The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The higher claims are coming from exactly the same point where you say they don't have claims.

The "mine/yours" is ok, but stll remains subjective... you see it as public space, they don't: there's no absolute term (btw your argument is right, and I mostly agree with your points).

And just so we're clear: My post was deliberatively provocative, I don't actually go around and mess up other people's BGS. Mostly because I hardly do much besides fight the war these days.

My point: People should stop laying claims and then complain that the rules don't enforce their claims. The game is going to be ten years old this year, PP is going to be a nine year old failure. People need to get comfortable with the fact that, in their precious BGS or PP work, there are factors that are out of their hands, and that's not going to change.

And that's why this thread exists . To go around that neverending circle of "but if open only!!!! - Nah, not going to change."

 

[Darrack]

I don't think think I'd apply the 'muppet' designation to people mutually enjoying a game well within the bounds of the game's rules either.

It may be well within the games rules but seriuosly parking ships in a mail slot to stop folks entering? It wasn't really a blockade was it, it was just a few folks ruining things for others - Muppets.
Ive said before, i play Solo otherwise my block list would end up being stupid and that affects you folks in Open, if you have no issues with me blocking said muppets, no worries i will fly in Open.

O7

 

[alexzk]

That's what I said... ye like "frustration" of "risk of being frustrated" drives players' choices (to a certain extent).

Maybe. I just want fair rules. If they can enforce me to take the fight, i want be able to enforce them....let's say - dig void opals for 5 hours. Or spawn em in Colonia (with that "pvp" ship).

 

[Morbad]

It may be well within the games rules but seriuosly parking ships in a mail slot to stop folks entering? It wasn't really a blockade was it, it was just a few folks ruining things for others - Muppets.

The slot, even the docking barrel, were never intended to be wholly safe places (there is highly asymmetric combat, in the docking barrel, featured in the official Beta trailer that sold me on the game). Those locations, as the last opportunities to intercept someone before they can dock, are more than fair game for a blockade.

Anyone using any kind of cheat to circumvent station defenses should be banned, and the game has never really treated station defense, nor the consequences for crime, sufficiently seriously, but that doesn't make attacking one's enemies, wherever one finds them problematic behavior, IMO.

Ive said before, i play Solo otherwise my block list would end up being stupid and that affects you folks in Open, if you have no issues with me blocking said muppets, no worries i will fly in Open.

I would never suggest anyone play in a mode that isn't conducive to the sort of gameplay they want to experience.

I just want fair rules. If they can enforce me to take the fight, i want be able to enforce them....let's say - dig void opals for 5 hours. Or spawn em in Colonia (with that "pvp" ship).

Such rules would neither be more fair nor internally consistent.

Most of the complaints here, when they don't reference illicit behavior like cheating, aren't really about fairness. They are about subjectively undesirable gameplay undermining the utility or effectiveness of desired gameplay. The game is 'fair' as is; pretty much everyone has similar opportunities, similar potential to achieve, or fail, per man-hour invested. A lot of bad gameplay is entirely fair.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

This gets watered down a bit in the swamp between BGS and powerplay, but I'd argue it's not "your backyard". It's a public area you have adopted as "your backyard". I don't care. I fly wherever I want and do whatever I want whenever I want to in whatever mode I fancy at the moment. This might align with someones BGS play at the time, or run against it. I don't care. If you do, fill your bucket faster. I know the BGS and PP people think they have some higher claim than those who don't do BGS or PP, but they don't.

The higher claims are coming from exactly the same point where you say they don't have claims.

The "mine/yours" is ok, but stll remains subjective... you see it as public space, they don't: there's no absolute term (btw your argument is right, and I mostly agree with your points).

And just so we're clear: My post was deliberatively provocative, I don't actually go around and mess up other people's BGS. Mostly because I hardly do much besides fight the war these days.

My point: People should stop laying claims and then complain that the rules don't enforce their claims. The game is going to be ten years old this year, PP is going to be a nine year old failure. People need to get comfortable with the fact that, in their precious BGS or PP work, there are factors that are out of their hands, and that's not going to change.

Going to an extreme example; CEC eliminated access to permit issuing faction for a time, allegedly because they didn't like Cmdrs looking to obtain the permit messing up 'their systems'. There was some attempt by Cmdrs to make the permit available again though this failed and Fdev became involved deploying megaships to ensure access to permits.
Factions may be able to derive some benefit from a system but don't have the authority to deny access to Cmdrs.

 

[alexzk]

Most of the complaints here, when they don't reference illicit behavior like cheating, aren't really about fairness. They are about subjectively undesirable gameplay undermining the utility or effectiveness of desired gameplay. The game is 'fair' as is; pretty much everyone has similar opportunities, similar potential to achieve, or fail, per man-hour invested. A lot of bad gameplay is entirely fair.

Not really.
I repeat meself 5th time I think
When I play open this does not mean I want PVP. This means I want to meet random people. I don't even want to communicate with them in most cases. Just to see something alive and fancy painted.
Now, when somebody enforces me to PVP, either way If I have prepared ship or I don't I lose my fun. Even if I win I lose my fun, because my intention was not pvp. So with any option - I lost something - time/fun/ship/etc.
Now, If I escape - he had his fun interdicting me, if he kills me - he has his fun, if we fight - he has his fun.
So that's not fair - aggressor always gets fun while victim - not. There is no way to punish aggressor now except block list. Anything else you do - he gets reward, not punishment.

