Why are HazRes sites so *safe* these days?

[Scoob]

Hey all,

I remember when a HazRes was a pretty risky place to be. I had a decent enough ship, but would ultimately be chased off by Pirates ganging up on me. Through the course of combat, I'd annoy one (or more) Pirate factions sufficiently, that they'd be hostile and after me the most they jumped in. Fun. I like running away because it means I've been challenged. Having a robust ship so I can take a few hits is cool too. There's something about limping back to the dock to cash in bounties, and still being in profit after repairs and refit.

For the past year+ my traditional HazRes sites (Currently in LHS 317) are all tame. While there are still no Security ships, these instances are predominantly populated with "Federal Agents" who often mop up and pirates before I can get close. It's boring now. The game is self policing. Gone are the days of the "waves of Pirates" gameplay. Shame.

Now, of course I can load up with cargo and MAGICALLY there might then be lots of Pirates, that's the way to exploit things. However, most of my fun "combat only" small or medium ships don't have cargo, cos that's not what they're for.

I've posted on this before, a couple of years ago now, as I'd had a break from the game and returned to HazRes sites being a shadow of their former selves. My return to the game recently sees that nothing has changed. I've checked out numerous HazRes hunting locations I'd bookmarked around the bubble, but all seemed to be the same.

Visiting these sites for a short play session can often result in there being nothing to do as there simply aren't the volume of wanted ships, just dozens of Federal Agents. Any pirates that do appear, well, they appear some distance from me and are often overwhelmed by the bored Feds seconds after they appear.

Why is there such a high Federal Agent (or their equivalents) in HazRes sites?

Side note: popping to a HazRes for a bit of therapeutic pew pew for an hour was a staple for me any my regular Wing mate. Never a huge challenge - robust ship builds so you can escape, or just bring one of the big three if you just want a really easy time of it - but certainly stimulating fun in a smaller ship. Great for when you have just a small window to play.

Are other's finding this is the case? Perhaps I've just been unlucky and all my old haunts are now infested with good guys lol.

 

[Kayvan]

idk, what time frame are we talking about here? I've played ED since a bit over 3 years now, and until very recently I have never been attacked unprovoked in a HazRES. Yesterday there was such an occasion, where an NPC and I were heading towards each other to get a scan, and he just started shooting at me even though I had no cargo. But otherwise, in the last 3 years anyone who shot at me only did so after I attacked them or their wingmates first.
And I used to farm systems with missions and so on until the pirates were thoroughly ed at me - faction status "Hostile" - but still they didn't attack me first in a RES. Maybe sent a single assassin (or wing) after me who then caught me at a RES, but that's different. Especially as that hostility was created solely through running missions against them, not from pew-pewing in a RES as such.

That said, when you pop into a RES and the instance is generated, sometimes you're lucky and there'll be lots of Anacondas and Pythons, and sometimes you'll be unlucky and there's me only a mix of agents, miners and tiny pirate ships (eagles, adders and such crap).
Also yesterday, when I popped into the Haz (in the current CG system) the first time it was the latter, i.e. only clean ships and some gnats, then I waked out, turned around, dropped in again, and the new instance was a lot better, with a steady stream of Pythons and Clippers, with a Conda dropped into the mix every 10 minutes or so. So that was quite fine for me being there by myself.

 

[metatheurgist]

Fed Agents are a Powerplay mess. They (and the other PP hunters) turn up anywhere within a power's sphere of influence. One way to avoid them would be to find a RES not in a power bubble.

That said I don't recall them hunting normal pirates before.

 

[SlickPBW]

I don’t know if it’s a bug or intentional but a contributing factor is that npc wings don’t all aggro simultaneously any more. They aggro one at a time unless you shoot more than one at a time. I can’t think of a reason that this would be intentional because: isn’t that THE reason for wings? To fight together for mutual support and survivability? I guess it’s possible that some young fragile commanders convinced FD that npc wing were too hard, but I never saw this listed as an intentional change in patch notes.

And to the other point, yes, there is a current bug where you can get an unwarranted attack by an npc, who may even be “clean”, and shooting even this clean & hostile npc who shot you first will still give you wanted status and bounty, etc. This is clearly an annoying bug.

