Black Market Question

[khaos526]

I've finally gone back to doing some trading for something different (and on the rare occasion, I'm back in the bubble to do it). So I've come across times where I might have to deliver some Onionhead or Imperial Slaves, etc to another Anarchy style system. I've been using Inara now since it's the only one I think that's still functioning. The issue is I think it only will show legal systems to trade goods in and not factor in black market prices. I do use EDMarketConnector, but again I think it only updates the commodities and not black market prices

My question is, is there any place I can get a listing of Black Market prices at all? Sometime I think I could make more from some of the goods that are deemed illegal in some systems selling them on the black market possibily. But without visiting random ones, it's not very efficient to make a few extra credits. So just wondering if there is a site that has upto date Blackmarket prices at all?

An no I don't need the credits per se, I just like that enhanced risk invovled in smuggling as I used to do when I first started the game at launch and bought my first Python with it a decade ago...

 

[Eahlstan]

There's nothing that provides black market data in a way that is useable by third party tools.

 

[GroG79]

Black Markets are around -25% off the normal prices. You can use this for stolen stuff. It is not so useful for illegal stuff as that price is not listed in the market

System states influence BM prices like they do in the regular market. Another example: A systen in war will want to buy more illegal (weapons) from the BM for higher price

 

[Marra Morgan]

This is something I've always liked about the black markets; it works on your own personal knowledge of where to sell, not something you can quickly look up. They fluctuate depending on supply, demand, govt type and the state they are in, and can deliver great short term profit if you're paying attention.

 

[Jmanis]

Black Markets are around -25% off the normal prices. You can use this for stolen stuff. It is not so useful for illegal stuff as that price is not listed in the market

System states influence BM prices like they do in the regular market. Another example: A systen in war will want to buy more illegal (weapons) from the BM for higher price

No, they finally fixed that bug thank god...

Stolen goods are -25%
Illegal (not stolen) goods are +...5%? Some small amount.

 

[khaos526]

Ok thanks everyone for helping me clear that up then...

 

[sidereal6]

Illegal (not stolen) goods are +...5%? Some small amount.

I don’t want to unbalance anything, but I feel like illegal goods (stolen or not) should be closer to +100 BUT if you get scanned, the goods are confiscated somehow (maybe troops meet your ship) plus a hefty fine. If you’re scanned and get away, that should be a warrant (so that you can’t land)

There could be some fun gameplay here, especially for new players with small ships, but currently it’s not worth anyone’s time.

There’s some skill involved in getting into a surface base without being scanned. Flying straight in at max speed doesn’t always work. Dropping some distance from the port and waiting for the cops to get distracted by an NPC or to signal that they’re changing shift is a better plan.

That could be fun, if the payout was worth it.

 

[Jmanis]

I don’t want to unbalance anything, but I feel like illegal goods (stolen or not) should be closer to +100 BUT if you get scanned, the goods are confiscated somehow (maybe troops meet your ship) plus a hefty fine. If you’re scanned and get away, that should be a warrant (so that you can’t land)

There could be some fun gameplay here, especially for new players with small ships, but currently it’s not worth anyone’s time.

There’s some skill involved in getting into a surface base without being scanned. Flying straight in at max speed doesn’t always work. Dropping some distance from the port and waiting for the cops to get distracted by an NPC or to signal that they’re changing shift is a better plan.

That could be fun, if the payout was worth it.

I agree, caveated by there needing to be risk.

Right now, black markets are best found in the lower security regions of space, and so there's minimal risk delivering there. Truth be told, smuggling anywhere is very low risk, but i digress.

How this should look is:

• stolen goods fetch the -25% debuff and are best sold in low security areas. Makes sense, they're hot goods and nobody wants them.
• illegal should be +0, up to +100, depending on whetted you sell them.

Elaborating, illegal goods pay best where the clientele is rich and security is strong, because that makes the goods scarce... as opposed to where security is lax and therefore goods readily available, or worse, a poor clientele. Maybe that gets connected to economic state...

