.
You understand perfectly well that the only real interaction between players in the game is refueling.

You cannot give ammunition to an ally to affect the logistics of the battle.
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True.
LuxDez said:
You cannot repair ally modules.
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Repair limpets? Healing Beams?

LuxDez said:
You can't do anything that would affect the gameplay of other players.
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Wrong.

LuxDez said:
Just fill it up.
And you know what I mean.
Of course, you can hack the hold, but you will find that it is not there, because people in the open fly on pvp builds.

But it’s better to cackle about how you took the situation out of context.
Click to expand...
 
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