 

[Danieros]

These Powerplay NPCs have always spawned in RES, they are not a new thing. For a cleaner experience you can look for a system that is not powerplay controlled/exploited.

That said, HazRes aren't the highest threat levels out there. For a more challenging experience I believe you can try "Pirate Activity Detected" signal sources in Civil Unrest systems.

 

[Schmack]

There's plenty action in a HazRES site, but basically no NPC just shoots indiscriminately (other than the bug that's still around). They only shoot if you have cargo and refuse to pony up, or you're listed as hostile and even then maybe not.

If you want to see how "safe" a HazRES is, go there with cargo. I've gone into sites that are somewhat empty and ones that are very full. It's a bit of potluck.

 

[Schattenmacher]

Why are HazRes sites so safe these days?

Short answer: I was there before you.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Why is there such a high Federal Agent (or their equivalents) in HazRes sites?

Because you're only going to hazres sites in Hudson's controlled areas. Go elsewhere.

Fed agents aren't cops and they don't particularly care about people breaking the law. They act just like pirates except they're not wanted (by default - they can become wanted if they attack you and you're not pledged to an enemy power).

 

[Greybeard Seawolf]

As has been mentioned for a while now NPC wings are bugged, as in they only go hostile one at a time unless you fire at more than one of them. I was in a HazRes most of the day today and despite having no cargo bar limpets I was attacked by numerous NPC's. It seemed to me that they were randomly firing as they approached for a scan and if they hit me they would go hostile and attack without further provocation.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

As has been mentioned for a while now NPC wings are bugged, as in they only go hostile one at a time unless you fire at more than one of them. I was in a HazRes most of the day today and despite having no cargo bar limpets I was attacked by numerous NPC's. It seemed to me that they were randomly firing as they approached for a scan and if they hit me they would go hostile and attack without further provocation.

Presumably this is the same bug as seen in assassination missions where non of the targets wingmates help at all.

 

[Scoob]

Thanks for the replies all.

I've been going to a HazRes site in LHS 317 for years, my Carrier is based there, parked pretty close by. These "Federal Agents" haven't always been a thing, but I cannot recall when I started seeing them. Time sorta flew through COVID, so my sense is distorted...

To be 100% clear. I visit a HazRes and it's got loads of "Federal Agents" flying around. These Federal Agents follow other ships around, just like Security ships do in regular Res sites, seemingly scan them, then shoot if they are a Pirate. They act just like local Security ships. They scan me quite frequently too, and they give a "disappointed pirate" style message when I'm carrying nothing. If I am carrying something, they do nothing, they don't ask me to drop it or anything.

Also, when I mentioned previously encountering already hostile ships, I'm NOT talking about something bug-related. Basically, the Faction in question had grown to hate me sufficiently as I'd kill loads of their Faction while bounty hunting. Simple as that. Large killing spree = rep drop with the Faction I'm killing = they spawn in already hostile after a while. Not seen that in a while, but then I've not played much... as there's very little to do...with all those Feds.

Bottom line: This exact HazRes, as well as several others I have bookmarked within the Bubble, now spawn dozens of "Federal Agents" (or non-Fed equivalent name that I cannot recall, "Imperial Agent" or something like that perhaps) that can be seen proactively hunting Wanted NPC's in the instance. They regularly outnumber the "pirates", and tend to clump together into a large group, which kills any Wanted ships quite quickly. Things did not use to be like this, when I first started Bounty Hunting here.

So, my point remains, HazRes sites (that I've visited) all feel so safe now. I will try further afield, if I'm so inclined, but all these Federal Agents are just plain annoying. I mean, the GAME is spawning in non-police/security ships that hunt all the Wanted ships in an instance. Pointless me even showing up.

Look, I know there are other options for bounty hunting, but HazRes sites used to be consistently a fun level of challenge in a smaller ship. That's been taken away.

If anyone would like to recommend a HazRes they've flown in recently that doesn't have swarms of Federal Agents (or equivalent) please share. Perhaps I've just been unlucky with the dozen or so I've visited. Not too far from LHS 317 if at all possible... don't want to move the Carrier and any Combat ships have fairly short jump ranges.

Note: I don't know if there's an NPC cap in such instances, but sometimes there's nothing but Federal Agents and the odd legitimate Miner.