 

[Morbad]

So that's not fair

Having unreasonable standards does not make the game unfair. Open cannot be your personal fish tank.

 

[alexzk]

Having unreasonable standards does not make the game unfair. Open cannot be your personal fish tank.

Yes, that what I said couple posts above. PVPers aggressively took open. It's their fish tank now
If they keep doing such threads, that may mean they're out of fish.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Going to an extreme example; CEC eliminated access to permit issuing faction for a time, allegedly because they didn't like Cmdrs looking to obtain the permit messing up 'their systems'. There was some attempt by Cmdrs to make the permit available again though this failed and Fdev became involved deploying megaships to ensure access to permits.
Factions may be able to derive some benefit from a system but don't have the authority to deny access to Cmdrs.

I remember that, that was one of the not so great examples of BGS groups thinking it's "their backyard". It helped form my opinion on BGS claims .

 

[Keloot]

dont get why people just dont block them .. better yet just do a name list and pass it around ..

btw if that is not alowed then i find it weird that gankers can have lists for people to logout or just streamer lists and streamsnip them .

anyways removing pvp is pointless in this game. and it breaks immersion and pvp piracy

 

[Riverside]

dont get why people just dont block them .. better yet just do a name list and pass it around ..

btw if that is not alowed then i find it weird that gankers can have lists for people to logout or just streamer lists and streamsnip them .

anyways removing pvp is pointless in this game. and it breaks immersion and pvp piracy

Naming & shaming isn't allowed on this forum (it is allowed elsewhere) so you won't see a list of Cmdr names to block here. (For clarity my block list is empty & I don't condone blocking, but play how you like ).

I agree that removing PvP is pointless, imo the solution is to get past that roadblock rather than forever trying to avoid it but I understand there are many players that don't want to have to compromise their game.

 

[varonica]

Naming & shaming isn't allowed on this forum (it is allowed elsewhere) so you won't see a list of Cmdr names to block here. (For clarity my block list is empty & I don't condone blocking, but play how you like ).

I agree that removing PvP is pointless, imo the solution is to get past that roadblock rather than forever trying to avoid it but I understand there are many players that don't want to have to compromise their game.

Yeah I never block anyone either, but for the record since 2015 I think I have been attacked maybe 3 or 4 times by other players, so for my play style it's just not an issue I encounter.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Going to an extreme example; CEC eliminated access to permit issuing faction for a time, allegedly because they didn't like Cmdrs looking to obtain the permit messing up 'their systems'. There was some attempt by Cmdrs to make the permit available again though this failed and Fdev became involved deploying megaships to ensure access to permits.
Factions may be able to derive some benefit from a system but don't have the authority to deny access to Cmdrs.

I read about that story appearing on Inara/Reddit etc. no idea about it ended up tho.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This thread refers: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/peregrina-aristocrats.588941/

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This debate has been going on for 10 years and will never end.

I'm not a fan of forums with too strict or arbitrary rules, but in this case, after all this time, i'd totally be in favour of bans for anyone starting an open vs solo debate, and possible the delivery of a custard pie to the face.

 

[Rebel Yell]

This debate has been going on for 10 years and will never end.

I'm not a fan of forums with too strict or arbitrary rules, but in this case, after all this time, i'd totally be in favour of bans for anyone starting an open vs solo debate, and possible the delivery of a custard pie to the face.

Ah no, next step will argue about an emergent divide between peasants (in solo/PG because can't afford a rebuy) and billionaries (in open as they can afford many rebuys).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Ah no, next step will argue about an emergent divide between peasants (in solo/PG because can't afford a rebuy) and billionaries (in open as they can afford many rebuys).

Still sounds like an open vs solo debate

 

[alexzk]

Ah no, next step will argue about an emergent divide between peasants (in solo/PG because can't afford a rebuy) and billionaries (in open as they can afford many rebuys).

Hmm ...I'm more about my time wasted to fulfill randoms' desires.

 

[Hanerib]

I'm personally quite fine with the current system and use all modes. Exploration data can be sold anywhere, and ship can be changed upon returning to the bubble. Interacting with bgs can be done in all sorts of interesting ways, and is more entertaining when done in a specific build. Chance encounters provide observations about ship capabilities. I can appreciate time and energy spent in solo. Sometimes I want to do an AX zone without seeing anyone, evacuate refugees, collect materials, read logs, in solo mode. Not really into discourses about what is fair, it is what it is. So, therefore player groups usually define their preferred methods of conducting business.

PS: That Peregrina thing looked fun. It's a nice system.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

This is the only warning I'm going to give about being derogatory to people with opposing views. It's is completely out of order to claim people are simple minded just because they have a view or opinion that is opposite to yours. Especially when you have literally nothing to prove what mode people are playing in. Not being able to see someone does not mean they're not playing in Open.

It has been a long time since I was dragged back into this thread, and I don't enjoy reading the pettiness. So let's act more civil towards each other please.

I need to take issue with this. A simple minded take doesn't imply a simple minded person. Such a take can be used e.g. to develop a hypothesis, but when it reads like a purposeful oversimplification in order to bait then it's likely to be called out - as in "you're smarter than this so you're either trolling or you're not applying your intelligence". Is it not okay for people to defend themselves against that? "Overly simplistic" would have been a better wording in a somewhat heated context, sure. I'll calculate better in future.