But either way... smuggling into a low security democracy in the civil liberty state should pay fairly low risk, low reward. But smuggling into a high security Dictatorship in lockdown should pay through the nose, but have a high chance of outright death.

 

[khaos526]

I agree, caveated by there needing to be risk.

Right now, black markets are best found in the lower security regions of space, and so there's minimal risk delivering there. Truth be told, smuggling anywhere is very low risk, but i digress.

How this should look is:

• stolen goods fetch the -25% debuff and are best sold in low security areas. Makes sense, they're hot goods and nobody wants them.
• illegal should be +0, up to +100, depending on whetted you sell them.

Elaborating, illegal goods pay best where the clientele is rich and security is strong, because that makes the goods scarce... as opposed to where security is lax and therefore goods readily available, or worse, a poor clientele. Maybe that gets connected to economic state...

But either way... smuggling into a low security democracy in the civil liberty state should pay fairly low risk, low reward. But smuggling into a high security Dictatorship in lockdown should pay through the nose, but have a high chance of outright death.

See that's what I was expexting, so decided to smuggle narcotics into Abraham Station in Sol with my Cutter and I found I would have made more just hauling regular commodities around or Imperial Slaves from one system to another system they were legal in. I was pretty disappointed in that.
When Elite first came out, I was selling slaves via the black market and making a ton back then between two systems, that I'm not sure I could even remember anymore, but now it just seems the black market is just more for piracy than smuggling...

 

[Schmack]

Stolen goods are 100% profit (time aside). Purchased goods return just the profit from sale vs buy price. It makes sense that stolen goods don't fetch legal goods prices, however if those stolen goods are also illegal in the system (even if they weren't stolen), then the price should reflect a markup from normal legal market prices, but not as much as purchased illegal goods (mathematically less risk to the buyer to have illegal goods vs stolen and illegal goods, though maybe not to the ED law). The profit to the one running illegal/stolen goods would be much better than someone smuggling in purchased illegal goods even though the route for smuggling would be easier to sustain long term.

 

[Jmanis]

Stolen goods are 100% profit (time aside). Purchased goods return just the profit from sale vs buy price. It makes sense that stolen goods don't fetch legal goods prices, however if those stolen goods are also illegal in the system (even if they weren't stolen), then the price should reflect a markup from normal legal market prices, but not as much as purchased illegal goods (mathematically less risk to the buyer to have illegal goods vs stolen and illegal goods, though maybe not to the ED law). The profit to the one running illegal/stolen goods would be much better than someone smuggling in purchased illegal goods even though the route for smuggling would be easier to sustain long term.

That creates an interesting consideration i hadn't thought about... distinguishing the factors leading to detection of stolen vs illegal goods.

Like, iirc the lore is that all cargo cans are uniquely tagged, so if you're in possession of one that doesn't belong to you, that can be tracked.

Meanwhile , illicit goods would be in a properly coded cargo can... so it must be some form of content scanning.

If that distinction were made more explicit in game terms, you could cover stolen with one counter method, illegal with another, and stolen illegal needing both methods.

 

[Schmack]

That creates an interesting consideration i hadn't thought about... distinguishing the factors leading to detection of stolen vs illegal goods.

Like, iirc the lore is that all cargo cans are uniquely tagged, so if you're in possession of one that doesn't belong to you, that can be tracked.

Meanwhile , illicit goods would be in a properly coded cargo can... so it must be some form of content scanning.

If that distinction were made more explicit in game terms, you could cover stolen with one counter method, illegal with another, and stolen illegal needing both methods.

Do you know of any illegal goods that can also be stolen via PvE?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Stolen goods are 100% profit (time aside).

"Time aside" is a lot of the problem, though. Because the game doesn't simulate cargo loading times for the legal route (and I've not heard any direct suggestions from players that it should!), almost any cargo is more profitable on a constant-time basis to transport rather than steal.

Of course, with the 25% price penalty, any cargo where the typical sale price is over four times the typical purchase price - and that's roughly half of them if you have a decent range of market states to choose from - is more profitable transported legally even if you have a way to teleport the full contents of a pirated ship's cargo hold instantly to your own without any possibility to resist, escape or fight and even if this method doesn't incur any legal penalties you might need to deal with later.