 

[Hellrider]

I don't know, when haz res were dangerous places, but for me- they werent even at 2018. Pirates dont attack first, if you havent cargo they dont care, and even if you fight with them- they arent dangerous at all, if you dont try fight with whole wings in something like small ship/unengineered ships.

Also, federal agents are powerplay npcs, so if you started seeing them in last months it simply means, that this system just was concuqred by some federal power. If you dont like PP npcs (like me, I feel that instances with them have much less other npcs, so pirates too) move to another place. And if it caused by that- no. Nothing was "taken away". Bubble has 20.000 colonised systems.

 

[Darth Ender]

haz res sites to me (and i've been bounty hunting in them since they were introduced) were always just like regular rez sites but without cops. No more or less difficult...unless you were actually mining in them and had cargo. Then i guess they'd be more difficult since you dont have cops.
npcs dont attack unprovoked ...they dont do anything surprising.

What would be nice is if haz res sites were actually made extremely dangerous. prehaps for every pirate a player kills, the chance of a contingent of buddies spawning increases. If you kill those buddies, then the chance increases even more and buddies showing up occurs more frequently. Overwhelming players and putting an end to their attempts to farm but the reward for killing the buddies and instigating this runaway feedback loop is much higher than normal.
Kind of like a gauntlet test. Where you risk being killed significantly more but the reward is worth it. You'd just need to code in the ability to save the state of this gauntlet test so players can't combat log. Have it scale to how many players are in the same instance too...so it becomes harder if you have helpers.

 

[Sighman]

It's a bug, as others have stated. Wings of enemies line up to reply to your aggro one by one.

Hopefully this will be fixed on Monday.

 

[Scoob]

Perhaps there are gameplay reasons these sites are so lame now, but it doesn't change the fact that they are lame, vs. what they once were. Let's break it down, then (whenever it was, I take frequent long breaks from the game) vs. how it is now.

Then: I'd enter a HazRes and know I'm on my own (or just me and my buddy) so I'd need to be mindful of the targets I pick - no going after that Anaconda group while I'm in my Sidewinder. Lone Anaconda, yes, but an Anaconda with other ships or Fighter support, perhaps not. That ship's friends WILL go hostile and attack me the moment any of them take fire.

Now: I've regularly engaged one of a group of ships, and that ship's buddies (the ones winged up with him) regularly just ignore me. They don't even go agro.

Then: I'd see multiple groups of Pirates roaming around, hassling Miners and the like, plenty of targets.

Now: I see the odd Pirate, but they're quickly overwhelmed by Feds.

Then: I'd frequently see fights in the distance and rush to engage, being a bit of a hero, saving that fleeing miner lol.

Now: The fight peters out before I get there, Feds taking care of any hostiles.

So, while the Feds presence may well have a legitimate reason. The shear number of them and their effectiveness, take away the fun from me. THEY have the most ships by far, THEY proactively hunt down pirates and THEY get most of the kills.

I'm often doing these HazRes instances in a smaller ship - I'm there for the fun of combat, not necessarily to be the most effective at it - but the Feds get there first.

Now, as previously mentioned, I can tempt in the Pirate (aka make more spawn in like magic) if I carry some cargo. I can cheese this by using mission cargo they can never get me to eject of course. That is NOT the point however. Extra Pirates spawning because the game knows I have cargo, is pure cheese. Indeed, when I've done this - deliberately bringing cargo - the previously plentiful Feds seem to vanish and I have a never-ending hoard of spawning pirates. ED becomes more tower-defence at that point. I large, tanky ships might have some fun - indeed, I do - and it's a good way to gather a load of manufactured materials. However, it doesn't lend its self to solid smaller ship vs. others combat. THAT is where the balance of HazRes sites used to be. The player is alone, or with a buddy, and will face Pirates, but the player has to scan and initiate combat, so we can pick our enemies. Fun and a challenge in a smaller ship. That's gone, I cannot get that gameplay any more, and I've been around several of my previously bookmarked favourite HazRes sites.

If motivated to do so, I will go further afield, perhaps find some new (to me) HazRes sites to see if that gameplay experience still exists somewhere. I just used to love that prior balance as I was in control. I could choose my targets and make things as challenging as I wanted. That's gone now, at least in the half-dozen or so HazRes sites I've visited recently. I turn up and there's nothing for me to do. I might get the odd assist kill with the Feds, but that fun one-on-one combat vs. an NPC in a "better" ship, or indeed, a small group of ships, is gone.

I'll try again, perhaps after the next update, and see how things go. I'll then explore further and try some new locations, hopefully the gameplay we (my buddy and I) have enjoyed so much is still out there.

Currently, the various HazRes sites I visit ARE much safer than any HighRes in the same system. However, that said, the game does appear to react to what you bring to the instance. Cargo? Magically spawning Pirates and those Feds are suddenly rare. Mining ship? Similar situation. Combat ship? Few Pirates, dozens of Feds. Jumping in and out over the play session, there's a definite pattern of the game adapting to the player and not in a fun way.

I recall our (my wingmate and I) early days of HazRes sites. We'd play the system. He, at the time, was a lower rank than me, neither of us had really done that much engineering. However, we knew that if HE arrived first (so the instance was "his" so to speak) we'd get far lower-level and easier Pirates spawned. We exploited that so he could gain experience. He soon got to be far better at combat than his rank would suggest, better ship, more engineering. At that point we'd ensure that I entered the instance first, as my higher rank ensured tougher enemies would spawn. Of course, years later, we've both been Elite in Combat for ages, so it matters not who arrives first.

Anyway, HazRes sites - certainly all the ones we visit regularly - are different to what they once were. Easier in many regards, due to all those Feds, but the game can still be seen reacting based on what the player has brought along, making things pretty predicable.

 

[Screemonster]

Through the course of combat, I'd annoy one (or more) Pirate factions sufficiently, that they'd be hostile and after me the most they jumped in. Fun.

This is probably because for some reason anarchy factions will go "oh he had a bounty on him? Well I guess you were justified killing our friend" if you kill them, same as lawful factions.

If anarchists gave you the same rep-hit per kill for bounty hunting as lawful factions do for murder, the game would be a lot more interesting.

Of course then people would complain about getting shot on sight after farming the same anarchy base for materials fifteen times.

 

[Scoob]

This is probably because for some reason anarchy factions will go "oh he had a bounty on him? Well I guess you were justified killing our friend" if you kill them, same as lawful factions.

If anarchists gave you the same rep-hit per kill for bounty hunting as lawful factions do for murder, the game would be a lot more interesting.

Of course then people would complain about getting shot on sight after farming the same anarchy base for materials fifteen times.

Well, it's really quite simple, I killed enough of a certain faction that they hate me now. So, they'd spawn in already hostile. I was killing members of that faction because they were marked as "Wanted" in that system, perhaps that entire faction is wanted by whoever controls things.

 

[ebbrell]

i remember the days when you exited superC further way from station or land base.. the race to get within the 8km safe zone was a thing.
now we exit on top of the station way too near. in fact a chasing NPC will spawn when you are touching down on the pad, its like the time to spawn is based on old times it took to get near to station.

on high G planets, you can end up slamming into the ground as you exit to low and near to station, i also think fdev has stopped you over speeding on approach to planet as well.

ED has become the safest "dangerous" game ever, shame
old Elite would be dangerous and unforgiving, the same applied race to station for safety was a thing

 

[aRJay]

i remember the days when you exited superC further way from station or land base.. the race to get within the 8km safe zone was a thing.
now we exit on top of the station way too near. in fact a chasing NPC will spawn when you are touching down on the pad, its like the time to spawn is based on old times it took to get near to station.

on high G planets, you can end up slamming into the ground as you exit to low and near to station, i also think fdev has stopped you over speeding on approach to planet as well.

ED has become the safest "dangerous" game ever, shame
old Elite would be dangerous and unforgiving, the same applied race to station for safety was a thing

Well up until yesterday you could still overspeed on the approach to a planet (I do it far too often), still downloading/syncing so that might have changed now.

 

[Scoob]

I logged in after today's update and went to the usual HazRes in LHS 317. The experience was vastly different to what's been the norm for ages now. Sure, there were still Federal Agents in the instance, but hardly any. There were, however, LOTS of Pirates / Wanted ships, plenty of Miners getting harrassed by said Pirates and MINIMAL interference from the Feds.

Basically, based on my experience this evening, it looks like HazRes sites are back and NOT just full of roaming Feds any more. This is good. Not read the update notes, don't know if this was a listed change.