(Which is presumably why most NPC "pirates" are actually "shipping/mining destruction" - preventing the cargo reaching its intended destination is the key objective, being able to use any of it yourself afterwards is very secondary)

 

[Schmack]

"Time aside" is a lot of the problem, though. Because the game doesn't simulate cargo loading times for the legal route (and I've not heard any direct suggestions from players that it should!), almost any cargo is more profitable on a constant-time basis to transport rather than steal.

I consider time doing what I find entertaining to be profitable. So I don't consider that time required to disable ships, break hatches, collect cargo and sell to black markets to be a time sink. I suppose if you're strapped for credits you'd need to consider that. I don't like doing buy/sell trade runs more than a couple rounds. I do like stealing the stuff and selling it on the black market though, since the interactions can be different each time, or at least more variable than buy/sell routes.

Of course, with the 25% price penalty, any cargo where the typical sale price is over four times the typical purchase price - and that's roughly half of them if you have a decent range of market states to choose from - is more profitable transported legally even if you have a way to teleport the full contents of a pirated ship's cargo hold instantly to your own without any possibility to resist, escape or fight and even if this method doesn't incur any legal penalties you might need to deal with later.

This wasn't true when some ships were full of low temp diamonds and a good run would net half a billion profit. Probably true now though.

(Which is presumably why most NPC "pirates" are actually "shipping/mining destruction" - preventing the cargo reaching its intended destination is the key objective, being able to use any of it yourself afterwards is very secondary)

If that prevention was to affect market demand which drives up black market prices, that would be a pretty cool endeavor I could get interested in.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Do you know of any illegal goods that can also be stolen via PvE?

Hypothetically Narcotics, Tobacco and Alcohol are illegal in certain government types and would be carried by NPCs.
For myself I occasionally accrue items that I happened to encounter whilst in the SRV. Delaine space is usually good for disposing of these items.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I consider time doing what I find entertaining to be profitable. So I don't consider that time required to disable ships, break hatches, collect cargo and sell to black markets to be a time sink. I suppose if you're strapped for credits you'd need to consider that. I don't like doing buy/sell trade runs more than a couple rounds. I do like stealing the stuff and selling it on the black market though, since the interactions can be different each time, or at least more variable than buy/sell routes.

Oh, certainly, credits aren't everything. But piracy being a luxury occupation for the bored rich seems at least thematically wrong.

This wasn't true when some ships were full of low temp diamonds and a good run would net half a billion profit. Probably true now though.

Mined goods are a bit different - because of course they're also pure profit to the miner on a "time ignored" basis - and the pirate can get a significant bonus from the miner having concentrated a large number of them into a single location for the pirate to re-mine.

It's the market-sold ones where it really doesn't work.

 

[Planewalker]

Elaborating, illegal goods pay best where the clientele is rich and security is strong, because that makes the goods scarce... as opposed to where security is lax and therefore goods readily available, or worse, a poor clientele. Maybe that gets connected to economic state...

Fdev let's gooooo!

Oh, certainly, credits aren't everything. But piracy being a luxury occupation for the bored rich seems at least thematically wrong.

While the BGS may be more for mid-game players, one can earn a fair sum doing piracy when starting out as long as a wakescanner is onboard.

 

[Schmack]

Fdev let's gooooo!


While the BGS may be more for mid-game players, one can earn a fair sum doing piracy when starting out as long as a wakescanner is onboard.

The "starting out" part though might make the odds of having a wake scanner pretty low. If you created a new account and started out again with the knowledge of a seasoned commander but the resources of a neophyte, you'd likely build more efficiently.

 

[Jmanis]

Do you know of any illegal goods that can also be stolen via PvE?

Heaps. Narcotics, nerve agents battle weapons/ personal weapons, slaves... and then there's one's like Felix mentioned

(Heh, if you wanted to go down that path... technically all food can be illegal too, when the target station is in Outbreak)

 

[Dragsham]

If I sell stolen goods to my anarchy factions black market will this lower my factions influence?